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Hi'ya, BusterNite. LostCause currently with another company. He was asking about hiring into the Cincinnati terminal. The transfer part was meant, I think, that it wasn't feasible for him to move to hire in at another terminal. But, you're right... unless a terminal shuts down or reduction in work occurs that forces the company to transfer an employee(s), that person's seniority begins on the first full-time day performed at the new terminal. But, in the event of a layoff or vacation bid, that person maintains original hire-date seniority.
 
BusterNite said:
I don't know of any union contract that allows transfers with seniority unless you are following the work.
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UPS FREIGHT used to allow this for three years after they bought us. It was Overnite policy to allow terminal to terminal and SSD to LTL transfers. It was in the employee handbook UPS Freight gave us. Then they changed their policy and screwed all the people who had transferred on good faith. The Teamsters went limp and wouldn't fight it, so folks have gone to the NLRB about it. To my understanding, their review and decision process will be done sometime within the next couple of weeks. I honestly can't believe that it's going to take a government oversight committee to fix what UPS and the Teamsters screwed up.
 
tree9148 said:
UPS FREIGHT used to allow this for three years after they bought us. It was Overnite policy to allow terminal to terminal and SSD to LTL transfers. It was in the employee handbook UPS Freight gave us. Then they changed their policy and screwed all the people who had transferred on good faith. The Teamsters went limp and wouldn't fight it, so folks have gone to the NLRB about it. To my understanding, their review and decision process will be done sometime within the next couple of weeks. I honestly can't believe that it's going to take a government oversight committee to fix what UPS and the Teamsters screwed up.
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I new many people that transferred to other terminals in other states through out my years with Overnite, I remember the policy, but they went to the bottom of the list as far as bidding on jobs went. They were allowed to keep their company seniority regarding lay offs and vacation bidding. If they transferred to a brand new terminal, their job class seniority was at the time of transfer and again they kept their company seniority. I also understood that if you transferred to SSD from LTL, you could not come back to LTL with your seniority.
 
BusterNite said:
I new many people that transferred to other terminals in other states through out my years with Overnite, I remember the policy, but they went to the bottom of the list as far as bidding on jobs went. They were allowed to keep their company seniority regarding lay offs and vacation bidding. If they transferred to a brand new terminal, their job class seniority was at the time of transfer and again they kept their company seniority. I also understood that if you transferred to SSD from LTL, you could not come back to LTL with your seniority.
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Page 12 of the handbook said "Full-time employees with approved voluntary transfers retain their Company seniority at the new service center." SSD terminals were considered just another service center. When LTL came over to SSD, they retained their company seniority and went to the bottom of the job classification board. Likewise, the same applied when transferring to LTL.

We have a lot of experience with that situation here in the South because GSP was located upstairs from GVL and we had drivers transfer downstairs and to GAF under those rules I stated and it was never an issue. The company seniority list had all employees listed by their company seniority date, regardless of where they came from. That's the way it was before and for three years after UPS bought us and then they changed the policy after people transferred around on good faith and have screwed a large segment of the UPS Freight work force in the process. Taking away seniority someone has worked hard for is just wrong.

Something else that tripped my trigger about this is the response I got from our business agent at our local when I asked him to check into this. He said that they didn't do that up the street (meaning the small pack guys), so don't expect it now. I transferred long before the Teamsters were entwined in our terminals and UPS Freight should have announced a cut-off point for transfers and given everyone fair warning that they would no longer be allowed after X date. Did they do that? No. That isn't the UPS way. Their way is to keep people pissed off and fighting each other so we can't see what benefits have been trimmed from what we had before they got the Teamsters in our terminals.

In all the grievances filed that I initiated, I haven't lost one yet. Some had to be filed because of UPS management and some because of the Teamsters themselves. They both manipulate the contract to read what they want it to read and they both gather in the corner to gang up on the common worker so as to benefit both parties.

We could have had a good contract to begin with if everyone had stuck together, but there were too many people hollering "The bogeyman is out to get us! Quick! Sign the contract!!!". The rest of the sheeple listened intently and then went bleating off to the union halls to sign the same contract that they are today mad that they signed. Even the smarter ones going into the meetings said that the contract was junk, but they got poo-pooed by the rest and eventually shut up because you can't overwhelm ignorance with logic.

I bailed out of the Teamsters when I realized I was losing more than I was gaining. The dues I was paying now help me afford my medication at the higher cost under our union benefits plan. I really feel sorry for a lot of you. You have no idea what you lost in your decision.
 
It will be interesting to see what the NLRB decision will be. I hope they rule in the employees favour. There were benefits that we lost and benefits that we gained. The company having to honer seniority and not showing favouritism was a big issue here. In the contract under past practice might help argue the case.
 
I think the wording of the contract itself is what will make things right. It firmly states what company seniority is and it says nothing about drivers who transfer. UPS Freight made up all the other stuff. I think good things will happen. If they don't, then karma will come back around and bite them. It always does.
 
tree9148 said:
Page 12 of the handbook said "Full-time employees with approved voluntary transfers retain their Company seniority at the new service center." SSD terminals were considered just another service center. When LTL came over to SSD, they retained their company seniority and went to the bottom of the job classification board. Likewise, the same applied when transferring to LTL.

We have a lot of experience with that situation here in the South because GSP was located upstairs from GVL and we had drivers transfer downstairs and to GAF under those rules I stated and it was never an issue. The company seniority list had all employees listed by their company seniority date, regardless of where they came from. That's the way it was before and for three years after UPS bought us and then they changed the policy after people transferred around on good faith and have screwed a large segment of the UPS Freight work force in the process. Taking away seniority someone has worked hard for is just wrong.

Something else that tripped my trigger about this is the response I got from our business agent at our local when I asked him to check into this. He said that they didn't do that up the street (meaning the small pack guys), so don't expect it now. I transferred long before the Teamsters were entwined in our terminals and UPS Freight should have announced a cut-off point for transfers and given everyone fair warning that they would no longer be allowed after X date. Did they do that? No. That isn't the UPS way. Their way is to keep people pissed off and fighting each other so we can't see what benefits have been trimmed from what we had before they got the Teamsters in our terminals.

In all the grievances filed that I initiated, I haven't lost one yet. Some had to be filed because of UPS management and some because of the Teamsters themselves. They both manipulate the contract to read what they want it to read and they both gather in the corner to gang up on the common worker so as to benefit both parties.

We could have had a good contract to begin with if everyone had stuck together, but there were too many people hollering "The bogeyman is out to get us! Quick! Sign the contract!!!". The rest of the sheeple listened intently and then went bleating off to the union halls to sign the same contract that they are today mad that they signed. Even the smarter ones going into the meetings said that the contract was junk, but they got poo-pooed by the rest and eventually shut up because you can't overwhelm ignorance with logic.

I bailed out of the Teamsters when I realized I was losing more than I was gaining. The dues I was paying now help me afford my medication at the higher cost under our union benefits plan. I really feel sorry for a lot of you. You have no idea what you lost in your decision.
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I am a bit confused, You say that you have won all grievances that you have initiated, Sounds like the process worked under Teamster representation. You are no longer a dues paying member, yet you are hoping the process works for you. My prescription plan is much cheaper now than it was prior to the contract. Don't feel sorry for us, Most of us have gained substantially with this contract. The contract is far from perfect, but its much better than what we once had. Tell me what we have lost do to our decision compared to what we have gained. I am all about seniority, 100% seniority and that is why up here in New England we all stuck together and won a one seniority list board. Before the contract, our seniority meant nothing at all. I hope the process works for you.
 
BusterNite said:
I am a bit confused, You say that you have won all grievances that you have initiated, Sounds like the process worked under Teamster representation. You are no longer a dues paying member, yet you are hoping the process works for you. My prescription plan is much cheaper now than it was prior to the contract. Don't feel sorry for us, Most of us have gained substantially with this contract. The contract is far from perfect, but its much better than what we once had. Tell me what we have lost do to our decision compared to what we have gained. I am all about seniority, 100% seniority and that is why up here in New England we all stuck together and won a one seniority list board. Before the contract, our seniority meant nothing at all. I hope the process works for you.
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Maybe I should say we had it better in the South. You guys in the northeast and on the Left Coast tend to do things differently :-) Two boards means you have two different career paths without fear of being bumped from wherever you are by snowbirds. Company seniority means everything concerning layoffs, bumping, etc. Like I said, I don't think you realize what you had. The process I'm hoping works for me is the one from the NLRB, not the Teamsters or UPS Freight. The two grievances I filed should have never had to have been filed if the Teamsters were doing their job to begin with, i.e., earning their money.
 
We were talking about the seniority issue concerning transfers. I replied to a post and we went into the transfer policies that were in place pre-union/post UPS takeover and that have since been rescinded by UPS Freight with not a Teamster peep to be heard.
 
tree9148 said:
Maybe I should say we had it better in the South. You guys in the northeast and on the Left Coast tend to do things differently :-) Two boards means you have two different career paths without fear of being bumped from wherever you are by snowbirds. Company seniority means everything concerning layoffs, bumping, etc. Like I said, I don't think you realize what you had. The process I'm hoping works for me is the one from the NLRB, not the Teamsters or UPS Freight. The two grievances I filed should have never had to have been filed if the Teamsters were doing their job to begin with, i.e., earning their money.
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I am completely aware of what we had after 29 years with the company. I do remember back when we had two classification lists. I was number two man company seniority and road seniority (18 years on the road at the time) my run was cut and I worked one to two days a week all winter long until next bid. That's what seniority got me back then. Another example is a friend of mine had 13 years with the company, he was the bottom man on the road, his run was cut and he was bumped to the bottom of the city board. Yup, 13 years and he sat home every day all winter long and watched employees with 6 months to two years work every day. His 13 years meant nothing. I enjoy the total respect of seniority we have now along with overtime pay, delay and break down pay and all time spent paid and the lower cost of health insurance with no annual increases and the pay raises every six months Ect, Ect. I am fully aware of what we once had and what we have now. This is just an example of how it benefits some and not others. You just cant make everyone happy. Me, I am happy!!!!
 
Glad your status is secure. I'd be happy, too, if I had 29 years and could bounce back and forth like a tennis ball. If I may ask, when your run was cut, were there people below you on the road board that were working and you were not? You should have been able to bump one of them. As far as going to the bottom of the other board, that's the chance you take switching from one board to the other. It's spelled out for you what will happen and you chose to move over knowing those risks. The medical insurance may cost less, but you definitely get what you pay for in this instance. Your pay raise is only half a raise and not a full raise. That's why you get it every six months instead of an annual increase. I miss the little things like a company matched 401K, employee stock purchase, etc. Did you ever stop to think that all of these give-me's you got might be the reason other drivers are now losing their jobs? Being paid for every minute is nice, but not when they cut as many runs as they have and are paying contract carriers to run our freight instead of letting us haul it. I'm not that selfish.
 
tree9148 said:
Glad your status is secure. I'd be happy, too, if I had 29 years and could bounce back and forth like a tennis ball. If I may ask, when your run was cut, were there people below you on the road board that were working and you were not? You should have been able to bump one of them. As far as going to the bottom of the other board, that's the chance you take switching from one board to the other. It's spelled out for you what will happen and you chose to move over knowing those risks. The medical insurance may cost less, but you definitely get what you pay for in this instance. Your pay raise is only half a raise and not a full raise. That's why you get it every six months instead of an annual increase. I miss the little things like a company matched 401K, employee stock purchase, etc. Did you ever stop to think that all of these give-me's you got might be the reason other drivers are now losing their jobs? Being paid for every minute is nice, but not when they cut as many runs as they have and are paying contract carriers to run our freight instead of letting us haul it. I'm not that selfish.
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Yes, there was many drivers below me, but when the rules can change at any given notice, Its just the way it was. I fought it and won a rebid after 5 months of sitting home. I also miss the little things, 401 match, ect. No, I don't think these give me's are the reason drivers are losing their jobs. Its the economy and contract carriers just like all the other ltl carriers are going through. Overnite is long gone. We now work for UPSF and we are nothing more than a number and the company is nothing more than a pay check to me. Remember, this is not a family oriented company, they do not care about you or your family, Its a whole new ball game now. I will retire soon with the low cost negotiated health care cost of $250 per month thanks to my contract. One more thing to remember, Overnite (Leo) sold us out!!!! You are now a UPS replaceable number.
 
..first it always was you lost job(bid)classification if you voluntarily transfered..you used company time for vacations and layoffs...still that way..I agree thats not what art. 5 states...but the grievance procedure grinds on..

tree9148 your point about the raises and the 401k match were mute long before the first card was signed..TM told us back in early 07 that these were going to be stopped...soo cant blame the union for that,those wheels were set in motion the day UPS bought Overnite.It just took several years before those cogs got that far....like it or not freight is going to mirror package to the extent it can.
 
If we can transfer with our full seniority, I want to go some where warm, Hawaii, Florida or California I am going to retire soon. Will the company pay for the move?:biglaugh:
 
BusterNite said:
One more thing to remember, Overnite (Leo) sold us out!!!! You are now a UPS replaceable number.
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Never a truer word was spoken. Good luck on your retirement. I'm only 10 years in and wonder what will be there when I get to that point.

renegade- your company time doesn't count any more where layoffs are concerned if you've transferred from one terminal to another. That's what we're fighting right now. I've got a fellow driver that has 24 years in and transferred terminals two years ago when UPS allowed it. He's next to be laid off at his terminal. I guarantee you he would not have transferred if UPS had told him his hire date would start all over again at his new terminal.
 
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