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SAIA | Why the massive turnover will continue.

runawaytrain said:
Yes, it is pointless and ultimately this so-called campaign will fail just like at FedEx. I read it everyday. It’s just a redundant stupid ass thread that should be put out of it’s misery like Jeff did the FedEx union thread. The Teamsters have a defective product that worked well for the older generations but devolved over the years with poor leadership. Why don’t you go to the ABF AND YRC forums and read what their own members think of them? Don’t take our word for it. The Teamsters never would have organized Overnite if UPS hadn’t bought them. The Teamsters have no leverage because they bring nothing to the table for the new hires among many other issues. Old relics like yourself that bask in the glory years isn’t enough. The keyboard warriors on here can’t reach the masses with a platform that’s just too small like this site and even if they could you can’t sell a defective product. The small group of posters with the same old :::shit:::. The free healthcare (ultimately nothing is free)>>>pension>>>the job security and so on. It’s not enough and FedEx demonstrated that with a decertification. As far as a union thread here it’s been done and ended with the same result. FAILURE!!! You can’t run an efficient LTL company here in 2018 with restrictive work rules that the Teamsters have. The competition would eat you alive. Deregulation put most unionized carriers out of business and the Teamsters did the rest. It’s a failed business model who’s days have come and gone. That’s the very reason why this industry is predominantly union free and will continue to stay that way.
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Your right to a degree the membership on YRC ABF thread mostly complain but don’t show up at halls when major issues arises. The union is the membership not leaders and like you said the older generation had the fight in them unlike today’s workers. They want someone else to put up the fight for them and they reap the benefits. We as drivers hold all cards but is afraid to use them due massive debt mostly. Until nons get tired of abuse long term it will continue. Non union carrier know what union can do in regards to strong work rules and honor of seniority it eliminates the ability to put drivers against each other and work to please management in hopes of a special hand out. That’s what deregulation did to trucking with shippers and carriers sticking together and drivers divided. Your claim of work rules restrict companies from being competitive is false. Holland and new penn is under same work rules as national LTL carriers and operation ratio stayed in 80s til YRCW took over and to this day is the financial backing of the YRCW. Due flexibility of non designated freight lanes they can move freight how they see fit but still work rules is being honored and seniority prevails. On top of that compensation package is still the same only down fall was regulated trucking allowed designated freight lanes and deregulation took that away and those companies failed to adapt to new model. Saia is the only exception in regards to healthcare package still good ,oh OD. The others pass saving that customers off to drivers to keep their profits at all time high XPO is prime example. Pay raise but we will pass more healthcare cost onto drivers and make you invest more in your own retirement package while theirs stay the same. OD for example pays no wait for delays to Road drivers but their Road doesn’t work the dock unlike some union carriers, yet they don’t pay overtime to city drivers unless forced by state laws. Unions make it fair across board for employees, but corruption can happen as happened due non involvement of members. Change can happen but drivers will have to grow some balls. Hell you see what the teachers union got for the ones that walked off the job for better pay. Lawmakers jumped real quick to make it happen over just a couple of days on strike.
 
runawaytrain said:
It’s not in their best interest. Plain and simple. I’ve listened to their pitch and know what they offer. FedEx is a prime example. They listened and decertified because it’s a downgrade from what they have now. Educate yourself with today’s Teamsters. Not the glory days. The 2018 Teamsters.
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We had a couple that wanted to jump ship to FedEx. They pay a higher rate and healthcare cost too. Once those guys realized they would make the same or less with overtime not as plentiful and take on cost of healthcare that is no where near what we have they chose to stay. TM told them they have grievance machinery as well but company runs it. Do you think that would be equally fair? It’s not today’s Teamsters, it’s todays type of workforce we have.
 
runawaytrain said:
Yes, it is pointless and ultimately this so-called campaign will fail just like at FedEx. I read it everyday. It’s just a redundant stupid ass thread that should be put out of it’s misery like Jeff did the FedEx union thread. The Teamsters have a defective product that worked well for the older generations but devolved over the years with poor leadership. Why don’t you go to the ABF AND YRC forums and read what their own members think of them? Don’t take our word for it. The Teamsters never would have organized Overnite if UPS hadn’t bought them. The Teamsters have no leverage because they bring nothing to the table for the new hires among many other issues. Old relics like yourself that bask in the glory years isn’t enough. The keyboard warriors on here can’t reach the masses with a platform that’s just too small like this site and even if they could you can’t sell a defective product. The small group of posters with the same old :::shit:::. The free healthcare (ultimately nothing is free)>>>pension>>>the job security and so on. It’s not enough and FedEx demonstrated that with a decertification. As far as a union thread here it’s been done and ended with the same result. FAILURE!!! You can’t run an efficient LTL company here in 2018 with restrictive work rules that the Teamsters have. The competition would eat you alive. Deregulation put most unionized carriers out of business and the Teamsters did the rest. It’s a failed business model who’s days have come and gone. That’s the very reason why this industry is predominantly union free and will continue to stay that way.
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troubleman84 said:
Your right to a degree the membership on YRC ABF thread mostly complain but don’t show up at halls when major issues arises. The union is the membership not leaders and like you said the older generation had the fight in them unlike today’s workers. They want someone else to put up the fight for them and they reap the benefits. We as drivers hold all cards but is afraid to use them due massive debt mostly. Until nons get tired of abuse long term it will continue. Non union carrier know what union can do in regards to strong work rules and honor of seniority it eliminates the ability to put drivers against each other and work to please management in hopes of a special hand out. That’s what deregulation did to trucking with shippers and carriers sticking together and drivers divided. Your claim of work rules restrict companies from being competitive is false. Holland and new penn is under same work rules as national LTL carriers and operation ratio stayed in 80s til YRCW took over and to this day is the financial backing of the YRCW. Due flexibility of non designated freight lanes they can move freight how they see fit but still work rules is being honored and seniority prevails. On top of that compensation package is still the same only down fall was regulated trucking allowed designated freight lanes and deregulation took that away and those companies failed to adapt to new model. Saia is the only exception in regards to healthcare package still good ,oh OD. The others pass saving that customers off to drivers to keep their profits at all time high XPO is prime example. Pay raise but we will pass more healthcare cost onto drivers and make you invest more in your own retirement package while theirs stay the same. OD for example pays no wait for delays to Road drivers but their Road doesn’t work the dock unlike some union carriers, yet they don’t pay overtime to city drivers unless forced by state laws. Unions make it fair across board for employees, but corruption can happen as happened due non involvement of members. Change can happen but drivers will have to grow some balls. Hell you see what the teachers union got for the ones that walked off the job for better pay. Lawmakers jumped real quick to make it happen over just a couple of days on strike.
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troubleman84 said:
We had a couple that wanted to jump ship to FedEx. They pay a higher rate and healthcare cost too. Once those guys realized they would make the same or less with overtime not as plentiful and take on cost of healthcare that is no where near what we have they chose to stay. TM told them they have grievance machinery as well but company runs it. Do you think that would be equally fair? It’s not today’s Teamsters, it’s todays type of workforce we have.
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Here you go
 
runawaytrain said:
It’s not in their best interest. Plain and simple. I’ve listened to their pitch and know what they offer. FedEx is a prime example. They listened and decertified because it’s a downgrade from what they have now. Educate yourself with today’s Teamsters. Not the glory days. The 2018 Teamsters.
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Here’s to my 2nd reply
 
troubleman84 said:
Here you go
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We have an open door policy that actually works. We have had many policies overturned without the need for a third party. The cameras are an irritant but ultimately they are for our safety. Are you against companies having the ability to fight against bocus claims? These cameras have exonerated many of our drivers from bocus claims that otherwise would have been terminated except for the fact we have the videos clearing them. The Teamsters are not all bad but they have a corruption history that’s hard to overcome. They sold out ABF. Don’t you think the nons see that type of behavior? They can’t sell their product for a reason. FedEx is a prime example.
 
Think what you want. The BA’s sell out and the Stewards play favorites. The Teamsters are just corrupt. And ultimately the company has the right to run their business the way they see fit.
 
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runawaytrain said:
You make some great points and some are true. But riddle me this. If the Teamsters have such a great business model then why did they fail at FedEx? Why can’t they convince the predominantly union free LTL industry to jump on board?
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Mostly thru fear add the fact that time is on the company side in the form of delay tactics. Certain drivers will bail for their on personal agenda. Mostly drivers just don’t have it in them to fight anymore just job hop to satisfy them short term. Yet they still find they come up short long term and the problem still exist just in another form. True the union is a business as far as salaries from who is employed from top to bottom, but I blame the membership for failing to hold the elected officials accountable on issues within.
 
runawaytrain said:
Think what you want. The BA’s sell out and the Stewards play favorites. The Teamsters are just corrupt. And ultimately the company has the right to run their business the way they see fit.
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Work rules are in place to protect seniority and jobs within classification. If company needs to violate seniority or classification for sake of business there is no issue with that. There will inconvenience fee paid thru the grievance machinery. UPS, freight carriers, and even dairy carriers have work rules its a common practice. That video was on point, no contract hinders business. I’m in NMFA holland runs road drivers 5-6 days dispatch in system due to being a next day carrier. YRC ABF run road drivers on 3 day dispatch due to them being long distance LTL carrier but on a 24/7 operation. Holland assigned tractors, YRC ABF slip seat company run business union receives deal out of negotiations as well.
 
runawaytrain said:
We have an open door policy that actually works. We have had many policies overturned without the need for a third party. The cameras are an irritant but ultimately they are for our safety. Are you against companies having the ability to fight against bocus claims? These cameras have exonerated many of our drivers from bocus claims that otherwise would have been terminated except for the fact we have the videos clearing them. The Teamsters are not all bad but they have a corruption history that’s hard to overcome. They sold out ABF. Don’t you think the nons see that type of behavior? They can’t sell their product for a reason. FedEx is a prime example.
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We have cameras face forward only. They didn’t sell out ABF the members gave proposal form to halls and negotiations begun. Members all didn’t accept deal regionally and what they wanted was achieved, Remember vote wasn’t forced only fear may have motivated vote. So who fault is that?
 
runawaytrain said:
Think what you want. The BA’s sell out and the Stewards play favorites. The Teamsters are just corrupt. And ultimately the company has the right to run their business the way they see fit.
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Oddly enough the video you posted said he was a union organizer... He was NEVER a union organizer but rather a union official who was elected OUT of office and then sued the local he worked at in Philadelphia (local 830) and lost. He then joined a union busting firm (LRI) which charges $3,000 a day for his services. He is a highly paid mercenary who says whatever it takes for people to not exercise their federal rights to organize and vote for union representation for his own personal financial gain. The drivers in WV, TX and other places at FXF know this man well. Oddly enough he posed as a driver at FXF on this very forum.
 
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Here’s where your company paid $26,000 to a labor “consultant” back in 2011. We can be assured he was impartial in his presentation and work right? We can be assured he was only looking out for the interests of the employees right? The irony is companies spend millions a year hiring these third parties to convince people they are better off without a third party.... now that makes a lot of sense. :duh:

https://olms.dol-esa.gov/query/orgReport.do?rptId=494701&rptForm=LM10Form
 
Hoot Owl said:
Here’s where your company paid $26,000 to a labor “consultant” back in 2011
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Worth every penny!!! What’s a matter Hooty? Are you still bitter? FedEx forum got you down so you come over here to cry. You’re co-workers voted to decertify and you just can’t let it go. You really need to get a life. It’s obvious you don’t have one by coming over here. You’re actually making yourself look desperate and very foolish. I find it pathetic.
 
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I seem to remember when their representative came to our center he spoke openly about both sides, the pros and the cons. He explained what we “could” expect from both sides and for the most part he was spot on. He hid nothing about his background and even admitted to receiving two pensions via the union from his former employment.
Most people who listened objectively learned a lot from his presentation, good and bad...those who entered with their minds already made up heard only what they wanted to hear (or what they were told they were gonna hear) and refused to listen to his message...which was their loss IMO.

At that time I was still on the fence and I found his presentation to be very informative, but then again I went in with an open mind.

I think “some” fail to realize that during those times (when LRI is brought in) it’s usually already a toxic situation and there’s nothing management can say or do to persuade anyone since their trust has already been lost, so companies see a measly $26K as money well spent if enough people enter with open minds and listen objectively!!
 
runawaytrain said:
Worth every penny!!! What’s a matter Hooty? Are you still bitter? FedEx forum got you down so you come over here to cry. You’re co-workers voted to decertify and you just can’t let it go. You really need to get a life. It’s obvious you don’t have one by coming over here. You’re actually making yourself look desperate and very foolish. I find it pathetic.
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Worth every penny to whom? Thanks for proving my point! That’s the best you can do? Not bitter at all just stating the facts. I seem to remember you lurking on our forum along with your brother White during our campaign so what’s the difference? What’s pathetic is you. Your the one who defended the camera system to the hilt and when it affected you negatively, you cried like someone smacked you and stole your lollipop.
 
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Redracer3136 said:
I seem to remember when their representative came to our center he spoke openly about both sides, the pros and the cons. He explained what we “could” expect from both sides and for the most part he was spot on. He hid nothing about his background and even admitted to receiving two pensions via the union from his former employment.
Most people who listened objectively learned a lot from his presentation, good and bad...those who entered with their minds already made up heard only what they wanted to hear (or what they were told they were gonna hear) and refused to listen to his message...which was their loss IMO.

At that time I was still on the fence and I found his presentation to be very informative, but then again I went in with an open mind.

I think “some” fail to realize that during those times (when LRI is brought in) it’s usually already a toxic situation and there’s nothing management can say or do to persuade anyone since their trust has already been lost, so companies see a measly $26K as money well spent if enough people enter with open minds and listen objectively!!
Click to expand...
Redracer3136 said:
I seem to remember when their representative came to our center he spoke openly about both sides, the pros and the cons. He explained what we “could” expect from both sides and for the most part he was spot on. He hid nothing about his background and even admitted to receiving two pensions via the union from his former employment.
Most people who listened objectively learned a lot from his presentation, good and bad...those who entered with their minds already made up heard only what they wanted to hear (or what they were told they were gonna hear) and refused to listen to his message...which was their loss IMO.

At that time I was still on the fence and I found his presentation to be very informative, but then again I went in with an open mind.

I think “some” fail to realize that during those times (when LRI is brought in) it’s usually already a toxic situation and there’s nothing management can say or do to persuade anyone since their trust has already been lost, so companies see a measly $26K as money well spent if enough people enter with open minds and listen objectively!!
Click to expand...

For $3,000 a day plus expenses with a money back guarantee he wasn’t there to be “informative” he was there to get results. If you were moved off of the fence by his well rehearsed presentation then he had at least one success anyway. He was there to take advantage of the toxic situation to sow division and was paid well to do so. He nor the company he worked for have ever checked back in on the people because the people are not their concern. The company will see the 26k as money well spent if it gets them the outcome it desires. But again, a third party hired to convince people that they themselves dont need one..... how ironic.
 
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