TForce | 10 Hours of - Off Duty Time...

NiKDiesel

TB Regular
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How many of You out there have been asked by management - to calculate You ten (10) hours of - Off Duty Time... starting at the time that You arrive back at Your home terminal to: departure time... that evening?

Not... Swipe to Swipe = 10 Hours of Off Duty Time...

But, Arrival to Departure = 10 Hours of Off Duty Time...

Basically ignoring < Paid by the Hour > portion for D&H's, Dock Time (prior to the tour of duty), etc...

If You haven't been asked to do it this way... or You are able to complete Your tour of duty - well before the need... are You aware of this practice being in effect and or understood?

I understand - the legalities...

I just want to know if this is common...

And if this is one of those Overnite carry-overs... derived from the Point System - way of things...
 
Doesnt matter what they &quot;request&quot; of us. Ten hours is from when I finish out my log book at the end of my run, no sooner.
 
It would have to be from swipe to swipe.

After you return you have to drop out, post trip, log out.

Before you depart you have to pretrip,fuel, log up.

If you don't have 10 hours from swipe to swipe your time can be pulled up in an audit by the DOT. If this happens then it's on your shoulders for not taking the required 10 hours off not management.
 
It would have to be from swipe to swipe.

After you return you have to drop out, post trip, log out.

Before you depart you have to pretrip,fuel, log up.

If you don't have 10 hours from swipe to swipe your time can be pulled up in an audit by the DOT. If this happens then it's on your shoulders for not taking the required 10 hours off not management.
Your log book better match that swipe!
 
Haven't heard anything like that out in the wild west, but if they ask me to do it i'm gonna tell em to go pound sand.

If they ask you to do that, tell them you want them to ask you in front of a shop steward, or better yet, to put it in writing!
 
....mmm NK you like stirring the pot....:stirthepot:.. I know your comic book better reflect all your duties you performed that day...speaking of that.. of you out there how many are told to pretrip your tractor before swiping in...mmm..seems thats on-duty not driving and part of your 14 hr day (ok 14 for some of us normal folks:bowdown:)..so I see this as a issue of falsifying your log..think I`m going to revisit my habits....err bad-habits...

NK I can tell you this if you are involved in serious situation..not only will your comic book be ckd... your shorts will be ckd..and your flatulence will be ckd for trace elements..and that my friend is a personal testmonial......if you cant make that run legal..

DON`T RUN IT:Rulz:
..I remember a few years back they used to run MEM - GAF when it was 10hrs drive time..legally you coudn`t do it..road constructions, speed limits, what have you..of course we did it ..damn good money, but we could get away with it back then but not any more its your arse now..nope that tm might be all buddy-buddy right now but when the REAL $hit hits the fan....:smilie_132: you should have known better...

Tell the local of the practice...that`ll probably be all it takes...thats what MEM did loong before we where even union..some think it was another company`s driver but it was stopped for awhile..
 
....mmm NK you like stirring the pot....:stirthepot:..

Trust Me... this isn't stirring!

This is Real!

This is the other end of the spectrum - regarding the abuse of the 14 hour rule...

24 Hours in the day... apparently just isn't enough - for this company!

Where as I brought forth attention to how Central calculates Our time (for dispatching purposes)...

Same apparently held true - in regards to calculating the 10 hours off!

Prior to ratification... Overnite and then UPSF utilized the point system and then calculated all Hours of Service Times - in accordance to Departure Times and Arrival Times... for both the 14/16 Hour Rule and the 10 Hours of Off Duty Time...

Once We ratified... the understanding of Hours of Service changed!

We were now being Paid for All Time...

Meaning: that all Our records needed to reflect Our actual On Duty Times... since the Point System - had been eliminated...

Or though We thought!

UPSF (Central Dispatchers as well as TM's and Supervisors) made No changes to the understanding... they just assumed that everything was going to remain the same... and everything was going to continue to overlap each other...

On 3 different occasions (once before ratification and twice after) I was told that calculation for the 10 Hours of Off Duty time... started once I arrived back to My domicile and ended upon departure - that evening...

Not really a big deal - prior to ratification... Right?

I'm sure We all logged the same way (back then) - starting Our log a half hour prior to departure and showing a half hour for post trip... regardless of the actual times (keeping Us legal - for both the 14/16 and 10 off)

Now, once We ratified... I started running according to Actual Times... We had to (We were bound by a contract - requiring legal and truthful information and or documentation... in accordance to Our legal requirements and obligations)

No more burying Our times for Pre-Trips and Post-Trips (We were actually swiping In - creating a paper trial)

The Paper Trail doesn't exist!

Or at least it doesn't for DOT checks...

If We get DOT'd - Our Trip Cards and Logbooks are going to coincide...

The Problem is Internal!

Shut down the Truck and Central is going to tell You that Your 14/16 started at Departure...

Take Your 10 Hours Off - from the time You actually Swipe Out... forcing cut times to be missed... and be told that the 10 starts at time of arrival...

I know that this is happening elsewhere!

I've been told that this is the understanding as well as accepted practice within this company - by 2 different TM's and 1 Supervisor!

Which coincides with what I have been being told by Central (regarding their method of dispatching)

I just want to know where this thoughtology originated and where else this is being understood as acceptable...

_______________________________

I'm going to say it again:

I understand - the legalities...

I just want to know if this is common...

And if this is one of those Overnite carry-overs... derived from the Point System - way of things...

Apparently this was missed in My first post...



:smilie_132: I am running 100% legal and in accordance to DOT Regulations and Requirements!

And that includes My Logbook!

Which Is the Problem!
 
Its simple for me, I am either on duty or driving from the minute I am on company property to the minute I leave company property. 100% legal log book.
 
i'm with busternite, eather on duty or driving. i don't know why everybody makes it so complacated. in 35 yrs of driving never had a problem.
 
Let Me put this in perspective for You...

Those of You - doing Turns... more then likely aren't going to be affected and Your perfect lives will continue - unaffected!

Dramatic changes have changed the landscape of how out of touch with reality the Overnite mythology of administering Line Haul runs really was (and is)...

Peer into how Your terminal Runs are administered...

Starting with the Run numbers themselves...

These Run numbers mean something!

They are the DNA of Scheduling and Dispatching and in what order...

Now see the changes that weren't a contributing factor - in the Past...

Starting with Organizing and being bound by the legal requirements of a contract...

Flexibility with the Legal Requirements was acceptable and a significant part of life - prior to Ratification!

It was easy to < Right Your Own Check > before... wasn't it?

Then take in consideration the significant down turn in the Economy...

And the Serious Implications - as a result...

Lay-offs!

Significant Lay-offs!

Prior to this down turn... Overnite would just not schedule certain individuals for the next day...

These Lay-offs have created havoc not only with the City Operation but, with the Road!

Lay-offs of Road Drivers...

And the Elimination of Line Haul Runs...

Have now - Exposed the problem with Scheduling, Assigning of Loads, Dispatching and in what Order...

According to the DNA - structure...

Central Dispatchers are unaccustomed to Adjustment and or Flexibility!

Compound that with their inabilities of recognizing Road Drivers actual Start Times...

Under these current conditions... and with all the contributing factors involved...

Obviously, the Main Frame dispatching system needs to be Revamped!

I will guarantee You that they are still working with a system that is 15 years old - if not older!

Now bring all these contributing factors together...

Turns will remain - unaffected...

Mini-Hub runs will start to feel the crunch - factoring in the legal requirements of Hours of Service (although, most of the drivers that participate in these mini hub schedules have been doing it for a while [because they have built in that extra money from the dock time - into their weekly payroll expectations] they will be able to negotiate their needs more effectively - and will be allowed to complete their runs - within their legal limits... just because they have been doing it so long [they will be taken care of])...

Schedules and Undefined Schedules (leftovers from the economic reductions) are going to be the ones affected most significantly!

They are (obviously Myself included) are the ones that are going to be pushed to the legal limits in regards to Hours of Service... because there is no-one left over...

Central has not been permitted to use XTRA Board drivers - all winter...

If an XTRA Board does cover - that XTRA Board driver isn't dispatched according to Seniority Order... but, in accordance to what run that particular driver is covering...

Not allowing the one day relief necessary (or more - depending how long this XTRA Board driver covers) - permitting a Schedule driver to be released earlier then they have been (recently)

If Central and Hub personnel isn't going to listen to the people...

And they are not going to make adjustments in accordance to what is being communicated to them... when particular individuals expressing their need of being released prior to the normal extension of current dispatching conditions...

Then and only then is this problem going to occur!

The 16/14 and 10 Hours off will overlap...

And will not fully understood by anyone other then the Schedules affected - since they are the only ones being stretched beyond their legal limits... due to the economic down turn and work force reductions that weren’t a contributing factor just a few months ago!

This has only reared it's ugly head in recent months!

Shutting down and being told that Hours of Service in accordance to Centrals Past Understandings is different... then it really is...

Cannot be fully understood... unless You've done it or dealt with it personally!


i don't know why everybody makes it so complacated.

Because this place makes it difficult!

This company was built off of and administered around the Zero Tolerance Policy of the past...

This one policy provides the shield and blanketed cover (or cover-up) in many of these similar cases necessary for allowing them to operate un-touched and without boundaries!

Expose a problem (or potential concern) and You will become the problem and or concern!

Do it as they administer (because they are not going to change) or be taken out in accordance to the Zero Tolerance conditions (however general in nature they use it)
 
When we were busy we used to be told to be back in ten hours from time we punched off clock or would get two hour call after eight hours. Seems to be common practice when times are good. It beats laying 25-35 hours on other end due to no freight or weather despite getting layover/meal pay. Have had to lay many hours on other end and get home so late that barely had eight hours at home before schedule departure time. I would rather do that than not get out some nights as many are facing now !! Good luck!
 
NikDiesel if your having so many problems with hrs of service and the min-hub why don't you bid into another position at bid time,why drive yourself nuts on things that you can't control, or better yet become a manager and make things right, according to your vast knowledge of the operations you should be able to show UPS the light.
 
when someone posts somthing on here ther not always asking for help, sometimes there just trying to let others know what is going on elsewhere.
 
NikDiesel if your having so many problems with hrs of service and the min-hub why don't you bid into another position at bid time,why drive yourself nuts on things that you can't control

I guarantee that that is a large part of the problem too!

Instead of dealing with the issues... others have just bid off!

I will not walk away and force another brother or sister to pick up the pieces!


, or better yet become a manager and make things right, according to your vast knowledge of the operations you should be able to show UPS the light.

Thank-You for recognition!

Right now I prefer to shine that light directly into the eyes of those incapable of performing their jobs effectively!

I've carried My share of ineffective and unknowledgeable supervisors and managers... content on passing the buck and dumping what they couldn't handle - while cashing their checks as though they earned every dime...
 
nikdiesel take a lesson that an old master sergant taught me when i was young and thought the world revolved just for me. put your arm in a bucket of water and pull your arm out the hole that was left is how much you will be remembered when you are gone. live in the now for yourself and the good of your family thats all you have, forget what someone else may be left with, they will deal with in their own way, do your job and only yours what other people do or whats done in other places has no bearing on you and you have no control over it, you'll have a better day and a lot less stress.
 
By the time Obama gets through with the economy drivers won't be thinking about not having enough time off. Gripping about being to close to 10 hours or less won't be a problem. Myself, I'll be at the gate in 9 3/4 just waiting for the 10th hour so I can hit it again.
 
nikdiesel take a lesson that an old master sergant taught me when i was young and thought the world revolved just for me.

Is that really what You think is happening here?

I can deal with a lot... but, I will not tolerate someone implying that I am being selfish!

The world doesn't revolve around just Me!

Nor would I bother trying to discuss all of this if it didn't affect more then Myself!

Not to mention the legality of the whole issue (s)...


put your arm in a bucket of water and pull your arm out the hole that was left is how much you will be remembered when you are gone. live in the now for yourself and the good of your family thats all you have, forget what someone else may be left with, they will deal with in their own way, do your job and only yours what other people do or whats done in other places has no bearing on you and you have no control over it, you'll have a better day and a lot less stress.

Spare Me this BS! :loser: :loser: :loser: :loser:
 
By the time Obama gets through with the economy drivers won't be thinking about not having enough time off. Gripping about being to close to 10 hours or less won't be a problem. Myself, I'll be at the gate in 9 3/4 just waiting for the 10th hour so I can hit it again.

You guys have to put all this in the right perspective. I can see by your posts that yes we do have problems. But I'm sure there are a lot of drivers out there right now that would love to have our problems just to have a job. One that pays as good as ours.
Just a little pep talk here. Let's all do the best we can. I have always found if you do your job and you know it if you do a good job or not. The company will benefit and we all will have a bright future. We will settle all this other junk as we go.

Your perspective is out of touch with reality - relating to Hour of Service!

Just because the world is where it is at...

Does not make it right to abuse what is protected by law!

Taking a backseat approach to the improvement of Our working conditions is pathetic!

Especially in the case of those actually in position of protection from such abuse in their own terminals...
 
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