Holland | Full Rate or lock the gate

It’s the way most all negotiations go, the company lowballs ,the union shoots for the stars and we meet in the middle.
Only difference now is that we aren’t negotiating with the company..they are the middleman.The lenders have a bottom line ,hinged on math.They could care less.
 
It’s the way most all negotiations go, the company lowballs ,the union shoots for the stars and we meet in the middle.
Only difference now is that we aren’t negotiating with the company..they are the middleman.The lenders have a bottom line ,hinged on math.They could care less.
It sure is hard to fight for the best possible contract we can hope for when guys like you give up a year before the negotiations start. Maybe you missed the memo about how much the bonuses that have been paid out in the last ten years? If you are correct that the company is just the middle man and the lenders are the ones making all the financial decisions, hinged on math, than the lenders must think these management people are doing a hell of a good job screwing the workers to make the the financial decision, hinged on math, to OK all those huge bonuses.
 
I think some of the guys on here should attend bargaining 101 class on here. You ask for the moon and try and negotiate to a tolerable agreement. You do not go on the internet and say were screwed we better take whatever they offer us because companies have closed in the past. If we don't stick together and ask for everything we will never get anything and that's my opinion on the topic. I for one am still not convinced we will ever make it to a vote next year a lot can happen between now and then. Has anyone noticed the bottom just fell out of the freight in the last couple weeks? Has anyone else heard Corporate makes the terminals call them and explain to them if any Amazon pick ups are missed. The rumor I am hearing is that you pick up Amazon and then you worry about other customers, it doesn't matter how big they are or how long they have shipped with us, nobody is as important as Amazon.

i have noticed less freight too, but its nice..i could still work 14 hrs SIX days a week if i wanted to...but then again i think ill stick with going home at 10 hrs is ok until it warms up a bit.
 
I would argue the answer to your question is bad leadership/ managment and greed. And our failure to hold those people accountable.
Take for example the MOU. Yellow management was given concessions that made non union carriers jealous and still don’t compete. wage cuts, vacation reduction, pension payment reductions, rule changes, use of NON UNION paid transport, etc etc you would think with all of that they could compete with anyone but not only do they not compete after almost 10 years of it they are still in debt and executives still receive big bonuses every quarter.

As for Union membership declining look at what goes on not only did Union leadership go along with those concessions they PUSHED for them to be imposed on companies like New Penn and Holland who were making money when the concession took effect which hurt those companies and lead to the decline in hiring. It was Union leadership that allowed UPS to buy out of the pension funds and can’t account for the billions UPS paid to get out and now tell us the funds are in trouble because there are not enough participants to fund them. I can’t even list the corruption cases within the union that has been brought to light, the fact that our union leadership continues to be more active in Washington politics rather than running our union drives me nuts constantly endorsing candidates that support policies that take our jobs and sell us out.

We constantly complain that companies are not being organized into the Union but the people who prevent it like Hoffa are re-elected.

union corruption imo is our #1 issue, who honestly thinks hoffa etc is honestly bargaining for us or any of these carriers that he represents? hes on the take along with his friends at the top and they arent even really hiding it too well sometimes, they spend our money on political bullshit like lobbying democrats, paying people off etc etc. we dont have access to the financials because he would of been in jail decades ago if the truth was known..these companies have the teamsters union bought and paid for. the healthcare guys at the top of that scheme are still all getting 600-700k/yr. the union is ok with us taking a cut but our management gets multimillion dollar bonuses year after year while our debt isnt being paid off and the tractors that yrc has "bought" are leased. what a scam. if our union was legit they would insist that yrc management has to resign and/or take big cuts+no bonuses.

if the healthcare wasnt thru the union i would of opted out, management fires anyone they want to with or without union representation. getting your job back is on you and what they got you for + your employment record regardless.

anyone that voted for hoffa and/or didnt vote deserves another round of concessions + you cant quit, you have to stay as punishment.
 
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I don’t think most of us are asking for to much. They don’t need to complicate this with a bunch of stupid rule changes and bonus formulas. A long drawn out negotiation only scares customers and investors. Just do the basics.

1. Don’t screw with my healthcare if the company wants that it should be a non starter for the Union.

2. bring me up to a COMPETITIVE hourly salary and overtime stays the way it is now at time and a half after 8 hours.

3 and this needs to be done from the union, allow part of the pension payment made by the company on MY BEHALF to be paid to a 401k if I so choose.

I’m even willing to bet that doing so will boost moral and help with the hiring problems that are making it hard to move freight.
Put that forward it gets passed easily and watch my teamster brothers and sisters move freight better than anyone.

P.S. I wouldn’t argue with the trucks being turned up a little too. 75 ish isn’t too fast.:17142:
 
I don’t think most of us are asking for to much. They don’t need to complicate this with a bunch of stupid rule changes and bonus formulas. A long drawn out negotiation only scares customers and investors. Just do the basics.

1. Don’t screw with my healthcare if the company wants that it should be a non starter for the Union.

2. bring me up to a COMPETITIVE hourly salary and overtime stays the way it is now at time and a half after 8 hours.

3 and this needs to be done from the union, allow part of the pension payment made by the company on MY BEHALF to be paid to a 401k if I so choose.

I’m even willing to bet that doing so will boost moral and help with the hiring problems that are making it hard to move freight.
Put that forward it gets passed easily and watch my teamster brothers and sisters move freight better than anyone.

P.S. I wouldn’t argue with the trucks being turned up a little too. 75 ish isn’t too fast.:17142:

anyone who has been hired in the last 10 yrs doesnt truly have a pension, its a complete waste of company resources. i think theyre contributing around 70$/wk in my name? if they gave me 5$ cash money in my paycheck and kept the rest it would be a great improvement, i could buy a 6 inch sub maybe..all im gonna get from a teamsters pension is 6 inches from hoffa. (*2 inches,correction)
 
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I think some of the guys on here should attend bargaining 101 class on here. You ask for the moon and try and negotiate to a tolerable agreement. You do not go on the internet and say were screwed we better take whatever they offer us because companies have closed in the past. If we don't stick together and ask for everything we will never get anything and that's my opinion on the topic. I for one am still not convinced we will ever make it to a vote next year a lot can happen between now and then. Has anyone noticed the bottom just fell out of the freight in the last couple weeks? Has anyone else heard Corporate makes the terminals call them and explain to them if any Amazon pick ups are missed. The rumor I am hearing is that you pick up Amazon and then you worry about other customers, it doesn't matter how big they are or how long they have shipped with us, nobody is as important as Amazon.
Thank you! 1/2 the guys on here are starting the bargain at zero and going down from there. Makes me glad I left this place for sure.
 
anyone who has been hired in the last 10 yrs doesnt truly have a pension, its a complete waste of company resources. i think theyre contributing around 70$/wk in my name? if they gave me 5$ cash money in my paycheck and kept the rest it would be a great improvement, i could buy a 6 inch sub maybe..all im gonna get from a teamsters pension is 6 inches from hoffa. (*2 inches,correction)
WOW that 70 a week would look good in a 401k!
 
It sure is hard to fight for the best possible contract we can hope for when guys like you give up a year before the negotiations start. Maybe you missed the memo about how much the bonuses that have been paid out in the last ten years? If you are correct that the company is just the middle man and the lenders are the ones making all the financial decisions, hinged on math, than the lenders must think these management people are doing a hell of a good job screwing the workers to make the the financial decision, hinged on math, to OK all those huge bonuses.

Who the hell is giving up? I’ve been on more than one picket line.I have also watched the union decline to almost nothing in our industry.Just because I try to bring out the positives of our job to deter from constant barrage of negativity from people that wouldn’t realize the good of a job if it was handed to them on a platter by GOD himself.
The full pay full pension ignorance doesn’t even deserve a rebuttal,if someone thinks that could even happen it’s not worth the time.I expect a raise and I totally agree with Keepingon about our pension money being directed to a fund with our name on it.
I have a feeling though, that more pension contributions are going to be a top priority for the IBT.They need to keep this Ponzi scheme on life support as long as possible.
Final thought, yes I would like another contract,no I wouldn’t take more concessions and I probably would not vote to strike because those days are gone with this company.As far as executive stock options and bonuses ,we will never work for a billion dollar corporation whether or not they make money where that shi t doesn’t go on.Maybe one day there will be laws to stop it but for now I would just like to get a decent raise with a contract.
 
My personal opinion is...if they gave it all back it would bankrupt your company
The concessions we agreed to so we could keep these companies open amounted to over $400,000,000 a year. That is roughly 400 times the amount of profits. The bonuses of upper management is a drop in the bucket.
 
I think some of the guys on here should attend bargaining 101 class on here. You ask for the moon and try and negotiate to a tolerable agreement. You do not go on the internet and say were screwed we better take whatever they offer us because companies have closed in the past. If we don't stick together and ask for everything we will never get anything and that's my opinion on the topic. I for one am still not convinced we will ever make it to a vote next year a lot can happen between now and then. Has anyone noticed the bottom just fell out of the freight in the last couple weeks? Has anyone else heard Corporate makes the terminals call them and explain to them if any Amazon pick ups are missed. The rumor I am hearing is that you pick up Amazon and then you worry about other customers, it doesn't matter how big they are or how long they have shipped with us, nobody is as important as Amazon.
And in the end you loose your bread and butter customers as a result of missing them.

I said a long time ago the Amazon account will be no good long term. It ties up to much rolling stock, has to much demand placed on it, and penny’s to the dollar can not be as profitable as our traditional accounts.

Who do you sacrifice? Avery Dennison? DuPont? PPG? The list goes on. I ran a P&D route for 15 yrs, once amazon came on Dispatch was telling me to go get the Amazon over my dailies. Said the Amazon held precedent now and we could get fined for missing them(don’t know if that’s true or not) .
 
It sure is hard to fight for the best possible contract we can hope for when guys like you give up a year before the negotiations start. Maybe you missed the memo about how much the bonuses that have been paid out in the last ten years? If you are correct that the company is just the middle man and the lenders are the ones making all the financial decisions, hinged on math, than the lenders must think these management people are doing a hell of a good job screwing the workers to make the the financial decision, hinged on math, to OK all those huge bonuses.
See this is where emotions need to be set aside. To say a person has already given up when they have done a rational assessment of the overall picture is an emotional response. In none of the posts you can see that Falcons says he gives up, he is saying as you have pointed out, I have and so many others the very fact that this company is not in good health over all.

This will play a huge factor in the coming negotiations. The lenders have the biggest sway in the matter and even though it’s a tough nut to swallow, we can do nothing about the fact that the executives bargained a profitable deal for themselves. It was a contract they negotiated for themselves and were paid out in kind under their contract. Ours sucked and sucks, but that was what was negotiated and voted on... fair? Hell NO! But that is what it was.

We have to set that emotional response aside as well. YES the members have to pressure the Union Leadership for a bigger piece of the pie for the members, but as I pointed out, the Union and thus the Leadership is dependent upon the survival of YRC/Holland/New Penn for its continued revenue stream. They will in the end do what ever it takes to protect their interests First and Formost even if that means sacrificeing some of yours and mine.

Most people don’t want to look at it on the surface: The Union is nothing more than a Corporation, just like YRC and any other corporations. They will first and foremost protect the interests of said corporation, if said interests adds additional benefit to its members then they are doing a decent job, but if they have to negotiate a somewhat palatable deal to keep the revenue stream to them rolling in they will go that route as well.

That is setting emotions aside in that evaluation. I get most do not want to look at the Union as a Corporation, but that is exactly what it is. It’s product and service offered may be different then other corporations, but it has a bottom line to maintain just like any other. It also has CEO’s and officers just like any other corporations that make big salaries, while those they “represent” have had to sacrifice. That is not hating on the Union at all by the way, it is a rational assessment of the nature of its structure. Also I will add it has become and really always was a political action entity. In many ways it dabbles in way to much, and in many ways it is also a reason those that are not part of the system as members or on the inside of the Unions abore Unions.
 
WOW that 70 a week would look good in a 401k!
Yes it would when you factor in Compound Interest. Your overall rate of return will be higher than it will or would be by investing in the pension fund.

Most people make the mistake of looking at snapshots of the market instead of understanding that investment into a 401 or IRA is not a short term thing and that the market will go up and down, but your investment and continued contributing money grows regardless by compound interest.

Those that poo poo the market and mutual funds need to remember all pensions have a stake in these funds. All pensions are also invested in big corporations as a result so we also should want the health of those big companies like Exxon, Walgreens, DuPont, etc to succeed and profit because not only does it help the pensions since they are invested, it also helps your personal investments.

Even at a 2% contribution rate for many years because of personal reasons and financial reasons, I am going to get more money from what I contributed into the 401 than what I will get from the pension. Many weeks that contribution was only $22 or so, but it added up and with compound interest the return will actually be better than the “guaranteed” monthly pension rate at retirement.
 
Nice slogan, must be ready to draw social security...and the ignorance continues.

Why do the Teamsters' union lose so many members? Very simply: Many of the companies the union has unionized cannot compete in a competitive market.

Take, for example, the trucking industry. In 1980, the United States Congress passed the Motor Carrier Act, which was signed into law by Democrat President Jimmy Carter.

The Motor Carrier Act deregulated interstate trucking. Government control of the trucking industry stopped and non-union competition increased. Price fixing went the way of the dinosaurs.

Deregulation of the trucking industry brought more competition because the costly process of government control of competition was eliminated. Most of the major union carriers in business prior to 1980 were not able to adapt to changes in the marketplace brought on by deregulation. Consequently, most major union carriers have gone out of business.

Below is a partial listing of Teamsters-represented companies that have gone out of business.
COMPANY
APPROX # OF
EMPLOYEES

1 P.I.E. Nationwide
17,593
2 Consolidated Freightways
15,500
3 McLean Trucking Co.
14,530
4 American Freight System
10,981
5 Spector Redball
7,610
6 Maislin Transport
6,375
7 Hall's Motor Transit
5,809
8 Interstate Motor Freight
5,536
9 Preston Trucking
5,500
10 Transcon Lines
4,817
11 Lee Way Motor Frt.
4,139
12 Wilson Freight Co.
3,754
13 Mason & Dixon Lines
3,627
14 IML Freight
3,624
15 Jones Motor Company
3,547
16 NationsWay Transport Service
3,500
17 T.I.M.E. - D.C.
3,303
18 Branch Motor Express
3,032
19 Pilot Freight Carriers
2,685
20 Johnson Motor Lines
2,515
21 Pacific Motor Trucking
2,470
22 Commercial Lovelace Mtr. Frt.
2,467
23 ICX (ILL.-Calif. Express)
2,373
24 Gordons Transports
2,163
25 ANR Advanced Transportation
2,000
26 C W Transport
1,990
27 System 99
1,962
28 Briggs Transportation
1,805
29 Motor Freight Express
1,802
30 A-P-A Transport
1,800
31 Campbell Sixty-Six
1,704
32 Murphy Motor Freight
1,578
33 Cooper Jarrett
1,532
34 Milne Truck Lines
1,497
35 Sante Fe Trails Trnptn Co.
1,483
36 Holmes Transportation
1,352
37 Jones Truck Lines
1,312
38 North Penn Transfer
1,272
39 Eazor Express
1,268
40 Hemingway Transport
1,268
41 Oneida Motor Freight
1,251
42 Chief Freight Lines
1,038
43 Boss Linco Lines
1,012
44 Midwest Emery Frt Sys
993
45 Mid-American Line
971
46 Clairmont Transfer Co
969
47 Mushroom Transportation
941
48 BN Transport, Inc.
919
49 R-W Service System
837
50 Tucker Freight
837
51 G M W (Glendenning)
828
52 B & L Motor Freight
826
53 Silver Wheel Frt Lines
818
54 Lyons Transportation Lines
813
55 United Trucking Service
796
56 AAA Trucking Corp
765
57 Salt Creek Freightways
698
58 Davidson Transfer & Stor.
697
59 Orscheln Bros. Truck Lines
660
60 Wycoff Co. (Express Co.)
650
61 Rio Grande Motor Way
648
62 Suburban Motor Freight
621
63 Brada Miller Freight
616
64 Tennessee Carolina Transport
595
65 Con-Way Eastern Express
549
66 Cleve Columbus & Cin Hwy
541
67 Central Truck Lines
502
68 Mercury Freight Lines
484
69 Tose-Fowler, Inc.
479
70 Courier-Newsom Express
475
71 Advance-United Expways
460
72 Bender & Loudon Motor Frt
450
73 Admiral Merchants Mtr Frt
445
74 Renner's Express
438
75 Steve D. Thompson Trkg.
400
76 Perkins Trucking Co.
399
77 Brown Express
386
78 Chippwa Motor Freight
382
79 Sterling Transit Co.
382
80 Wenham Transportation
380
81 Cook Motor Lines
357
82 Fowler and Williams
348
83 Express Freight Lines
344
84 GA FLA ALA Transportation Co.
338
85 Denver Midwest Mtr. Frt
320
86 Gross Common Carrier
299
87 Mercury Motor Express, Inc.
293
88 Manley Truck Line
285
89 Liberty Trucking Co
281
90 Fox and Gin, Inc.
278
91 Auclair Transportation Co.
270
92 Browning Freight Lines
265
93 Suwak Transportation
261
94 Virginia-Carolina Freight Lines
260
95 Allegheny Freight Lines
249
96 Tobler Transfer
248
97 Smith Transportation Co.
235
98 Highway Express, Inc.
228
99 Wooleyhan Transport
207
100 Dignan Trucking, Inc.
197
101 North Shore and Cent ILL Frt. Co.
195
102 Beacon Fast Freight Co.
192
103 Bowling Green Express
187
104 Peters Truck Lines
171
105 Dean Truck Line
158
106 Pulaski Highway Express
154
107 P. Callahan, Inc.
153
108 Sioux Transportation
151
109 Berman's Motor Express
148
110 Best Way Motor Freight
134
111 Nebraska-Iowa Xpress
133
112 Kains Motor Service
131
113 Graf Brothers
129
114 Maiers Motor Frt. Co.
129
115 Intercity Transportation Co.
127
116 Reinhardt Transfer Co.
119
117 Badger Freightways
105
118 William Hayes Line
105
119 Horn's Motor Express
104
120 Standard Motor Freight
102
121 American Freightways Co.
90
122 Williamson Transportation
90
123 Turner Trucking Co.
89
124 Griffith Motor Express
89
125 F & W Express
88
126 Jersey Coast Frt Lines
86
127 Sims Motor Transport
82
128 Evans Delivery Co.
59
129 Kenmore Transportation
56
130 Seaway Motor Express
55
131 C & E Trucking Corp.
50
132 R.D. Motor Express
50
133 Murfreesboro Freight Line
44
134 Red Ball, Inc.
44
135 Root's Express
44
136 Carpenters Mtr. Frt.
39
137 Waverly Transfer
Nope. Not ready for ss yet. And you say competitive? We are at the bottom when it comes to the competition so dont give me that ::shit:: either. There is a driver shortage everywhere. This closes I will follow the freight. But enough is enough time for us to take a stand even if people like you want to take another knee.
 
Nope. Not ready for ss yet. And you say competitive? We are at the bottom when it comes to the competition so dont give me that :::shit::: either. There is a driver shortage everywhere. This closes I will follow the freight. But enough is enough time for us to take a stand even if people like you want to take another knee.

You are another that only considers hourly rate when comparing to the competitors.
As I said $385/ week comes out to over 20 grand per year for our insurance.
We could easily be at the same hourly wage as the nons.They have outsmarted everyone with their hourly wage ,most with zero overtime.
You will never hear the word seniority violation again.
You will never hear the word time and a half again.
You will never hear the word grievance again.
You will never hear the word locals or committee again.
Have fun taking all your sick days on Friday’s or calling in for an emergency vacation.
Have fun when you are told to go home in six hours.
Have fun when you are told you’ll be working 4 days per week until further notice.
Have fun when the terminal manager tells you to tuck your shirt in.
Have fun when a 24 year old dock supervisor tells you to stop talking and get to work.
Have fun when you are told you need to get off yard faster.You need to learn to pre trip faster.
You call wanting to keep my union job taking a knee
Yet you are wanting to work on both knees.
 
Yes it would when you factor in Compound Interest. Your overall rate of return will be higher than it will or would be by investing in the pension fund.

Most people make the mistake of looking at snapshots of the market instead of understanding that investment into a 401 or IRA is not a short term thing and that the market will go up and down, but your investment and continued contributing money grows regardless by compound interest.

Those that poo poo the market and mutual funds need to remember all pensions have a stake in these funds. All pensions are also invested in big corporations as a result so we also should want the health of those big companies like Exxon, Walgreens, DuPont, etc to succeed and profit because not only does it help the pensions since they are invested, it also helps your personal investments.

Even at a 2% contribution rate for many years because of personal reasons and financial reasons, I am going to get more money from what I contributed into the 401 than what I will get from the pension. Many weeks that contribution was only $22 or so, but it added up and with compound interest the return will actually be better than the “guaranteed” monthly pension rate at retirement.

I remember when the company was paying full rate for years.The last few were an unsustainable app. 300 per week.We would all be millionaires if the money they contributed in our name actually went to an account in our name, instead of our company paying for the retirement of employees from companies that bankrupted years ago that never even drove a tractor or lifted a box for us.
Our pension is the exact definition of a Ponzi scheme.

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator generates returns for older investors through revenue paid by new investors, rather than from legitimate business activities or profit of financial trading. Wikipedia
 
I remember when the company was paying full rate for years.The last few were an unsustainable app. 300 per week.We would all be millionaires if the money they contributed in our name actually went to an account in our name, instead of our company paying for the retirement of employees from companies that bankrupted years ago that never even drove a tractor or lifted a box for us.
Our pension is the exact definition of a Ponzi scheme.

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator generates returns for older investors through revenue paid by new investors, rather than from legitimate business activities or profit of financial trading. Wikipedia
Just like SSI .. look at how many it takes to pay in today compared to when it was created. That’s not even factoring in those who collect but don’t pay in.
 
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