ABF | ArcBest Logistics giving UPak to Old Dominion

Yup. You know it, Brother.......And they do, too. In medical "care", it's easy for a doctor to ignore major symptoms when he figures the patient is going to die. You are drawing an allegory with ABF as the patient, and our IBT officials as the "doctors"...
That's OK, while killing us with our full pension payments the IBT rescued YRC with their wage and pension reductions.
 
Yup. You know it, Brother.......And they do, too. In medical "care", it's easy for a doctor to ignore major symptoms when he figures the patient is going to die. You are drawing an allegory with ABF as the patient, and our IBT officials as the "doctors"...
What I don't understand is the rank & file accepts it. And I was one of those. I did go around preaching to vote no, but our vote for the ABF contract was a 2 to 1 margin in favor. I will bet you even the Yes voters still squeal like a pig in heat because they got such a lousy contract, even though they voted yes. Boggles the mind. von.
 
What I don't understand is the rank & file accepts it. And I was one of those. I did go around preaching to vote no, but our vote for the ABF contract was a 2 to 1 margin in favor. I will bet you even the Yes voters still squeal like a pig in heat because they got such a lousy contract, even though they voted yes. Boggles the mind. von.

Bro.Von,........I don't think it was 2 to 1....... If I remember correctly , the deciding factor was about 848 votes out of about 4200 (roughly) cast.

But you do make a good point about how the "Yes" voters got their come to Jesus moment a couple of months after the contract vote. It seems that everyone became a "No" voter..........

Now,....if the IBT would invest in a truckload of artificial spines, and hand them out indiscriminately,..........we might win a good contract.

Save a few for the IBT negotiators.......

IF,......we could negotiate a good contract, erasing the rotten vacation provisions, strengthening the subcontracting language, and making some attempt at paying their most valuable asset what he or she is worth,........my "Proud" meter for both the IBT and ABF would go into the RED zone.......
 
Bro.Von,........I don't think it was 2 to 1....... If I remember correctly , the deciding factor was about 848 votes out of about 4200 (roughly) cast.

But you do make a good point about how the "Yes" voters got their come to Jesus moment a couple of months after the contract vote. It seems that everyone became a "No" voter..........

Now,....if the IBT would invest in a truckload of artificial spines, and hand them out indiscriminately,..........we might win a good contract.

Save a few for the IBT negotiators.......

IF,......we could negotiate a good contract, erasing the rotten vacation provisions, strengthening the subcontracting language, and making some attempt at paying their most valuable asset what he or she is worth,........my "Proud" meter for both the IBT and ABF would go into the RED zone.......
You nailed it. I think a lot of the I don't care problem in Unions is that the most of the current work force & all of those to come never had to give up something to have the wages & benefits they do. How many in your barn when you retired, or any large barn for that matter have workers that walked a picket line or sacrificed something for what they now get from their employer. I bet you can count on 1 hand the number of people who collected strike pay & still have not used all the fingers. If true, how do you convince the new breed to say no? Because if they don't they might come to work the day after Labor Day & fined the gates chained shut. von.
 
You nailed it. I think a lot of the I don't care problem in Unions is that the most of the current work force & all of those to come never had to give up something to have the wages & benefits they do. How many in your barn when you retired, or any large barn for that matter have workers that walked a picket line or sacrificed something for what they now get from their employer. I bet you can count on 1 hand the number of people who collected strike pay & still have not used all the fingers. If true, how do you convince the new breed to say no? Because if they don't they might come to work the day after Labor Day & fined the gates chained shut. von.
All good points, von. And your 'statistics' are sadly pretty accurate. I've been in 25 years and actually can't remember any 'YES' vote on ANY contract I've voted on. I resigned at a place around 10 years ago 1 year before that company decertified, after about a '20-minute' strike. I'm still good friends with the fellow who was our Shop Steward there. He was SO frustrated with his members...6 weeks before the vote, the younger (newer) employees are out buying new cars and trucks hand-over-fist. He's never been one to tell people how to live their lives, but watching those guys basically spend themselves into decertification drove him nuts.

The wife and I have basically shut down unnecessary spending the last year or so, and will continue to do so until contract time. Any extra goes right into the 'strike fund' savings account. I'll walk the line and carry the sign if necessary.
 
All good points, von. And your 'statistics' are sadly pretty accurate. I've been in 25 years and actually can't remember any 'YES' vote on ANY contract I've voted on. I resigned at a place around 10 years ago 1 year before that company decertified, after about a '20-minute' strike. I'm still good friends with the fellow who was our Shop Steward there. He was SO frustrated with his members...6 weeks before the vote, the younger (newer) employees are out buying new cars and trucks hand-over-fist. He's never been one to tell people how to live their lives, but watching those guys basically spend themselves into decertification drove him nuts.

The wife and I have basically shut down unnecessary spending the last year or so, and will continue to do so until contract time. Any extra goes right into the 'strike fund' savings account. I'll walk the line and carry the sign if necessary.
And that is how it is done, power to you and good luck, one can only hope that the rest see it the same way.
 
....

IF,......we could negotiate a good contract, erasing the rotten vacation provisions, strengthening the subcontracting language, and making some attempt at paying their most valuable asset what he or she is worth,........my "Proud" meter for both the IBT and ABF would go into the RED zone.......

IF... there is the big question.... If we can get some enhanced language on purchased transportation.... and vacation back to previous levels (I'm not being greedy I just want what we had back) and we can get hourly wages up to about 29 to 30 dollars an hour at the end of a 5 year, at least 27 at the three year mark(or the end of a three year contract, THAT I think is what we really need)....without giving up anything on the health and welfare front.... Then I will say they have done a decent job of negotiating.
 
IF... there is the big question.... If we can get some enhanced language on purchased transportation.... and vacation back to previous levels (I'm not being greedy I just want what we had back) and we can get hourly wages up to about 29 to 30 dollars an hour at the end of a 5 year, at least 27 at the three year mark(or the end of a three year contract, THAT I think is what we really need)....without giving up anything on the health and welfare front.... Then I will say they have done a decent job of negotiating.
I like it, boiler! And the three-year contract is a GREAT idea...too much can happen in 5 years, so three years seems right. H & W is going to be the hurdle in this one I think. Lots going on with that these days. Vacation levels MUST be restored to pre-2013 levels. That issue is non-negotiable in my opinion. Pension? I'm satisfied with the current contributions, but it could be a tad better. Brace for impact, boys!
 
I like it, boiler! And the three-year contract is a GREAT idea...too much can happen in 5 years, so three years seems right. H & W is going to be the hurdle in this one I think. Lots going on with that these days. Vacation levels MUST be restored to pre-2013 levels. That issue is non-negotiable in my opinion. Pension? I'm satisfied with the current contributions, but it could be a tad better. Brace for impact, boys!
Three year contracts are the norm outside of the teamsters union, our guys are the about the only ones who think three year deals are an unnecessary burden for them. And there is talk about ditching the teamsters over on the YRC side, I'd be in favor of trading them in for another union and after three years under a contract we can do it. They might want to think about that too. In addition to, "You should feel lucky to have a job", I've heard, "Everyone else is paying towards their health insurance", when the subject comes up. That tells me that they're ready to throw us into that pool of 'everyone else'. Their pay packages should be linked to ours, pay cut for us, pay cut for them, health insurance copays for us, copays for them, etc.
 
All standard corporate pre-contract talk. I would hope ABF upper management got rattled .....just a little bit.......after the disaster of the last contract. Kind of hard to hire quality employees when you don't give vacations and your competitors are paying better wages.

But,.....who knows? The ignorant hubris exhibited by most upper management types is only exacerbated by the corporate custom of giving out "Golden Parachutes" even if you screw up a company badly. No incentive to actually care how the rank-and-file think , until it's way, way too late to reverse the unintended consequenses of idiotic management decisions.And,....of course, the Idiot-In-Chief who made the decision is safely ensconsed on some golf course where he,....or she....was quietly removed to by the shareholders,....along with the appropriate stack of moneybags.....

Pay a co-pay for health insurance? Are you kidding? That money goes out of your paycheck RIGHT BACK to your employer,....to merely MAINTAIN your health care plan.......Doesn't go to your "health care". If it did, you could cut the check directly to the insurance company yourself, right?

Yeah, Right..........Ask the payroll department if you could do that..........

People who pay co-pays are too ....obtuse.....to realize their employer is surcharging them for maintenance,......and the money goes RIGHT BACK to the employer........

Good Contract in '18! Tell them to fix the thing or Strike..........and if the company threatens to close,....remind them that FedEx/OD/Estes are hiring at higher wages for CDL holders,.....so if they close, you'll be working in a week,....but all those dispatchers/ terminal managers/ clerks/ salespeople will have to infest the unemployment and welfare lines......

Threatening closure would be highly Stupid....
 
All standard corporate pre-contract talk. I would hope ABF upper management got rattled .....just a little bit.......after the disaster of the last contract. Kind of hard to hire quality employees when you don't give vacations and your competitors are paying better wages.

But,.....who knows? The ignorant hubris exhibited by most upper management types is only exacerbated by the corporate custom of giving out "Golden Parachutes" even if you screw up a company badly. No incentive to actually care how the rank-and-file think , until it's way, way too late to reverse the unintended consequenses of idiotic management decisions.And,....of course, the Idiot-In-Chief who made the decision is safely ensconsed on some golf course where he,....or she....was quietly removed to by the shareholders,....along with the appropriate stack of moneybags.....

Pay a co-pay for health insurance? Are you kidding? That money goes out of your paycheck RIGHT BACK to your employer,....to merely MAINTAIN your health care plan.......Doesn't go to your "health care". If it did, you could cut the check directly to the insurance company yourself, right?

Yeah, Right..........Ask the payroll department if you could do that..........

People who pay co-pays are too ....obtuse.....to realize their employer is surcharging them for maintenance,......and the money goes RIGHT BACK to the employer........

Good Contract in '18! Tell them to fix the thing or Strike..........and if the company threatens to close,....remind them that FedEx/OD/Estes are hiring at higher wages for CDL holders,.....so if they close, you'll be working in a week,....but all those dispatchers/ terminal managers/ clerks/ salespeople will have to infest the unemployment and welfare lines......

Threatening closure would be highly Stupid....
Like I have posted before. As of the start of the contract you are under now, 35 grand a year for health & welfare. Brian Buhle of Local 135 is my source. 20 grand goes to the pension, 15 for H & W. You give me 15 grand a year and I can find insurance as good or better. And that would not be a group policy. Just saying. von.
 
I see Brian is no longer listed as a officer of 135. Is he still working? I know he was voted out of as a International VP. von.
 
Like I have posted before. As of the start of the contract you are under now, 35 grand a year for health & welfare. Brian Buhle of Local 135 is my source. 20 grand goes to the pension, 15 for H & W. You give me 15 grand a year and I can find insurance as good or better. And that would not be a group policy. Just saying. von.
I'd like to see that policy that has our low deductibles for a family of any size. Go look at some of these crappy insurance policies there are around. Fed ex has insurance that cost almost as much as ours and their deductibles are 10 times what ours are. Our insurance is superior to almost any policy I've even heard of.
 
An in law asked me this weekend if ABF bought OD. He said he & others helped load a trailer for a preacher in Texas that was moving to Oklahoma. Upack made estimates & arrangements but an OD trailer was used. He didn't know if the tractor was ABF or OD since he wasn't there when the trailer was picked or dropped. He said the trailer was set up for household goods with dividers & a ramp.
A guess is that ABF is getting ready for a strike by being able to move freight to other carriers. They don't want to be caught with customers freight like during the 94 strike.
I know for a fact that ABF looked at buying OD several years back before OD starting providing nationwide service. Management officials looked at OD terminals, property, operation etc.
OD doesn't have the labor costs that ABF has because they don't provide the insurance & pay into the pension fund so they can move freight at lower rates.
 
An in law asked me this weekend if ABF bought OD. He said he & others helped load a trailer for a preacher in Texas that was moving to Oklahoma. Upack made estimates & arrangements but an OD trailer was used. He didn't know if the tractor was ABF or OD since he wasn't there when the trailer was picked or dropped. He said the trailer was set up for household goods with dividers & a ramp.
A guess is that ABF is getting ready for a strike by being able to move freight to other carriers. They don't want to be caught with customers freight like during the 94 strike.
I know for a fact that ABF looked at buying OD several years back before OD starting providing nationwide service. Management officials looked at OD terminals, property, operation etc.
OD doesn't have the labor costs that ABF has because they don't provide the insurance & pay into the pension fund so they can move freight at lower rates.
Interesting story about that Texas U-pack, Doc. I'd give a days pay to know which company's tractor delivered/picked up the trailer. You raise an interesting point about ABF preparing for a possible labor dispute by dumping freight onto other carriers to move it for them.
 
U-Pack was removed from the under the ABF Freight System umbrella before our last contract and at this point I wouldn't put it past them to farm it out to whomever will do it the cheapest. Timekeeper was removed from under the same umbrella since the last contract went into effect in violation of that contract, grievances were filed and the teamsters did nothing about it. We're on our own guys and it doesn't look good. And the teamsters can't understand why they can't organize other companies.
 
When our two brain-dead Freight Negotiators allowed "ArcBest" to take "U-Pack" from "ABF" as a separate entity,......thereby allowing subcontracting as "business not performed by ABF employees",...so now ArcBest can designate any business that enters through that gateway as "new"....,Tyson and Gordon practically gave away the store......

ABF is what allowed ArcBest to be created, ABF paid the overhead to allow DataTronics to exist, ABF employees and their sweat and work ethic made U-Pack a success where other carriers tried and failed to establish a similar moving program, ABF created TimeKeeper and ran it successfully in-house until the purchase of Panther................ArcBest owes it's success,....if not it's very existence,..........to the sweat and labor of the Unionized workforce of ABF,..............Any company official who denigrates that statement is denying the obvious..........

Our thanks?.............To have the work subcontracted out to scabs who laugh at the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938, and won't pay their hourly employees overtime. Those scab companies can now negotiate a cheaper Labor rate and undercut any Union company that has the........archaic idea,......that a job in trucking should pay and be subject to the same rules as practically every other occupation out there.......

Tyson and Gordon allowed this,......two supposedly "highly experienced" negotiators with years of freight experience.

As I've said before,.....was it Incompetency?....or was it Complicity?

Didn't make any difference to the voters in the last IBT election,.............we just knew those two had to go......

I fervently hope Mr. Soehl has more backbone,....more competency,.....and more foresight, than Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-DumB did....

Good Grief! ....IF you weren't aware of the looming critical driver shortage last contract,......you HAVE to be aware of it now,...especially after our cut-rate contract rubbed ABF's nose in it......

We are negotiating from a position of unparelleled strength, Ernie,.........as the insurance companies are pushing states to raise their qualifications for CDL holders ,....because they are tired of paying claims due to low-qualified, inexperienced drivers that companies are forced to hire.....

Good Contract in '18!
 
I'd like to see that policy that has our low deductibles for a family of any size. Go look at some of these crappy insurance policies there are around. Fed ex has insurance that cost almost as much as ours and their deductibles are 10 times what ours are. Our insurance is superior to almost any policy I've even heard of.

FedEx insurance stinks,........and their employees pay a weekly "co-pay" that seems to go up every time they get a pay raise.....

Oh,......and ask a FedEx driver about their....pension.

Me and a FedEX driver in this area about the same age with about the same service both retired about the same time. He was at my retirement party......

His retirement? Putrid,....in his words.......Not even a third of what I'm getting...........
 
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