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Yellow | How The West Was Won – With Pensions

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One of the big post pension legislation questions coming this way from drivers – outside of how the deep the cuts will be - follows along these lines.

How can the pension system be so screwed up that:

A 326 domicile driver travels to 890 for a lay down

890 domicile driver takes the equipment/freight from there

Same Company

Same Union

Same equipment and same freight

Basically same contract

Almost identical pension contributions by the hour


890 domiciled driver will have pretty much “normal” retirement while 326 driver is facing extreme retirement cuts.


As many on this board know the only dividing line is that of the independent pension plan trusts. That is the deciding factor on if your retirement could really get whacked.


The western plan has basically the same employee contributions but better funded and new money is still coming in as UPS is still a part of it. YRC Freight not in it anymore but western employees getting some benefit through 401k contributions.


Central States is underfunded and was the poster child for the pension cuts legislation.


Two independent pension trusts with very different financial situations.


What a screwed up system and it goes way back to when the companies were paying $8 an hour for a benefit that was worth about $1.50 an hour.


All we can do is fight for our active employees at YRC Freight. You deserve a good retirement and you certainly don’t deserve a pension system this messed up. Not sure the $1.75 an hour is doing you any good in Central States and neither would $10 an hour. Not right the company contributes no matter what amount and it will not end up in your retirement check as a part of Central States. That’s terrible.


Let’s get the union, companies and pension trust together right now to find out how we can salvage go forward pension contributions for YRC Freight, ABF, UPS or any other active union freight employees. No answers here in this post. I realize that but drivers/dockworkers/mechanics are concerned. We need a plan to get past Central States for our employees some way somehow. All of you deserve it.
 
I had always though what we had in central pa was the best i had heard of . the rip was a lump or db plan . the money was contributed into your own personal account . at the end you had a choice . a large lump sum payment and a smaller db or turn in the lump sum for a larger monthly . thats up to you when you retired . i made my choice wanting to get that large some into my total control but that would be up to the retiree .
 
Just another way we are divided as Teamsters today‼️When I joined in 1976 it was about us and sadly today it's all about me. I have seen it first hand even on here. I got mine and I don't care about anyone else. I'm already retired and they can't touch mine. Nobody is untouchable but until it effects them personally they don't care So sad what the union has become‼️
 
longblade said:
I had always though what we had in central pa was the best i had heard of . the rip was a lump or db plan . the money was contributed into your own personal account . at the end you had a choice . a large lump sum payment and a smaller db or turn in the lump sum for a larger monthly . thats up to you when you retired . i made my choice wanting to get that large some into my total control but that would be up to the retiree .
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Sounds good; the way I'd go if given a choice. Last I knew though, Central States (and all plans in 'Critical Status', at or below 60% funded vs obligations) is barred by law from lump sum payments until they recover. Federal Law.
 
yes , have heard that the Western Div. does is on a matching type 401-K plan instead of our failing type , asked our BA about it and he just said they have different rules out in the Western Div. ???? and so WHY if it's working out there WHY can't we copy the plan they have ??? point is union has to come up with a new plan that works for Central States !! and I know you all disagree with me , so what is " YOUR IDEA "on a new plan for central states ????????
 
wongway said:
yes , have heard that the Western Div. does is on a matching type 401-K plan instead of our failing type , asked our BA about it and he just said they have different rules out in the Western Div. ???? and so WHY if it's working out there WHY can't we copy the plan they have ??? point is union has to come up with a new plan that works for Central States !! and I know you all disagree with me , so what is " YOUR IDEA "on a new plan for central states ????????
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It looks as if the CSPFs is getting a new life for it's plan. This is just my opinion on how it may play out. The fund will get approval from the government to cut everyone's pensions except UPS. Depending on the size of the cuts the overwhelming number of retirees will probably vote no. Then the feds will overrule the vote and the funds will stop the hemorrhaging. By then, hopefully, the consent decree will have been lifted and the CSPF will have control of it's investments.

With less being paid out and better returns on the investments then the CSPFs should be able to recover. My optimistic scenario is based on the claim by the Kline-Miller Amendment that any cuts by the fund must be the last resort and that they must show it will rehabilitate the fund.

Let me add that I don't agree with the so called "orphans" being singled out for the biggest cuts. I do agree with equal sacrifice and that the UPS Teamsters should be treated the same as everyone else. But the UPS Teamsters agreed to a separate pension fund bases on UPS agreeing to make good on any cuts to their retirement benefits. They deserve their full checks but I don't think it should be at the expense of the non UPS Teamsters. I question the motives and ethics of the House Committee on Education and the Work Force in allowing UPS to renege on it contractual obligation. I question the fact that UPS made $163,848 in political contributions to 80% of the members of that committee. I question the morality of that committee's pandering to the UPS lobbying. I question the legality of the last minute adding of the loophole written especially for UPS worth $2,000,000.......................I'd say that $163,848 with a potential return of $2 billion was a great investment for UPS.
 
Correction the amount UPS stands to save from buying the exemption from Congress should have read $2,000,000,000. That's $2 billion not $2 million
 
Maybe the members will start paying attention to their PENSION FUND STATEMENTS
that they receive in the mail! Wouldn't that be a great idea!? I mean after all this did not become
a problem over night or did it?They have been declining for the past 15 years or so depending on where your at.
We set back and trusted someone to watch it for us instead of paying attention to the decline ourselves.
We should blame ourselves first.The truth is painful I stand just as guilty.
If you want to put it to the test then just ask someone if they have read and kept up with their pension fund statements.You'll see what I mean.
 
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MindWar said:
Maybe the members will start paying attention to their PENSION FUND STATEMENTS
that they receive in the mail! Wouldn't that be a great idea!? I mean after all this did not become
a problem over night or did it?They have been declining for the past 15 years or so depending on where your at.
We set back and trusted someone to watch it for us instead of paying attention to the decline ourselves.
We should blame ourselves first.The truth is painful I stand just as guilty.
Click to expand...

So we pay professionals $3 BILLION a YEAR to manage the fund and we need to start paying more attention WOW‼️ I mean really how do you respond to a statement like that‼️
 
Bart said:
So we pay professionals $3 BILLION a YEAR to manage the fund and we need to start paying more attention WOW‼️ I mean really how do you respond to a statement like that‼️
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Well, if we pay a ton of money to people to do something for us and if we monitor the situation and catch them when they're not doing their job, isn't that better than paying them and ignoring the situation while we're getting screwed? Just saying. What's the old saying - "Trust but verify"?
 
Bart said:
So we pay professionals $3 BILLION a YEAR to manage the fund and we need to start paying more attention WOW‼️ I mean really how do you respond to a statement like that‼️
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We sat there and done nothing.
79%funded
65% funded
52% funded etc etc.
Now suddenly its OMG!!! WE GOTTA TAKE A CUT!
The point I'm trying to make is that if the members
kept tract of our pension funds something by demand could have
done something BEFORE it got to this state.
People have to keep them in check or nothing will be done.
Just like in D.C. Set back and do nothing your ass is gonna pay the price for it.
 
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But then again why do we need a pension fund anyway?
Hell every thing is free! Housing,phones,EBT cards,healthcare.
 
MindWar said:
We sat there and done nothing.
79%funded
65% funded
52% funded etc etc.
Now suddenly its OMG!!! WE GOTTA TAKE A CUT!
The point I'm trying to make is that if the members
kept tract of our pension funds something by demand could have
done something BEFORE it got to this state.
People have to keep them in check or nothing will be done.
Just like in D.C. Set back and do nothing your ass is gonna pay the price for it.
Click to expand...
I believe (not sure) it was government ordered oversight because of past corruption
 
wongway said:
yes , have heard that the Western Div. does is on a matching type 401-K plan instead of our failing type , asked our BA about it and he just said they have different rules out in the Western Div. ???? and so WHY if it's working out there WHY can't we copy the plan they have ??? point is union has to come up with a new plan that works for Central States !! and I know you all disagree with me , so what is " YOUR IDEA "on a new plan for central states ????????
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probably to late with the fed involved now.Who the hell knows.
 
jimmy g said:
I believe (not sure) it was government ordered oversight because of past corruption
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Central states is a huge fund itself.The fed had to do something to slow down the downward slide.Okay?
There's no corruption except fat cats getting big salaries to do little.
They are required by federal law to make changes (be it little or big) when the fund becomes insolvent (critical state).
It is considered to be in a critical state when under 80% funded.
The problem was they didn't do enough to stop the downward slide,but did fulfill the federal requirement by
MAKING SOME SORT OF EFFORT TO SAVE IT. It doesnt matter if it worked or not.As long as they have done that their is nothing corrupt according to the federal law.EFFORT IS THE KEY WORD.
Now if the members stayed on top of their declining pension fund statements over the years
and demanded a turn around we just might not be in this situation to begin with.
 
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At the bottom of the statement you receive from the pension fund it says if you want more info all you have to do is ask. People have asked and they were told they couldn't have it. Heck there have even been lawsuits over it and the members can't get the info! The Backdoor deal is to keep us from seeing the truth if the PGBC had to take over this dog!
 
MindWar said:
Central states is a huge fund itself.The fed had to do something to slow down the downward slide.Okay?
There's no corruption except fat cats getting big salaries to do little.
They are required by federal law to make changes (be it little or big) when the fund becomes insolvent (critical state).
It is considered to be in a critical state when under 80% funded.
The problem was they didn't do enough to stop the downward slide,but did fulfill the federal requirement by
MAKING SOME SORT OF EFFORT TO SAVE IT. It doesnt matter if it worked or not.As long as they have done that their is nothing corrupt according to the federal law.EFFORT IS THE KEY WORD.
Now if the members stayed on top of their declining pension fund statements over the years
and demanded a turn around we just might not be in this situation to begin with.
Click to expand...
Again, I believe ( not sure) it was in oversight as a plea deal reached for past corruption, not because it was 'a large fund'. Have to research, will get back to you...
 
Bart said:
At the bottom of the statement you receive from the pension fund it says if you want more info all you have to do is ask. People have asked and they were told they couldn't have it. Heck there have even been lawsuits over it and the members can't get the info! The Backdoor deal is to keep us from seeing the truth if the PGBC had to take over this dog!
Click to expand...
PGBC only has 42 billion.. One take over (hundreds of funds out there) and its broke too.
 
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