Estes | Estes Jockey Position vs FXF Driver Apprentice

Shane.STL

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Hi, just wondering how long it usually takes to go from Jockey to becoming a driver at Estes? Anyone know the pay for jockeys? I’m in St. Louis if that helps.

I was offered a job w Fedex Freight as a driver apprentice. My goal is to be a driver but I also want to drive w the best company I can get so if it takes a little bit more at one company than another to do so I’m willing to wait. I’m currently a dockworker at Dayton Freight and it’s a 6 month wait working part time to even have a chance to get into their dock to driver program.

Any recommendations on choosing between Estes and Fedex Freight? Which you think is the better company? Better pay? I’d be starting off at $20 in the apprentice program with FXF.
 
What type of driver? Linehaul or City?

Estes doesn't pay city guys overtime until 55 hours. FedEx pays OT after 8 hours daily or 40 hours weekly. Dayton pays OT after 40.

If you're looking to run the road, the pay is similar between these 3 companies, as far as I can tell.

I don't know how long it takes to be eligible for the driver training program. I think 6 months but it may be a year.
 
Fed Ex pays for a lot more of the work you do. I do know that Estes drivers have left to work at Fed Ex and have not come back. Vacation pay and time at Fed Ex is better. It seems that Estes is a stepping stone company for most drivers. If you can eliminate a step, I would do that. Most of Estes runs are short and they don't pay much for drop and hooks, pay nothing for wait time and fueling. I know you are out St Louis so runs will be longer but the overall morale of Estes is pretty bad for most of the reasons I've stated.
 
Neither! Go get an education! Then get a NORMAL job!!
I make way more money than most of my friends that have normal jobs and I dont have any pesky student loan debt to deal with. I probably have like 1 or 2 friends from high school that make more than me. I crush everyone else by 10s of thousands of dollars..That's not even bragging. It's just the truth..Why go to college for 4-6 years to make $60k and have $80k in debt?
 
Fed Ex pays for a lot more of the work you do. I do know that Estes drivers have left to work at Fed Ex and have not come back. Vacation pay and time at Fed Ex is better. It seems that Estes is a stepping stone company for most drivers. If you can eliminate a step, I would do that. Most of Estes runs are short and they don't pay much for drop and hooks, pay nothing for wait time and fueling. I know you are out St Louis so runs will be longer but the overall morale of Estes is pretty bad for most of the reasons I've stated.
Stepping stone?.You're talking like estes is central freight or R&L. Maybe that's the case for city but linehaul I know a crazy amount of driver who have put in many years here.

Also, just because FXF pays overtime after 40 doesnt mean you will actually get overtime. I've talked to several of their drivers, and at their respective terminals they try very hard to not let drivers get OT. Of course there will be exceptions at shorthanded terminals but this appears to be a conpanywide thing.

As for road drivers, new guys will have to endure years and years of short runs on the extraboard and working the dock like your an XPO driver. Screw all that. New guys at some Estes terminals are literally walking into scheduled runs because we are growing so fast.

I"m not at all saying that FXF is a bad company to work for. I bet they are great. I'd probably like working there. But this talk that Estes is some third rate carrier to work for is crazy. Linehaul pay is competitive with everyone outside of UPSF. I never sit at home. Literally never had my run cut or sat at home while on extraboard. That happens a lot everywhere else, just ask a UPSF driver.
 
I make way more money than most of my friends that have normal jobs and I dont have any pesky student loan debt to deal with. I probably have like 1 or 2 friends from high school that make more than me. I crush everyone else by 10s of thousands of dollars..That's not even bragging. It's just the truth..Why go to college for 4-6 years to make $60k and have $80k in debt?
I can see your point but if you do it right you can pay off your debt early. Truck driving is a changing industry and very demanding hours. Besides, you can loose your job or CDL easier than you can screw up your college degree. I’m currently getting my degree while I work for Estes, just to have a backup. No student loans for me though
 
I work as a jockey at Estes. Pay is 50 cents more then dock workers, starts at 20.80 at my terminal.

As for the driving program, you're supposed to do at least three months with the company before they'll let you in the program. Then it just depends on waiting for a school to open and spots to be avaliable. I think we do 3 or 4 schools a year. Jockeys are usually the 'preferred' people for the program.

School is two weeks long, then you're out with a city driver trainer for about a month. Then you'll test for CDL. Then some additional training if you're interested in linehaul side. School does include a two year commitment with Estes for the record or you'll have to pay them back.

At my terminal, we typically only bring people into jockey who have prior jockey or driving experience though. Seems they'll have you work dock first if you got no experience. If you tell them you're interested in driving though, they might put you right in the yard.
 
Stepping stone?.You're talking like estes is central freight or R&L. Maybe that's the case for city but linehaul I know a crazy amount of driver who have put in many years here.

Also, just because FXF pays overtime after 40 doesnt mean you will actually get overtime. I've talked to several of their drivers, and at their respective terminals they try very hard to not let drivers get OT. Of course there will be exceptions at shorthanded terminals but this appears to be a conpanywide thing.

As for road drivers, new guys will have to endure years and years of short runs on the extraboard and working the dock like your an XPO driver. Screw all that. New guys at some Estes terminals are literally walking into scheduled runs because we are growing so fast.

I"m not at all saying that FXF is a bad company to work for. I bet they are great. I'd probably like working there. But this talk that Estes is some third rate carrier to work for is crazy. Linehaul pay is competitive with everyone outside of UPSF. I never sit at home. Literally never had my run cut or sat at home while on extraboard. That happens a lot everywhere else, just ask a UPSF driver.
Being a stepping stone sometimes is intentional. Keeping a revolving door policy in place, keeps costs down. I was giving a honest answer. I noticed you didn't refute what a lot of new hires are using Estes for, which is experience.

Allow me to explain. When investing time into making money most not all, want to make the most money in the time invested. When given a choice of mostly short runs that Estes offers, you can make more money on every level(mileage, vacation, fueling, hooking ect.) at the competition. So when a younger person looks forward (adding up the money over time invested) he's see's more potential elsewhere.

Estes has a bright spot , maybe you can get a long run. Unfortunately at most terminals there is not enough and are over loaded with short runs. Which leads back to why new drivers leave. I think this is done intentional to keep costs down by creating a revolving door. Its not personal, just business. Estes knows how to keep and attract drivers. They know drivers have mouths to feed and in the end the driver will go to where those mouths get fed the most.

In the end, Estes is left with a overwhelming number of drivers who like Estes because they can get away with just about anything. Guys who are hungry will move on. Estes knows this and likes it and breeds it, at least on the district levels.

It is a third rate company but the cream of third rate. You make third rate sound bad. Is it?
 
Being a stepping stone sometimes is intentional. Keeping a revolving door policy in place, keeps costs down. I was giving a honest answer. I noticed you didn't refute what a lot of new hires are using Estes for, which is experience.

Allow me to explain. When investing time into making money most not all, want to make the most money in the time invested. When given a choice of mostly short runs that Estes offers, you can make more money on every level(mileage, vacation, fueling, hooking ect.) at the competition. So when a younger person looks forward (adding up the money over time invested) he's see's more potential elsewhere.

Estes has a bright spot , maybe you can get a long run. Unfortunately at most terminals there is not enough and are over loaded with short runs. Which leads back to why new drivers leave. I think this is done intentional to keep costs down by creating a revolving door. Its not personal, just business. Estes knows how to keep and attract drivers. They know drivers have mouths to feed and in the end the driver will go to where those mouths get fed the most.

In the end, Estes is left with a overwhelming number of drivers who like Estes because they can get away with just about anything. Guys who are hungry will move on. Estes knows this and likes it and breeds it, at least on the district levels.

It is a third rate company but the cream of third rate. You make third rate sound bad. Is it?
Sounds like you just are/were a disgruntled employee. It makes no business sense to keep runs short for no reason..The freight has to move whether it takes one driver or two or three..Its still going to get moved. Constantly having to hire and retrain new drivers is not efficient. Anyone with a brain will tell you that retaining experienced employees is cheaper than having to constantly hire and train people.

True short runs has more to due with geography than some diabolical nonsensical plan to keep costs down.

I had a 600+ mile after 6 months. Guess they forgot to cut that one in half! so they could keep costs down! LOL..What a joke.
 
Sounds like you just are/were a disgruntled employee. It makes no business sense to keep runs short for no reason..The freight has to move whether it takes one driver or two or three..Its still going to get moved. Constantly having to hire and retrain new drivers is not efficient. Anyone with a brain will tell you that retaining experienced employees is cheaper than having to constantly hire and train people.

True short runs has more to due with geography than some diabolical nonsensical plan to keep costs down.

I had a 600+ mile after 6 months. Guess they forgot to cut that one in half! so they could keep costs down! LOL..What a joke.
You make what Estes is doing sound negative and not a sound business model. You might be right but they have been in business for over 85 years. I don't walk into a super 8 and call it a 5 star hotel and neither does Super 8. Super 8's and Motel 6's provide a service. They are not Hilton's. Well, in the same sense that's what it's like in the shipping business. Customers don't pay Estes for top notch service and Estes doesn't pay drivers for top notch effort. It's not a conspiracy, it's a trade off. Estes knows you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Also, your personal attacks are proof that Estes hires only the best.
 
You make what Estes is doing sound negative and not a sound business model. You might be right but they have been in business for over 85 years. I don't walk into a super 8 and call it a 5 star hotel and neither does Super 8. Super 8's and Motel 6's provide a service. They are not Hilton's. Well, in the same sense that's what it's like in the shipping business. Customers don't pay Estes for top notch service and Estes doesn't pay drivers for top notch effort. It's not a conspiracy, it's a trade off. Estes knows you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Also, your personal attacks are proof that Estes hires only the best.

There you go...................... "We'll leave the light on for you"
JMO, I'd rather take a butt whipping than run a 600 mile run
 
You make what Estes is doing sound negative and not a sound business model. You might be right but they have been in business for over 85 years. I don't walk into a super 8 and call it a 5 star hotel and neither does Super 8. Super 8's and Motel 6's provide a service. They are not Hilton's. Well, in the same sense that's what it's like in the shipping business. Customers don't pay Estes for top notch service and Estes doesn't pay drivers for top notch effort. It's not a conspiracy, it's a trade off. Estes knows you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Also, your personal attacks are proof that Estes hires only the best.
I dont understand what you mean by "what estes is doing". What are they doing? You are implying that Estes pay isnt competitive. I find that laughable as well. Are you sure you worked at Estes? Drivers will complain about anything, but on the linehaul side at Estes pay isnt what I hear anyone complaining about. Last I checked our linehaul pay scale lined up with the best paying carriers outside of UPSF. You complain about short runs. Again, that has more to do with geography than a anything else. If you run the northeast, of course you're going to have a bunch of short runs this isnt breaking news. Run the south and midwest and you'll get all the miles you want.

The way you describe Estes makes it sound like they treat drivers the way Central Transport treats there's, and I just dont see that. If you want to take my strong disagreement with your portrayal of Estes as a personal attack, that's on you. Its not meant to be personal, I just find your portrayal disingenuous.
 
You are the one complaining about short runs. I was pointing out how younger people see it more profitable to go to the competition to run short runs. Why? Because they will be paid more for time spent. I brought up the long runs because when one is on a long run, one does not care as much about all the little things that add up. On a longer run you are paid for most of ones time. I responded to a question asked on trucking boards, gave a honest answer. Estes knows all this. They don't pay more to keep drivers. It is a fact.

When companies pay more, they expect more. Notice how Estes doesn't expect much. They are aware of where they stand with the competition when it comes to pay. Just driving down the interstate you can see the competitions yards. Lights are bright, roomy, equipment not destroyed. Now compare that to Estes yards, not even close. You smash a trailer at Estes you just added to the art work. No room to get around, dark and pot holes galore. Should I mention the stinking filthy bathrooms. Don't worry cause the dispatcher behind the window is a class act who will treat you with dignity and respect. LOL

Third rate indeed but cream of the third rate. Keep it up. There is more where this came from.
 
You are the one complaining about short runs. I was pointing out how younger people see it more profitable to go to the competition to run short runs. Why? Because they will be paid more for time spent. I brought up the long runs because when one is on a long run, one does not care as much about all the little things that add up. On a longer run you are paid for most of ones time. I responded to a question asked on trucking boards, gave a honest answer. Estes knows all this. They don't pay more to keep drivers. It is a fact.

When companies pay more, they expect more. Notice how Estes doesn't expect much. They are aware of where they stand with the competition when it comes to pay. Just driving down the interstate you can see the competitions yards. Lights are bright, roomy, equipment not destroyed. Now compare that to Estes yards, not even close. You smash a trailer at Estes you just added to the art work. No room to get around, dark and pot holes galore. Should I mention the stinking filthy bathrooms. Don't worry cause the dispatcher behind the window is a class act who will treat you with dignity and respect. LOL

Third rate indeed but cream of the third rate. Keep it up. There is more where this came from.
I love how you turned it around on me. Never once did I complain about short runs. You said estes keeps drivers on short runs to keep costs down. Your words. Not mine. So dont turn this around on me.

Allow me.to explain to you the way Estes runs things. They dont carry much if any debt. At all. We can go down through history and name dozens, if not hundreds of trucking companies brought down by excessive debt. Yes, to do this estes typically doesn't have the nicest big and shiny terminals on the block. I'll give you that. Do they have a lot of older trailers and dollys? Yes

But I rarely, if ever have equipment problems with trailers or dollys. I had one airline blow out on a dolly and a few blown tires. Now that's par for the course, you are going to have those issues at any company. Unavoidable.

The tractors I have run for linehaul have been just fine. They tend to keep us in newish tractors. Cant speak for city guys. They do tend to have to run older stuff, but again, this is no different than any other LTL carrier.

In summation, to keep debt low to nonexistent, they to have to stretch on somethings like facilities and equipment(mostly trailers). As long as my tractor runs fine, is legal, and everything will pass a DOT, im.good..What difference does it make if the trailer I pull is shiny or not?

As long as.my check.clears every week im good. I've made more.money here for less hassle than anywhere else I ever worked. I ran for saia before I came here. They have shiny terminals and a brand new fleet. Guess what? They are also A-holes, will.crawl up your butt about everything, you'll sit at home when it's slow, and they dont pay any better than estes.

Estes ain't perfect, I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else that it is, but I'm strongly making a case that your third rate argument is BS. There arent many LTL carriers I'd rate high up that id rather work for. But there are a long list of them I'd never work for.
 
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