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SwampRatt said:
What is also true and predictable, you could start everyone with the same dollar amount, today. Pick any amount, say $50k. Over time, some would accumulate (earn) quite a lot, far surpassing the $100K example. Others would squander theirs down to $20k, or even zero, for some.

Who would we blame for that inequality? They started on equal footing, but with variable, and often repeatable results.

Then politicians can tax the 100K group, in order to subsidize the 20k group in an attempt at fairness, where everyone lives like the 50k group.

Capitalism vs Socialist/Communism. One offers a path for anyone to climb up. The other offers a burden to keep everyone equally down.

Under Capitalism, we can donate to Charities to help the truly unfortunate, by choice, rather than by Government force.
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We're deep into politics here but what the heck. You're right, I don't know the percentage but a large percent of millionaires are first generation. Meaning they made their money on their own and the deserve that money.

You brought up charity and I agree on that to. I think this stuff should be as local as possible and it would end. Picture this, all of us live in the same subdivision and what I find ironic is we bicker a lot among the groups that's left here but we all actually work. Anyway in our theoretical subdivision there's a guy who loses his job, Joe Bloe as we know him. Ole Joe is out of work so we all chip in and give him some money, 50 of us give him 2% of our pay we can "afford" it to help a guy down on his luck right? So after a few weeks he can't find work and everyday he's sitting on his porch drinking a beer, he waves as you go to and from your job that's supporting him. So we start helping him find work, then the excuses start, I don't like that shift, I want to be in management, benefits aren't good enough, to far to drive, etc. etc. etc. At some point we get together and say I'm done giving Joe Bloe money if I can work so can he.

From where I sit there are FAR more Joe Bloes taking my money than millionaires getting more than their "fair share". I say make the lazy pay their "fair share" then we'll worry about the rich. I still need to work for them.
 
johndeere4020 said:
We're deep into politics here but what the heck. You're right, I don't know the percentage but a large percent of millionaires are first generation. Meaning they made their money on their own and the deserve that money.

You brought up charity and I agree on that to. I think this stuff should be as local as possible and it would end. Picture this, all of us live in the same subdivision and what I find ironic is we bicker a lot among the groups that's left here but we all actually work. Anyway in our theoretical subdivision there's a guy who loses his job, Joe Bloe as we know him. Ole Joe is out of work so we all chip in and give him some money, 50 of us give him 2% of our pay we can "afford" it to help a guy down on his luck right? So after a few weeks he can't find work and everyday he's sitting on his porch drinking a beer, he waves as you go to and from your job that's supporting him. So we start helping him find work, then the excuses start, I don't like that shift, I want to be in management, benefits aren't good enough, to far to drive, etc. etc. etc. At some point we get together and say I'm done giving Joe Bloe money if I can work so can he.

From where I sit there are FAR more Joe Bloes taking my money than millionaires getting more than their "fair share". I say make the lazy pay their "fair share" then we'll worry about the rich. I still need to work for them.
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The rich are creating even more poor these days. It's their failed policies, such as the NAFTA trade deals that put more money in their pockets while creating more poor here at home.

Then they go out and create these charities to convince you to give your money to help the poor they themselves created by offshoring jobs etc. They do things such as you demonstrated in your post, and create division amongst the lower classes to blame each other to divert the attention away from the fact that they themselves manipulate the system to their advantage to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. We're left with the burden of paying the taxes for the welfare given to the poor they created
 
Dick Dastardly said:
The rich are creating even more poor these days. It's their failed policies, such as the NAFTA trade deals that put more money in their pockets while creating more poor here at home.

Then they go out and create these charities to convince you to give your money to help the poor they themselves created by offshoring jobs etc. They do things such as you demonstrated in your post, and create division amongst the lower classes to blame each other to divert the attention away from the fact that they themselves manipulate the system to their advantage to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. We're left with the burden of paying the taxes for the welfare given to the poor they created
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Bull crap.
 
Dick Dasterdly if I'm not mistaken nafta was a Clinton aka Democrat deal? Signed by lil Willie Clinton. He could have easily turned it down but he takes credit for it. Just saying.
 
Rocky Top said:
Dick Dasterdly if I'm not mistaken nafta was a Clinton aka Democrat deal? Signed by lil Willie Clinton. He could have easily turned it down but he takes credit for it. Just saying.
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What's your point? It was Reagan's baby seen to fruition by George H.W. Bush and William Jefferson Clinton.
 
Dick Dastardly said:
You'll sing a different tune within a decade. The rich are actively pursuing things like automation for vehicles to displace you.
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Automation is going to effect the equation, as it becomes more and more cost effective.

It's already starting with the low skill/no skill part of the workforce. The push for $15 minimum wage, mandated insurance, mandated paid leave, etc all contribute to this. Entry level positions will be the first to go, then automation can and will work it's way up the chain.

Not sure it can be stopped until/unless something makes the technology ineffective. These same technologies erode freedom, liberty and privacy, all in the name of security. Without a massive Federal Government, much of this would NOT be cost effective, and the dependency class could not exist in mass.
 
SwampRatt said:
Automation is going to effect the equation, as it becomes more and more cost effective.

It's already starting with the low skill/no skill part of the workforce. The push for $15 minimum wage, mandated insurance, mandated paid leave, etc all contribute to this. Entry level positions will be the first to go, then automation can and will work it's way up the chain.

Not sure it can be stopped until/unless something makes the technology ineffective. These same technologies erode freedom, liberty and privacy, all in the name of security. Without a massive Federal Government, much of this would NOT be cost effective, and the dependency class could not exist in mass.
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I think it could be a fun discussion to have, autonomous trucks that is. I really just can't see it happening on a broad scale. I know 50 years ago they would have said that about factories to but there's a big difference between automating and assembly line and driving a truck through a construction zone.
 
Redracer3136 said:
Typical response from someone who doesn't understand business...actually, it does indirectly go "in the pockets of the workers"!! Most of that $10 is reinvested back into the company with a small portion going to pay investors. Once reinvested, it helps the business to grow by creating more jobs while increasing wages and bennies for those already employed...business 101...
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You live in a fantasy world. It will never increase anything for employees that are already employed at this business you speak of.
 
Dick Dastardly said:
Would you settle for Lenin? :poke:

"The history of all countries shows that the working class exclusively by its own effort is able to develop only trade-union consciousness."
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Right on cue......Marx coming next, right? You been spending a lot of time cleaning the communal portalet at the gulag lately or what?

However, there is quite a bit of evidence that they both were quite well off while they starved out the bulk of their nation......rich/poor will always exist, just like some squirrels will find more nuts than others.....an irrefutable law of nature.

Which is worse, greed or jealousy? Both pretty detrimental in my mind and make up the crux of this entire argument. I prefer independence and the liberty of making my own choices regarding life, those who might be jealous of what little material possessions i may have should try independence and responsibility sometime, as it can be refreshing.....
 
aflifer said:
Right on cue......Marx coming next, right? You been spending a lot of time cleaning the communal portalet at the gulag lately or what?

However, there is quite a bit of evidence that they both were quite well off while they starved out the bulk of their nation......rich/poor will always exist, just like some squirrels will find more nuts than others.....an irrefutable law of nature.

Which is worse, greed or jealousy? Both pretty detrimental in my mind and make up the crux of this entire argument. I prefer independence and the liberty of making my own choices regarding life, those who might be jealous of what little material possessions i may have should try independence and responsibility sometime, as it can be refreshing.....
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Jealous of what? Other people being greedy.
 
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