FedEx Freight | City Driver covering Shuttle runs
- Thread starter Salty
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When it's an emergency central should cover it with a VIA and not the center trying to cover it's own bid with a driver that has only a 12 hour notice to flip his sleeping habits
That’s true Enough. The company has to try, no doubt. All companies would. You just have to look out for yourself and be safe is all. No one looks out for you better than yourself in these circumstances.
The Nature Boy
16 Time World Champion
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Document everything. You being bottom of the board and unassigned puts you in a rough spot, but you shouldn’t be forced to run a night shift after sleeping all night prior. Poor planning on dispatch’s part doesn’t make an emergency on my part. There’s other ways to get that covered and dispatch usually takes the path of least resistance to get it off their screen, which is have the bottom guy do it.
Don’t pay any attention to the super truckers calling you “soft”. They’re the first to squall when something doesn’t go their way or interrupts their daily routine. Don’t put the radio back on their station after driving “their” truck during the day. God forbid you should use “their” dolly during the day to do a swap and not rehook it to the cab. You’re considered worse than ಠ▄ಠ if you don’t readjust the mirrors to the way they had them. You’ll quickly see how “soft” they are. They’ll be the first ones to pontificate about how you shouldn’t have been driving when you have an accident because you drove fatigued.
Songremainsthesame
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No the alternative is to lobby for a change in the rules. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right or safe. I can't tell you how many times I've run this way as a road driver at OD. You try telling the guy that loses his wife and kids because some truck rolls over the top of the car after the driver has been up for 24 hours straight. We will never be treated or viewed as professionals so long as your attitude is the acceptable norm.
Canadian Flyer
They Call Me CF, Eh
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I have, at different jobs over the years, refused to change shifts on short notice. It's not just dangerous in trucking, it's dangerous period. Everyone has a cycle and changing it suddenly makes fatigue a certainty.
Make no mistake, a scheduled daytime driver has no business working nights unless they're informed well in advance. Just accepting this practice as "part of seniority" has made this problem run out of control as the years have gone on.
My response to the last supervisor to try and force me into work with no notice was "You try doing what you just asked me to do and let me know how it works for you." Don't let yourself be bullied.
Make no mistake, a scheduled daytime driver has no business working nights unless they're informed well in advance. Just accepting this practice as "part of seniority" has made this problem run out of control as the years have gone on.
My response to the last supervisor to try and force me into work with no notice was "You try doing what you just asked me to do and let me know how it works for you." Don't let yourself be bullied.
Good for you in voicing your concern, both here AND via the alert line. Here to make people think, the alert line to document it and insure followup. A paper trail that goes far higher up the chain of command than a simple conversation.
Nature Boy gave you good advice too. Document everything. Date, time, response, results.
This issue should concern the super truckers, as well. A driver rested and prepared for night work, informed that night that instead they will report in the am (12 hours later) for a 600 mile daytime turn will pose an equal or greater risk to public safety. There needs to be guidelines, ample notice to be rested and prepared for a 180 degree flip in the schedule. Maybe 18 hours is enough. Maybe more. 12 is not, IMHO.
This reminds me of what has been said before. Even if/when the Company wants to insure "Safety Above All", individuals in the chain of command can and do sabotage the effort. Sounds like your direct contact fits that description, as does several drivers here. Reprehensible, but the reality. Ridicule and shame, for sharing a legitimate safety concern. This applies to many driving situations. Just because it can be done, doesn't mean it should be done.
This topic is an example of how the ongoing the safety effort MUST include leadership. Safety managers are probably stretched too thin. I would love to have that conversation. Either safety is to be the default position, or not.
Please keep us posted on the followup to the alert line call. It is important.
PM me if you like.
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LTLIndentured
TB Veteran
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Keep climbing the corporate ladder until you find someone afraid of bad publicity or a lawsuit or of you reporting a DOT violation. All corporations are the same. Lower level leadership doesn't care about the big picture. Keep climbing and be sure to document who you told and when. They will get it fixed
Dick Dastardly
Drat, Double Drat, and Triple Drat!
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Songremainsthesame
TB Legend
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As an extraboard driver I prefer the company to be a little understaffed, but not to the point of exhaustion... it's a fine line for sure but some don't even try to balance it.
This has always been the life of an extra board line driver, it's worse if you are on the bottom half of a seniority board.
We once had a rotating (wheel) board if they could not give you a starting time when you called in, you could clear up to
6 hrs, and not lose your position, this worked a lot better.
Redracer3136
BANNED
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I’ve been laying back but I have to add my two cents...
First off, if you’re a driver, regardless of your job class, the company will use you as needed...period. Secondly, if you’re an extra board road driver, a road driver who’s on the last bid of a lane, or an unassigned/flex city driver, it’s up to you to expect the unexpected.
Extra board road drivers, as mentioned before, who are well rested on Mon morning and don’t get out have to be available on Monday night. The same goes for unassigned/flex city drivers. It’s your responsibility as a driver to get the proper rest needed to preform your duties when needed. Referring to the issue as a “safety concern” is nothing more than a cop out for those who don’t want to work nights IMO. Unassigned/flex city drivers aren’t guaranteed work and they’re definitely not guaranteed daytime work only. In a perfect world there’d be enough work for everyone to work days but if you’ve been in the LTL business long enough you know there’s nothing perfect about it!!
In CLT, it’s almost routine for the last 4-5 unassigned city drivers to run the road at night just as the top 3-4 run extra daytime road runs. It’s not right that the bottom of the road extra board gets forced out on a Monday night only to get stuck on nights all week while the top unassigned city drivers run daytime road but that’s the imperfect world of LTL that we live in...:
: happens!! Also in CLT, if a driver claims they can’t work nights because “they haven’t had the proper rest”, they’re not forced out at all, BUT...they’re not allowed to come back the next morning to work days either!! They’re required to be off for a 24 hr period and to be available the next night and they’re expected to be properly rested regardless of your job class...which is only right IMO.
In closing, as a driver it’s your responsibility to be available and rested when needed, regardless of job class....suck it up buttercup!!
First off, if you’re a driver, regardless of your job class, the company will use you as needed...period. Secondly, if you’re an extra board road driver, a road driver who’s on the last bid of a lane, or an unassigned/flex city driver, it’s up to you to expect the unexpected.
Extra board road drivers, as mentioned before, who are well rested on Mon morning and don’t get out have to be available on Monday night. The same goes for unassigned/flex city drivers. It’s your responsibility as a driver to get the proper rest needed to preform your duties when needed. Referring to the issue as a “safety concern” is nothing more than a cop out for those who don’t want to work nights IMO. Unassigned/flex city drivers aren’t guaranteed work and they’re definitely not guaranteed daytime work only. In a perfect world there’d be enough work for everyone to work days but if you’ve been in the LTL business long enough you know there’s nothing perfect about it!!
In CLT, it’s almost routine for the last 4-5 unassigned city drivers to run the road at night just as the top 3-4 run extra daytime road runs. It’s not right that the bottom of the road extra board gets forced out on a Monday night only to get stuck on nights all week while the top unassigned city drivers run daytime road but that’s the imperfect world of LTL that we live in...:
: happens!! Also in CLT, if a driver claims they can’t work nights because “they haven’t had the proper rest”, they’re not forced out at all, BUT...they’re not allowed to come back the next morning to work days either!! They’re required to be off for a 24 hr period and to be available the next night and they’re expected to be properly rested regardless of your job class...which is only right IMO. In closing, as a driver it’s your responsibility to be available and rested when needed, regardless of job class....suck it up buttercup!!
Richard Cranium
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I'm with Red on this. And you really haven't been here since 2003. You've been here since the last time you came back. I'm surprised you haven't asked for your original seniority date.
If having to flip flop schedules is that big a deal, you really should find another occupation as this one obviously isn't suited for you.
If having to flip flop schedules is that big a deal, you really should find another occupation as this one obviously isn't suited for you.
Canadian Flyer
They Call Me CF, Eh
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The problem is not flip-flopping hours. The problem is how it is physically impossible to not be tired if you are trying to be awake when you were last asleep. Twelve hours is not going to be enough time to be properly rested.
This practice is how people are killed! Being told that you have to be prepared to go when you're called entails a loop of insanity where either a driver stays up too long and is tired at work, or else misses out on work by not being available to take the call.
Saying you need to be ready to work when the company calls is copping out to the abhorrent nature of this practice. Saying it's been this way for years is acknowledging how big the problem is! How are you supposed to be sufficiently rested 24 hours a day?
You are not going to go back to sleep after waking up, getting ready for work and having a coffee. You won't be tired again for at least 8 hours after a full night of sleep. More likely 10. By the time you go for your night shift 12 hours later, you've had another coffee or two. And you're going to work for the next 10-14 hours without sleep? How does this not sound insane?
Making excuses for why this practice should be considered acceptable in a world where we all, as a group are facing increasing public image disasters from drivers engaging in this very practice is bewildering. And worse, it's the youngest drivers getting impacted the most. How are these guys ever going to want to do this job long enough to have any seniority? More and more young drivers are stuck on the extra board working insane hours to make any money, and they're stuck there for increasingly longer time periods because the guys with seniority aren't retiring like they used to. And we're wondering why so many people give up on this industry.
Food for thought. People don't want to drive trucks anymore. Why is that? Are there really so many people not cut out for the job? Or could it be, perhaps, that the industry as a whole is riddled with reasons why it's not a job worth doing anymore? Maybe it's because the trucking industry's working conditions haven't improved beyond what they were in 1978? You could argue that we're a lot more regulated now, sure, but ask yourself then why so many people can't make enough money to survive in a 10 hour day.
This practice is how people are killed! Being told that you have to be prepared to go when you're called entails a loop of insanity where either a driver stays up too long and is tired at work, or else misses out on work by not being available to take the call.
Saying you need to be ready to work when the company calls is copping out to the abhorrent nature of this practice. Saying it's been this way for years is acknowledging how big the problem is! How are you supposed to be sufficiently rested 24 hours a day?
You are not going to go back to sleep after waking up, getting ready for work and having a coffee. You won't be tired again for at least 8 hours after a full night of sleep. More likely 10. By the time you go for your night shift 12 hours later, you've had another coffee or two. And you're going to work for the next 10-14 hours without sleep? How does this not sound insane?
Making excuses for why this practice should be considered acceptable in a world where we all, as a group are facing increasing public image disasters from drivers engaging in this very practice is bewildering. And worse, it's the youngest drivers getting impacted the most. How are these guys ever going to want to do this job long enough to have any seniority? More and more young drivers are stuck on the extra board working insane hours to make any money, and they're stuck there for increasingly longer time periods because the guys with seniority aren't retiring like they used to. And we're wondering why so many people give up on this industry.
Food for thought. People don't want to drive trucks anymore. Why is that? Are there really so many people not cut out for the job? Or could it be, perhaps, that the industry as a whole is riddled with reasons why it's not a job worth doing anymore? Maybe it's because the trucking industry's working conditions haven't improved beyond what they were in 1978? You could argue that we're a lot more regulated now, sure, but ask yourself then why so many people can't make enough money to survive in a 10 hour day.
Redracer3136
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I’ll respectfully have to disagree with you on this one CF, I, as well as many others, have survived this practice with no problems. Our AM call block ends at 9am (10am back in my days on the bottom) and if I didn’t get out on Monday and knew I had to be available for Monday night, I passed on the coffee. Knowing the PM call block started at 6pm, I would always make sure to get a nap in sometime throughout the day and would take another nap sometime during the night (usually during my lunch/rest break) if needed and had no problem staying awake the rest of the trip. It comes down to being responsible for one’s self and making sure you make it home safely.
There are many reasons people no longer want to drive trucks but the “working conditions” within the LTL industry is probably at the bottom of that list...IMO.
Canadian Flyer
They Call Me CF, Eh
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Red, not everyone is capable of just simply napping for an hour or two here and there. Some people, myself included, are heavy sleepers. Once I'm asleep, I'm out for at least 4 hours. If I'm awoken before then, I feel tired.
I respect your opinion, Red, but we have to remember that the new generation don't function the same way the older generations do. Saying " I survived it just fine" ignores the fundamental fact that you shouldn't have to "survive" being a rookie when the industry is so in need of people. Living with your eyes falling out of your head is most certainly why some people I know won't work in LTL despite the pay being so much better. Being stuck for 10-12 years on extra board is a difficult pill to swallow as a young driver, especially since you're the first to go when things get slow and you have to start all over again.
We see now, in vivid print, why safety is NOT the highest concern for many. Exactly why safety often takes a back seat, from a cultural standpoint. Well stated, but wrong none the less.I’ve been laying back but I have to add my two cents...
First off, if you’re a driver, regardless of your job class, the company will use you as needed...period. Secondly, if you’re an extra board road driver, a road driver who’s on the last bid of a lane, or an unassigned/flex city driver, it’s up to you to expect the unexpected.
Extra board road drivers, as mentioned before, who are well rested on Mon morning and don’t get out have to be available on Monday night. The same goes for unassigned/flex city drivers. It’s your responsibility as a driver to get the proper rest needed to preform your duties when needed. Referring to the issue as a “safety concern” is nothing more than a cop out for those who don’t want to work nights IMO. Unassigned/flex city drivers aren’t guaranteed work and they’re definitely not guaranteed daytime work only. In a perfect world there’d be enough work for everyone to work days but if you’ve been in the LTL business long enough you know there’s nothing perfect about it!!
In CLT, it’s almost routine for the last 4-5 unassigned city drivers to run the road at night just as the top 3-4 run extra daytime road runs. It’s not right that the bottom of the road extra board gets forced out on a Monday night only to get stuck on nights all week while the top unassigned city drivers run daytime road but that’s the imperfect world of LTL that we live in...::
In closing, as a driver it’s your responsibility to be available and rested when needed, regardless of job class....suck it up buttercup!!
Be well rested and ready at all times, day or night. The better rested you are for one scenario, the less rested you'll be for the other. Great expectations. Again, anyone will likely be good for the trip out, but the return flight might kill you. Or worse, someone else.
And the icing on the cake? When someone does voice their concern, on this or any other unsafe practice, they are told to "suck it up buttercup". The typical response, ridicule and shame. No wonder most don't say a word.
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joes bar and grill
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What about the bid drivers working 14 hours a night, how sharp are their reflexes on the fri morning drive back? it's not about safety at all it's about getting the most for the least.
Redracer3136
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We are one in the same with our sleeping habits and yes, I understand that everyone is different, but it doesn’t negate the fact that we’re only talking about one day/night. For the remainder of the week it’s not hard to keep that sleeping arraignment.
Trust me, we could go on and on about today’s generation and what they can and can’t do..not all of them of course...but maybe LTL isn’t for them. Perhaps they’d be better suited for truckload.