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ABF | after looking at earnings, can we swap Judy, etc with SAIA?

Dracula said:
I doubt that Saia is big enough to negotiate a no weekly co-pay,
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That weekly co-pay does not go to the insurance company(s), it goes directly into the pocket of your employer. Your employer gets a bill for healthcare, it is not segregated by employer's share/employee's share. Don't you see that?
 
BIG R GUY said:
30 years ago, probably 60-70 percent of ltl was unionized. Now, we are looking at probably less than 10 percent. If any of the remaining union companies went on strike, it would be the nail in our coffin. And the companies know this too....
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Ya might be right. But, if ABF is willing to give back some of what we voted out, look for a 2 to 3 year contract. To me that is how much more time they need to complete the CF close the door plan & open another company under a non-union contract. Pension Fund liability is always a dis-chargeable debit in Bankruptcy Court. @ 20 grand a year for 7,000 employees paid in to the pension funds is about 140 million a year, not counting the medical payments. 140 million a year is a lot of money not to have to pay. They can legally get rid of that obligation in Bankruptcy. So don’t act surprised when they invoke the CF Chain the Gate Shut Plan. Most of us who have been in this industry for a while can & do see the train far down the tracks heading for the station called Bankrupt. Von.
 
BIG R GUY said:
30 years ago, probably 60-70 percent of ltl was unionized. Now, we are looking at probably less than 10 percent. If any of the remaining union companies went on strike, it would be the nail in our coffin. And the companies know this too....[/QUOT

The 94 freight strike put a lot of companies out of business.Some went out of business during the strike, Churchill was one. Some signed a me too & went out of business later, NW was one that survived a short time. The next freight strike will be the last. There are more non organized companies now with much more capacity to absorb the overflow than in 94.
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vongrimmenstein said:
Ya might be right. But, if ABF is willing to give back some of what we voted out, look for a 2 to 3 year contract. To me that is how much more time they need to complete the CF close the door plan & open another company under a non-union contract. Pension Fund liability is always a dis-chargeable debit in Bankruptcy Court. @ 20 grand a year for 7,000 employees paid in to the pension funds is about 140 million a year, not counting the medical payments. 140 million a year is a lot of money not to have to pay. They can legally get rid of that obligation in Bankruptcy. So don’t act surprised when they invoke the CF Chain the Gate Shut Plan. Most of us who have been in this industry for a while can & do see the train far down the tracks heading for the station called Bankrupt. Von.
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My thinking is this is the last contract the union gets at ABF before the plan you mentioned is implemented. That is why we need to get everything we can the next contract or walk, they are not prepared at the moment to lose the money generated by the freight division. We need to force them to pony up so we can get our share while we can or make them shut the doors. The doors are going to shut, just a matter of when.
 
I don't see the corporation ever shutting ABF down if they can get a contract where they can show a profit. That being said the corporation has sold off several divisions that didn't show a profit after a given time. Most of the major purchases, Navajo, ETMF, & World Way corp. (Carolina) had divisions that didn't fit their business model or weren't profitable. The corporation did sell off Cardinal Express which was a flatbed division that came with the World Way acquisition that was profitable at the time. The decision was made to sell because the equipment was close to 3 years old which was the age equipment was replaced then. The company brought a better price while it was profitable.
I think the pension liability will be a deciding factor in the survival or the company. The company had made a valid point that they are the only major carrier still paying full pension benefits which puts them at a disadvantage.
I don't know what a presidential change will do for pension funding not only for Teamster pensions but others that are underfunded.
 
Dracula said:
Everybody's freebies can go away, at any time. How much stuff have the unions guys voted to give away?
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Ah,........but you know what the answer to that is , Brother.......
It was our choice to give it away...... that's why the company pulled out the old smoke'n'mirrors, terror tactic and spread the rumor that we were going to be bought........

The company that always claimed to be a good, moral, "Christian" - valued employer.............turned out that they would stoop to lies and deception just like any other employer,.........merely to line their own pocket.......

They took advantage of the bumbling incompetence they had noticed with the IBT .......

Watching them allow the largest contributor to the CSPF to buy out ,......... negotiating a cut-rate contract with YRC that involved NO pension payments for....how many years?.....and then watch our so-called..."leadership"..... bloviate about "pension reform"........

Most Multi-Employer pension funds,......if not all......were pretty solvent up to about 10 years ago........

Between our bumbling fools at the IBT, and Wall Street's plotting and Deviousness,........because they didn't like the idea of Unions doing "social engineering" with the stocks the pension funds owned,.........now, most funds are in critical status....

Funny,.........fund was fine 10 years ago,.......and I certainly didn't do anything to change it......

Unions,........years ago,..not today's spineless wimps at the IBT .........fought for all that stuff that we're now being tricked into giving away........
 
Cab Lizzard said:
If these union company's disappear it will be open season in LTL.
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Open Season in the most litigatious, liability-ridden occupation in the world.......

If any occupation needed a third-party advocate on the driver's side, between your employer and the general public,......this surely is it.

One minute you're doing your job,.....and in the next minute,.....due to someone else's error or stupidity,......your livelihood,..... Indeed, your very house,........can be lawyered away from you.....

I want a Union in trucking,....a strong one, with lawyers of their own on retainer........to protect MY interests in the event of unmitigated stupidity,......the companies have their own attorneys,......and there are enough ambulance-chasing lawyers out there willing to work pro bono to help the general public sue the trucking company........AND YOU.

Believe me, ....after 41 years, I've seen it all,......and I've seen guys lose their homes and marriage,.......because a company decided it was cheaper to throw them to the wolves, rather than to provide an attorney to represent them.

This is one occupation that truly needs a Union,......and not just for wages and benefits.......I wouldn't drive a publicly operated vehicle without one....
 
ABFer said:
That weekly co-pay does not go to the insurance company(s), it goes directly into the pocket of your employer. Your employer gets a bill for healthcare, it is not segregated by employer's share/employee's share. Don't you see that?
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Cab Lizzard said:
Vote and take are close but you got no say in your working conditions.
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When the IBT doesn't back you up, allows the company to violate the contract, which affects your working conditions, didn't the company take your working conditions and making your vote worthless?
 
Dracula said:
When the IBT doesn't back you up, allows the company to violate the contract, which affects your working conditions, didn't the company take your working conditions?
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Yep, and there is plenty of that going on, it's a catch 22 situation.
 
ABFer said:
I don't know who started that healthcare co-pay but it should never have started and the notion that UPS Small Package has now joined the ranks of those who pay it gets my goat. You are right on the money, that is not the same as the co-pay or the doctor's visits where the care giver keep the money. So...why do the employers give it, than take it away? They should outlaw those co-pays and let the employer cut their employees' wages so they can see exactly what is happening.
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At small package we don't pay a weekly premium.
 
DeTrucker said:
No we have to pay a deductible of $100 for single and $200 for family starting 2018. Otherwisewe still pay nothing for premiums.
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I am glad to hear that, I had more than one of your guys tell me that they would have to start paying out co-pays after couple of years. Somewhere there was a misunderstanding on what that meant.
 
ABFer said:
I am glad to hear that, I had more than one of your guys tell me that they would have to start paying out co-pays after couple of years. Somewhere there was a misunderstanding on what that meant.
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Deductible is kinda a co payment. Paying weekly monthey etc would be paying a premium.
 
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