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radman said:
So you are against Education,protecting the enviroment we live in,protecting the food we eat,protecting the elderly in there old age"thats not all that social security does" and you don't think everyone needs to be have health insurance. NICE.

Please go on if you would like.
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You totally missed my point. Education is a STATE issue, not a federal issue. Every state in this country has it's own Dept. of Education. The federal dept is a redundant department that is a waste of money. The EPA has gone beyond protecting the environment to pushing it's own agenda through it's power. Protecting food? HA! All the FDA does is push paper and red tape around. That's all ANY government agency does for that matter.

Social security, what else does it do then? And since when is it the Federal government's job to decide for me if I want to save for my retirment? Isn't that MY responsibility?
Besides, the money in Social Security isn't there any more, who's gonna take care of YOU when you get old? I plan on taking care of myself, thanks much.

Everyone already has health insurance, it's called Medicare and Medicaid. What the HELL do we need this 2000 page piece of legislation so weighted down with beurocracy and other CRAP that doesn't even pertain to health insurance? See, here's what social progressives do. They impose this stuff on you, then make it hurt more to do away with it than to just live with the system they've imposed. We have become so accustomed to an inflated federal government over the past 100 years, we don't ever remember a time we didn't have it. OR the fact that this country managed to start up from a revolution of a few patriots that thrived for well over 100 years without all this crap we're dealing with today.
 
Jayman said:
Everybody should have health coverage, because the 50 million or whatever the number is, goes to the emergancy room and run's up a big bill and guess who has to pay for it?? I don't undrestand how the richest country in the world, can't figure out how to cover their citizans with basic health coverage. And the easist way to do that would be make each individual responsible for their own health care, ie making them purchace a minimum basic policy. Just don't see the big deal, seems like its the logical and responsible way to operate.....Just don't share the outrage over that idea...:coffee1:
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All health insurance should be there for is to pay for the major medical events in your life that would bankrupt you otherwise. If you get a leak in a plumbing line, do you call your home owner's insurance to cover it? No! They'd laugh at you. Do you call your auto insurance company if you get a flat tire? No! Does J-Lo call Lloyd's of London if she gains a couple of pounds in that trunk she's insured with them? Well, probably, but that's a different story :438: Why then should your health insurance be expected to pay for a $100 trip to the doctor if you've got the sniffles? If you want Cadillac health insurance, of course it's gonna cost more, because it's on the hook to pay for more. Why do we expect for someone to swoop in and take care of everything for us just because we're paying a $30 premium every week? Hell, I don't even pay that much! I'm on the Fund plan which costs $7/week with all discounts, and gives me a $2250 fund to pay for bills not covered because of the deductible, before I ever pay out one cent! Medicare and Medicaid are there as a safety net for those who cannot afford private health insurance. BTW, the reason health expenses are so high isn't because of people without health insurance coming in and running up monster bills, it's because MEDICAID and MEDICARE are slow, inflated beurocracies that don't pay doctors quickly, and they don't negotiate how much they will pay for services. They tell the Dr "I'm sorry, that procedure may have cost you $5,000, but we're going to pay you $900 for that. Deal with it!" Dr's and hospitals charge us ALL more to cover what medicare and medicaid WON'T pay!!!
 
nncnwydude said:
All health insurance should be there for is to pay for the major medical events in your life that would bankrupt you otherwise. If you get a leak in a plumbing line, do you call your home owner's insurance to cover it? No! They'd laugh at you. Do you call your auto insurance company if you get a flat tire? No! Does J-Lo call Lloyd's of London if she gains a couple of pounds in that trunk she's insured with them? Well, probably, but that's a different story :438: Why then should your health insurance be expected to pay for a $100 trip to the doctor if you've got the sniffles? If you want Cadillac health insurance, of course it's gonna cost more, because it's on the hook to pay for more. Why do we expect for someone to swoop in and take care of everything for us just because we're paying a $30 premium every week? Hell, I don't even pay that much! I'm on the Fund plan which costs $7/week with all discounts, and gives me a $2250 fund to pay for bills not covered because of the deductible, before I ever pay out one cent! Medicare and Medicaid are there as a safety net for those who cannot afford private health insurance. BTW, the reason health expenses are so high isn't because of people without health insurance coming in and running up monster bills, it's because MEDICAID and MEDICARE are slow, inflated beurocracies that don't pay doctors quickly, and they don't negotiate how much they will pay for services. They tell the Dr "I'm sorry, that procedure may have cost you $5,000, but we're going to pay you $900 for that. Deal with it!" Dr's and hospitals charge us ALL more to cover what medicare and medicaid WON'T pay!!!
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Nonsense. Insurance is a service that the public sector can and does provide cheaper and more efficiently than the private sector. Much of the world already knows this. Universal programs of public insurance don't have to evaluate risk. Their raison d'etre is not excluding the riskiest clients so that private profits may be sustained. They don't have to pay executives gigantic salaries. They don't have enormous administrative costs and advertising costs. The only reason we do not have universal public healthcare in this country is due to the political clout of insurance companies. There is literally no substantive argument against it.

BTW I dont want cadillac insurance I want canadian style insurance.
 
Eliminate these high premiums with universal healthcare imagine the reprrcussions it would have in collective bargaining.
 
nncnwydude said:
All health insurance should be there for is to pay for the major medical events in your life that would bankrupt you otherwise. If you get a leak in a plumbing line, do you call your home owner's insurance to cover it? No! They'd laugh at you. Do you call your auto insurance company if you get a flat tire? No! Does J-Lo call Lloyd's of London if she gains a couple of pounds in that trunk she's insured with them? Well, probably, but that's a different story :438: Why then should your health insurance be expected to pay for a $100 trip to the doctor if you've got the sniffles? If you want Cadillac health insurance, of course it's gonna cost more, because it's on the hook to pay for more. Why do we expect for someone to swoop in and take care of everything for us just because we're paying a $30 premium every week? Hell, I don't even pay that much! I'm on the Fund plan which costs $7/week with all discounts, and gives me a $2250 fund to pay for bills not covered because of the deductible, before I ever pay out one cent! Medicare and Medicaid are there as a safety net for those who cannot afford private health insurance. BTW, the reason health expenses are so high isn't because of people without health insurance coming in and running up monster bills, it's because MEDICAID and MEDICARE are slow, inflated beurocracies that don't pay doctors quickly, and they don't negotiate how much they will pay for services. They tell the Dr "I'm sorry, that procedure may have cost you $5,000, but we're going to pay you $900 for that. Deal with it!" Dr's and hospitals charge us ALL more to cover what medicare and medicaid WON'T pay!!!
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The fund is great ..isn't it..no co pays..nothing out of pocket..
 
Jayman said:
Ok, if we are going to use life experance as our giude, amd I'm sorry to hear about your brother, my brother has a small business and he told me at christmas that his premium's for his wife and 2 kid's were $700.00 a month and he isn't even on the policy, because if he was it would be $900.00 a month, so he goes un-insured. On-top of that, they(insurance company) doesn't even cover a certain medication that his wife takes that costs $200.00 dollar's a month and it is a maintance medication. He is pissed about this highway robbery, and I don't blame him. Why is his premium's so high?? Thats BS.. And if he gets sick your saying he has nothing to worry about because he will be placed on medicaid, I tell him that, Fartknocker told me.
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Well, nc,dude did you skip over this post because it's a litte harder to answer? You pay $7.00 a month and that's great... YOUR LUCKY. So do I. Not everbody has or is ever going to have a job that pay's your insurance for you. Why don't you opt out and buy your own??????? That way you can practice what you preach?? If you make X amount of money a year, you don't qualify for medicaid. So read my post, just trying to do the responsible thing is enough to almost put a guy under..Jeez, It's easy to say this and say that when your paying $7.00 a month. And all this stuff about the reason heath care is so high is because Medicare and Medicaid only pay X amount, I got some big new's for you, that's EXACTY what Cigna does and all the rest of them. The hospital will bill an insurance company X amount, and they(insurance) WILL NOT PAY IT...
 
nncnwydude said:
All health insurance should be there for is to pay for the major medical events in your life that would bankrupt you otherwise. If you get a leak in a plumbing line, do you call your home owner's insurance to cover it? No! They'd laugh at you. Do you call your auto insurance company if you get a flat tire? No! Does J-Lo call Lloyd's of London if she gains a couple of pounds in that trunk she's insured with them? Well, probably, but that's a different story :438: Why then should your health insurance be expected to pay for a $100 trip to the doctor if you've got the sniffles? If you want Cadillac health insurance, of course it's gonna cost more, because it's on the hook to pay for more. Why do we expect for someone to swoop in and take care of everything for us just because we're paying a $30 premium every week? Hell, I don't even pay that much! I'm on the Fund plan which costs $7/week with all discounts, and gives me a $2250 fund to pay for bills not covered because of the deductible, before I ever pay out one cent! Medicare and Medicaid are there as a safety net for those who cannot afford private health insurance. BTW, the reason health expenses are so high isn't because of people without health insurance coming in and running up monster bills, it's because MEDICAID and MEDICARE are slow, inflated beurocracies that don't pay doctors quickly, and they don't negotiate how much they will pay for services. They tell the Dr "I'm sorry, that procedure may have cost you $5,000, but we're going to pay you $900 for that. Deal with it!" Dr's and hospitals charge us ALL more to cover what medicare and medicaid WON'T pay!!!
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Do you understand that the Canadian healthcare system (called "Medicare" actually) was enacted by a popular, democratically-elected government, and it's quite popular with the Canadian people?

I love talking to walls....
 
RustyNail said:
Do you understand that the Canadian healthcare system (called "Medicare" actually) was enacted by a popular, democratically-elected government, and it's quite popular with the Canadian people?

I love talking to walls....
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I don't know that I'd classify it as "quite popular" with the Canadian people beyond everybody has it...somehow I doubt that's what you meant by quite popular. ;)
 
EX396 said:
I don't know that I'd classify it as "quite popular" with the Canadian people beyond everybody has it...somehow I doubt that's what you meant by quite popular. ;)
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Maybe We should srart a thread on healthcare, and get off this union debate and news.......Even though I don't know what there is left to talk about, seems like there is more intersest in the healthcare debate??:coffee1: ....One day my coffee is in one place and the next day it's in another, please put it back in the same spot.
 
RustyNail said:
Nonsense. Insurance is a service that the public sector can and does provide cheaper and more efficiently than the private sector. Much of the world already knows this. Universal programs of public insurance don't have to evaluate risk. Their raison d'etre is not excluding the riskiest clients so that private profits may be sustained. They don't have to pay executives gigantic salaries. They don't have enormous administrative costs and advertising costs. The only reason we do not have universal public healthcare in this country is due to the political clout of insurance companies. There is literally no substantive argument against it.

BTW I dont want cadillac insurance I want canadian style insurance.
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There is NOTHING the government has EVER run that has been efficient and actually worked right. Just name one, I dare ya. The only reason it could ever be "cheaper" is because of the type of coverage you're getting! If we went to a universal health care plan here, do you know how many doctors would stop practicing simply because of the hassles of dealing with YET ANOTHER beurocracy, only this one would be in charge of telling them how much they're getting paid! As a health care provider I know I wouldn't want to operate in that type of a system. We'd be waiting in line for months for simple things, let alone for life threatening issues. Do you know how many people could die due to that?

Sure they don't have to evaluate risk, when they run out of money, they can just come to you and me as taxpayers and TAKE MORE. See, that's why the government never has to worry about what it spends. It can take more by force! Administrative costs??? You want to talk about administrative costs??? Look at EVERY government agency out there!!! They're so inefficient, they make YRC look like a good business model! If they were to take over 1/6 of our economy (which healthcare is, btw) can you IMAGINE how large the beurocracy would be??? It scares me just to think about it. Canadians come DOWN HERE for important health care issues because they know it will take too long to be seen up in Canada. If you want that, move to Toronto. We have SIC's up there, I'm sure you could transfer.

There is definitely a substantive argument against it. I want a health care system that works. Ours needs adjustment, but come on, really??? You honestly think the government is going to do any better? Two things that should change are: 1)be able to sell insurance across state lines. That creates competition which drives down price. 2) Insurance companies should never be able to drop someone when they're ill. Raise their premiums, maybe. If it costs more to insure a person and the company takes on more risk, they should be able to charge more, but no more of this dropping people just because they're using what they pay for.

Like everything else in this country, if we use government to establish basic rules and standards and NOTHING ELSE, get the government out of the way, let the market and people's ingenuity work, imagine how much better it could be. You demonize the insurance company for wanting to make a profit. Last I checked, folks who go into business for ANYTHING don't do it out of the kindness of their heart. They do it to make money. That's probably the reason why you work for Con-way.
 
nncnwydude said:
There is NOTHING the government has EVER run that has been efficient and actually worked right. Just name one, I dare ya ................................... OK, I will try, Army, Navy, Air-Force, Marines, CIA, FBI, Secret Service, Cash for Clunkers.....Should I keep going......:coffee1:.... Oh, and I almost forgot, Thermo-Nuclear Inter Continetal Ballistic Missile.
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Jayman said:
Well, nc,dude did you skip over this post because it's a litte harder to answer? You pay $7.00 a month and that's great... YOUR LUCKY. So do I. Not everbody has or is ever going to have a job that pay's your insurance for you. Why don't you opt out and buy your own??????? That way you can practice what you preach?? If you make X amount of money a year, you don't qualify for medicaid. So read my post, just trying to do the responsible thing is enough to almost put a guy under..Jeez, It's easy to say this and say that when your paying $7.00 a month. And all this stuff about the reason heath care is so high is because Medicare and Medicaid only pay X amount, I got some big new's for you, that's EXACTY what Cigna does and all the rest of them. The hospital will bill an insurance company X amount, and they(insurance) WILL NOT PAY IT...
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I didn't see this post, that's the reason why I didn't reply to it. Why are the premiums so high? What are their health problems? There have to be mitigating circumstances that are causing the insurance to be so high. Where on earth does he work that has that horrible of insurance?

There are choices in life we have to make. One of the reasons I work here is for the benefits. If this guy you're talking about is working for a place that doesn't provide health insurance or the insurance is that bad, why not look for another job? If there is no insurance or the insurance is that bad, chances are he's not making that much money. If his wife is not working due to health issues, I'm pretty sure they'd qualify for medicaid. Hell, we've got people running around in Escalades who are on food stamps, gov't programs aren't that hard to qualify for, especially these days. If they don't, there are lots of charity organizations out there that are willing to help. Here's another BIG issue I have with the government. They are trying to FORCE me to be charitable by taking money from me in taxes to support those "less fortunate" (or a lot more lazy) than I. I would be charitable otherwise and give to worthy causes. Who's the government to FORCE me to give to their cause?

My insurance is 7.00/week, not a month. Why on earth would I opt out and buy my own? That's just dumb. And it doesn't support the argument of "practicing what I preach." Buying insurance on your own can be expensive. That's why I've made the choice to work for a place that has pretty decent benefits. Like I said earlier in this post, life is full of choices. You have to make informed and wise ones to succeed. All health insurance companies negotiate with providers, that's how the market works. When you get a bill from your doctor, there's usually a discount notated on the bill. Cigna negotiates this with the provider. Otherwise the discount wouldn't be there. The provider could bill you for the full amount if they weren't willing to make that discount to Cigna customers. Medicare and Medicaid don't negotiate, they use the power of the government and TELL providers what they will pay. There's no negotiating with Uncle Sam. He could always come in and audit you.
 
Jayman said:
nncnwydude said:
There is NOTHING the government has EVER run that has been efficient and actually worked right. Just name one, I dare ya ................................... OK, I will try, Army, Navy, Air-Force, Marines, CIA, FBI, Secret Service, Cash for Clunkers.....Should I keep going......:coffee1:.... Oh, and I almost forgot, Thermo-Nuclear Inter Continetal Ballistic Missile.
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I LOVE our military and the folks that serve and have served. But I am literally laughing at this post. I'm sorry, I can't help it. Do you know how much inflated cost the military pays in defense contracts for equipment and supplies? Look it up online, you'll be shocked how much the gov't is willing to pay for a toilet seat.
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nncnwydude said:
I didn't see this post, that's the reason why I didn't reply to it. Why are the premiums so high? What are their health problems? There have to be mitigating circumstances that are causing the insurance to be so high. Where on earth does he work that has that horrible of insurance?

There are choices in life we have to make. One of the reasons I work here is for the benefits. If this guy you're talking about is working for a place that doesn't provide health insurance or the insurance is that bad, why not look for another job? If there is no insurance or the insurance is that bad, chances are he's not making that much money. If his wife is not working due to health issues, I'm pretty sure they'd qualify for medicaid. Hell, we've got people running around in Escalades who are on food stamps, gov't programs aren't that hard to qualify for, especially these days. If they don't, there are lots of charity organizations out there that are willing to help. Here's another BIG issue I have with the government. They are trying to FORCE me to be charitable by taking money from me in taxes to support those "less fortunate" (or a lot more lazy) than I. I would be charitable otherwise and give to worthy causes. Who's the government to FORCE me to give to their cause?

My insurance is 7.00/week, not a month. Why on earth would I opt out and buy my own? That's just dumb. And it doesn't support the argument of "practicing what I preach." Buying insurance on your own can be expensive. That's why I've made the choice to work for a place that has pretty decent benefits. Like I said earlier in this post, life is full of choices. You have to make informed and wise ones to succeed. All health insurance companies negotiate with providers, that's how the market works. When you get a bill from your doctor, there's usually a discount notated on the bill. Cigna negotiates this with the provider. Otherwise the discount wouldn't be there. The provider could bill you for the full amount if they weren't willing to make that discount to Cigna customers. Medicare and Medicaid don't negotiate, they use the power of the government and TELL providers what they will pay. There's no negotiating with Uncle Sam. He could always come in and audit you.
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He owns his own business and has about 15 employee's, and i don't think he offers them health care. your right his wife is considered high risk, but even paying those prices the insurance company won't pay for a certain medication. She has pre-existing condition and when i talk about health insurance with him, I can see smoke starting to come out his ears....So I try to change the subject, espiacially at christmas. Don't want him to have a heart attack at the dinner table....
 
nncnwydude said:
Jayman said:
I LOVE our military and the folks that serve and have served. But I am literally laughing at this post. I'm sorry, I can't help it. Do you know how much inflated cost the military pays in defense contracts for equipment and supplies? Look it up online, you'll be shocked how much the gov't is willing to pay for a toilet seat.
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So, lets let Blackwater and Mercenary guy's handle things??? It's easy to point out these problam's, it's another to solve them....:coffee1:
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nncnwydude said:
Jayman said:
I LOVE our military and the folks that serve and have served. But I am literally laughing at this post. I'm sorry, I can't help it. Do you know how much inflated cost the military pays in defense contracts for equipment and supplies? Look it up online, you'll be shocked how much the gov't is willing to pay for a toilet seat.
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Cash for Clunkers didn't work! It took good cars and trucks away from our kids!
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Jayman said:
Maybe We should srart a thread on healthcare, and get off this union debate and news.......Even though I don't know what there is left to talk about, seems like there is more intersest in the healthcare debate??:coffee1: ....One day my coffee is in one place and the next day it's in another, please put it back in the same spot.
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Somewhere along the way the topic of healthcare and the benefits offered by the union companies entered into the discussion.
 
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