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FedEx Freight | Union centers NOT getting new vacation pay rate.

Dick Dastardly said:
First off, how would the union be fooled? I seem to remember certain guys begging local 509 to file a petition and them refusing. They had the numbers to do it with. The IBT left it up to the individual locals to handle the activity. I seem to remember the International almost refusing to get involved at all in any way shape or form.

The IBT dropped the ball in not handling this when it became clear they had an opportunity to turn this into a full fleged campaign. Who knows how many locals sat on their hands refusing to file or to help out drivers who petitioned their locals for help on how to organize. There is no one to blame but the International.

Second, you drivers watching this unfold wishing for someone else to do something for you, and "hoping for the best" while "reserving the right" to petition, are leaving your "friends" out on an island alone. Either you get with the program and file, or this all dies a slow painful death.

I suspect most take the cowards way. No one is going to file, and you have no support whatsoever. What's done is done and the four are alone until it plays out.
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Very briefly. I know where we stand.

There were locations very able to file, under ANY percentage required by the local. The petitioners put the brakes on at the very last minute. Cold feet? No public explanation was ever given.

The IBT dropped the ball in not handling this when it became clear they had an opportunity to turn this into a full fleged campaign. Who knows how many locals sat on their hands refusing to file or to help out drivers who petitioned their locals for help on how to organize. There is no one to blame but the International.
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On this we agree. Figuring out why requires some uncomfortable speculation...
 
SwampRatt said:
On this we agree. Figuring out why requires some uncomfortable speculation...
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Even the union folks know the reason behind this one. And they tried like hell to fix it a few months ago. They almost did, too.

The actions of the International lie solely at the feet of James Hoffa Jr. and his top officials. And it's no secret that the lot of them tried to slam the door on the election because they ostensibly believed that the membership was united behind them. An investigation into the use of union funds for the Hoffa campaign is ongoing and two officers are probably being ejected from the union for covering it up.

As long as Hoffa is president of the IBT, it's HIS union. Not the members' union. That's his attitude. There's also plenty of evidence to indicate that Hoffa and his officials are in the pockets of many companies, UPS included.

All I can suggest for those of you engaging in this debate is that you at least talk on the level to a union driver from UPS, YRC or ABF who is on this board. Most of them feel that the International doesn't have the interests of the membership as a priority.
 
SwampRatt said:
I fully understand how it is being explained. Conventional wisdom is often incorrect. Often we must take things to the extreme to show the flaw in the thinking. Compensation increases take many forms. Next year, there might be zero mileage/hourly increase, but instead something else. Something new or calculated differently. Under your analogy, the response from the IBT would be, oh well, we must negotiate that. So, a little smoke and mirrors can deny them any increase at all?

I would have expected there to be a challenge, even if merely symbolic, to show good faith. Why negotiate something you may have secured through the court? The answer might explain quite a lot.
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Obviously conventional wisdom fails to understand that four centers voted for representation and the right to negotiate for something better, including economic enhancements. The vacation wage enhancement is in fact an economic enhancement and will be negotiated in due time. Why would you think that we would just get something without negotiating for it when that's what the majority voted for...the right to negotiate?? I feel some failed to realize the downside of voting for representation and now that reality is beginning to set in...if they would've only listened to both sides!!

Perhaps the IBT decided not to challenge because they already knew the answer!! Symbolic moves cost money...perhaps money the IBT didn't want to spend.
 
SwampRatt said:
Very briefly. I know where we stand.

There were locations very able to file, under ANY percentage required by the local. The petitioners put the brakes on at the very last minute. Cold feet? No public explanation was ever given.
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On the contrary, their actions spoke loud and clear...they felt they didn't have the numbers to win an election!!

Just because someone signed a card out of anger, frustration, etc, doesn't mean after they've had an opportunity to calm down and think about their decision that they're going to vote yes...as was displayed by many centers.
Remind us again how many centers filed petitions, had an election, and lost their election when in some cases up to 75% of cards had to be signed??
Petitions were pulled out of fear of losing an election because of lost support...period!!
No "public explanation" needed!!
 
Redracer3136 said:
On the contrary, their actions spoke loud and clear...they felt they didn't have the numbers to win an election!!

Just because someone signed a card out of anger, frustration, etc, doesn't mean after they've had an opportunity to calm down and think about their decision that they're going to vote yes...as was displayed by many centers.
Remind us again how many centers filed petitions, had an election, and lost their election when in some cases up to 75% of cards had to be signed??
Petitions were pulled out of fear of losing an election because of lost support...period!!
No "public explanation" needed!!
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Perhaps word came from the top? Perhaps some money changed hands? Who's to say. We're only left to speculate.
 
Redracer3136 said:
Not sure I follow you...could please elaborate??
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Since we are merely speculating for the pleasure of debating on an internet forum, and not actually accusing anyone of any wrong doing, I'm simply saying some top Teamsters officials could have been on the take. It certainly isn't that far-fetched of an idea given their history.
 
Redracer3136 said:
On the contrary, their actions spoke loud and clear...they felt they didn't have the numbers to win an election!!

Just because someone signed a card out of anger, frustration, etc, doesn't mean after they've had an opportunity to calm down and think about their decision that they're going to vote yes...as was displayed by many centers.
Remind us again how many centers filed petitions, had an election, and lost their election when in some cases up to 75% of cards had to be signed??
Petitions were pulled out of fear of losing an election because of lost support...period!!
No "public explanation" needed!!
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Not going to get wrapped up in history lessons or speculation on specifics. There are at least 1000 pages of debate on the topic. 638 pages, in one thread alone. http://www.truckingboards.com/bb/threads/the-union-debate-thread.65416/ Smokestack is not going to let this thread turn into that one.

I won't waste the time or contribute to this thread going down the same road. None of us can say, with absolute certainty, exactly what or why things went down the way they did, beyond our own locations. Suffice to say, things have changed in a variety of ways. Most think the effort had, and continues to have, positive results. The degree of improvement might vary from one location to another.

The here and now is worthy of discussion. There is a lot that would be good to know.
 
FedexFool said:
The 4 Union centers will not be getting the new city driver vacation pay rate. Also no new trucks at EPH or the SBR yard since voting in the union 2 years ago... Thanks for nothing Teamsters
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We never got new trucks at the dead end centers you apply this to for all the years I'm here. We always got hand me downs. the men at eph sbr are the teamsters so are you thanking them because all you care about is a truck and not better healthcare,pension, and rules that are in a contract that are consistant.
 
Sex pistol said:
It's not the company's fault. You need something to negotiate with to get something you want. Looks like the teamsters have nothing to negotiate with. I don't think the company is just going to give things up for nothing. They were probably lucky to get the raise, I think the only reason they got it, is because the company didn't want to **** off the drivers at those centers.
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No look at the NLRB law its called 'past practice' that's why they get the raise and bonus. As far as the vacation for city that is being dealt with and they will get it. but those guys at those 4 centers aren't to concerned about something they never had before even though they should of been getting it for all of these years. So the ones who are getting it thank the ones that voted the union in.
 
trucking62 said:
We never got new trucks at the dead end centers you apply this to for all the years I'm here. We always got hand me downs. the men at eph sbr are the teamsters so are you thanking them because all you care about is a truck and not better healthcare,pension, and rules that are in a contract that are consistant.
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There isn't, nor is there likely to be a contract. You all who attempted to make things better for all are to be commended. Unfortunately, I think some refuse to see the forest for the trees when discussing the Teamsters handling of this attempt to organize. They let you all down. This was a blunder of epic proportions on their part.

In 2011, James P Hoffa Jr announced a full fledged campaign to organize FedEx Freight. Just three short years later he was being given this company on a silver platter. Why his failure to act? Why did he and the top officials at the IBT remain silent while those at the local level attempted to dredge up support for their centers to organize.

Many locals refused to act on calls asking for help because they were awaiting word from the IBT on how to proceed; yet they never received instructions on how to move forward. I know of some who had been told in the past "hands off of FedEx", (Local 71 Charlotte NC being one of them) but seeing the activity popping up around the country confused them. The ones such as Local 71 who decided to act did so of their own accord.

Was Hoffa gun shy after having his ass handed to him by Overnite? I don't think he was shy at all. A shy man doesn't stand there and announce a campaign against one of the largest LTL's in the country. I think there's more to it. We'll never know the answer.
 
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Dick Dastardly said:
There isn't, nor is there likely to be a contract. You all who attempted to make things better for all are to be commended. Unfortunately, I think some refuse to see the forest for the trees when discussing the Teamsters handling of this attempt to organize. They let you all down. This was a blunder of epic proportions on their part.

In 2011, James P Hoffa Jr announced a full fledged campaign to organize FedEx Freight. Just three short years later he was being given this company on a silver platter. Why his failure to act? Why did he and the top officials at the IBT remain silent while those at the local level attempted to dredge up support for their centers to organize.

Many locals refused to act on calls asking for help because they were awaiting word from the IBT on how to proceed; yet they never received instructions on how to move forward. I know of some who had been told in the past "hands off of FedEx", (Local 71 Charlotte NC being one of them) but seeing the activity popping up around the country confused them. The ones such as Local 71 who decided to act did so of their own accord.

Was Hoffa gun shy after having his ass handed to him by Overnite? I don't think he was shy at all. A shy man doesn't stand there and announce a campaign against one of the largest LTL's in the country. I think there's more to it. We'll never know the answer.
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IMO, Jimmy Jr's announcement in 2011 was nothing more than a PR stunt...campaign rhetoric if you will. Jimmy Jr is nothing more than a politician of sorts and he'll say whatever the masses want to hear if it'll get him elected and re-elected. His intentions were never to organize FXFE, nor are they now....but this is all speculation on my part based on what I've seen and read.
 
SwampRatt said:
Not going to get wrapped up in history lessons or speculation on specifics. There are at least 1000 pages of debate on the topic. 638 pages, in one thread alone. http://www.truckingboards.com/bb/threads/the-union-debate-thread.65416/ Smokestack is not going to let this thread turn into that one.

I won't waste the time or contribute to this thread going down the same road. None of us can say, with absolute certainty, exactly what or why things went down the way they did, beyond our own locations. Suffice to say, things have changed in a variety of ways. Most think the effort had, and continues to have, positive results. The degree of improvement might vary from one location to another.

The here and now is worthy of discussion. There is a lot that would be good to know.
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I'll not respond to the first part since we were both guilty of contributing to "speculations" on that other thread...just as we both have started to do here. If we can't speak of something without certainty, then perhaps it's better left unsaid...to which I think we'll both agree that Smokestack will appreciate.

In your second paragraph, you use contradicting statements that need clarifying...first you say none of us can say, without abosolute certainty, what happened at other locations, then you say most think the efforts had positive results. How can you say what most think when you don't know, without absolute certainty, what's happened at other locations?? More speculation??

I agree with your last couple sentences.
 
Redracer3136 said:
I'll not respond to the first part since we were both guilty of contributing to "speculations" on that other thread...just as we both have started to do here. If we can't speak of something without certainty, then perhaps it's better left unsaid...to which I think we'll both agree that Smokestack will appreciate.

In your second paragraph, you use contradicting statements that need clarifying...first you say none of us can say, without abosolute certainty, what happened at other locations, then you say most think the efforts had positive results. How can you say what most think when you don't know, without absolute certainty, what's happened at other locations?? More speculation??

I agree with your last couple sentences.
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The statement about the lack of absolute certainty was pertaining to the "how and why" of the way things happened (and didn't happen), during the organizing effort.

Next. I'm pretty sure that MOST agree that the effort produced (some) positive results. You are correct, I should have injected an opinion qualifier into that original statement. Now that I'm free to state opinion, I'll go a step further. I think MOST in leadership would also agree that their conditions have also improved.

I'd be curious to hear, on what basis you would disagree. If needed, I can point to factors that support the above opinion.

Again, the degree of perceived improvement will vary quite a bit. Why? Because the starting point was vastly different, depending on location. We did learn that, in those other threads.
 
Dick Dastardly said:
First off, how would the union be fooled? I seem to remember certain guys begging local 509 to file a petition and them refusing. They had the numbers to do it with. The IBT left it up to the individual locals to handle the activity. I seem to remember the International almost refusing to get involved at all in any way shape or form.

The IBT dropped the ball in not handling this when it became clear they had an opportunity to turn this into a full fleged campaign. Who knows how many locals sat on their hands refusing to file or to help out drivers who petitioned their locals for help on how to organize. There is no one to blame but the International.

Second, you drivers watching this unfold wishing for someone else to do something for you, and "hoping for the best" while "reserving the right" to petition, are leaving your "friends" out on an island alone. Either you get with the program and file, or this all dies a slow painful death.

I suspect most take the cowards way. No one is going to file, and you have no support whatsoever. What's done is done and the four are alone until it plays out.
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The old slate from 509 was voted out I know personally they never cared. Nothing so far has been brought to new slate attention far as petitioning. Your right these guys at the four centers better start being proactive on negotiating actually more than the officials. Remember though new guys take seat couple weeks ago on international level so we don't know who gonna be over freight division Tyson Johnson was voted out.
 
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