Watch it Jimmy, some of these guys can be vicious and put you on "ignore". You'll never recover from the pain.
Yellow | 89 days
- Thread starter realityofitall
- Start date
Watch it Jimmy, some of these guys can be vicious and put you on "ignore". You'll never recover from the pain.
You do realize- I'll talk to a telephone pole if it doesn't run away!
No I’m just honest how I feel about this company, and the IBT. And I really don’t care who likes it or doesn’t.
You realize, you get more bees with honey, than with crap????
How ya Doing????
Unless one is hunting flies?
What many people are not taking into account on the debate in regards to H&W plans for both Union and Non Union outfits are the provisions directed in the ACA (Obamacare plan) and it’s overall impact and implications. While it is true, traditionally Union outfits are afforded better packages overall, the wrench thrown in was the advent of Obamacare.
Even back in 2009 with the Great Recession and financial problems, mind you self inflicted, by over expansion and purchasing of competitor companies by Yellow at the time in the mid 2000’s, what wasn’t taken into account at the time was the looming healthcare changes that were around the corner.
When debate initially began with the new administration at the time (Obama administration) the Unions, including the Teamsters were told that they were going to get a certain degree of exemptions and waivers for the future Healthcare Act. To garner support for the act from members as well as leadership some were actually implemented, but had expiration dates. Even Trumpka from the AFL-CIO initially favored the act, but later criticized it due to its ever evolving nature and the fact that the Unions were not allowed “Locked” status.
It is very easy for those of us at the time, and even today that were sheltered under the provisions that allowed “Gold Plated” plans to look across the road to Non-Union outfits and compare healthcare plans, and say “well we have the better plans, and that is the reason to stick it out”, what most here in this debate fail to account for is that the Non-Union outfits were not afforded even the slight discrepancy’s in the Act and had to fully comply to all the mess that was put in initially and its ever evolving requirements.
Sure the non’s have more obligations financially on behalf of the employees and their plans are inferior in many respects. But something you need to take into account is that the sunset period for the Unions has actually come and gone. 2018 for example there were provisions that employers had to contend with of triggering what was called the Cadillac Tax.
From this article you can see a glimpse of what the employer is facing, this impacts the Union outfits more so than the Non’s due to the fact the non’s have been facing these challenges all along:
“
Even back in 2009 with the Great Recession and financial problems, mind you self inflicted, by over expansion and purchasing of competitor companies by Yellow at the time in the mid 2000’s, what wasn’t taken into account at the time was the looming healthcare changes that were around the corner.
When debate initially began with the new administration at the time (Obama administration) the Unions, including the Teamsters were told that they were going to get a certain degree of exemptions and waivers for the future Healthcare Act. To garner support for the act from members as well as leadership some were actually implemented, but had expiration dates. Even Trumpka from the AFL-CIO initially favored the act, but later criticized it due to its ever evolving nature and the fact that the Unions were not allowed “Locked” status.
It is very easy for those of us at the time, and even today that were sheltered under the provisions that allowed “Gold Plated” plans to look across the road to Non-Union outfits and compare healthcare plans, and say “well we have the better plans, and that is the reason to stick it out”, what most here in this debate fail to account for is that the Non-Union outfits were not afforded even the slight discrepancy’s in the Act and had to fully comply to all the mess that was put in initially and its ever evolving requirements.
Sure the non’s have more obligations financially on behalf of the employees and their plans are inferior in many respects. But something you need to take into account is that the sunset period for the Unions has actually come and gone. 2018 for example there were provisions that employers had to contend with of triggering what was called the Cadillac Tax.
From this article you can see a glimpse of what the employer is facing, this impacts the Union outfits more so than the Non’s due to the fact the non’s have been facing these challenges all along:
“
- Consider the potential cost of the Cadillac tax starting in 2018. Employers with high-cost plans need to determine how to avoid triggering the Cadillac tax in 2018, which will impose a 40 percent excise tax on administrators of plans providing coverage that costs more than $10,200 a year for single and $27,500 a year for plus-one or family coverage. These thresholds may be adjusted for inflation and for employers whose health care costs are higher in certain high-risk professions. If the employer does not anticipate the overall cost of their coverage in 2018 (including both the employer and employee shares of the cost) and restrict it through plan design, the employer will face the added cost of the Cadillac tax.
- Consider the cost of providing coverage to children and providing (or not providing) coverage to spouses. Significantly, the ACA does not require employers to provide coverage for spouses and does not penalize employers for excluding spouses from coverage, so employers will need to evaluate the potential savings from excluding spouses from eligibility for health coverage. The ACA, however, treats children differently: employers face a penalty under the ACA if they do not offer coverage to their full-time employees' children, including adult children up to age 26.
- Consider the added cost of the ACA's various fees. Self-insured employers will owe a "transitional reinsurance fee" in 2015, 2016, and 2017; for the first year, the fee is at the rate of $63 per covered life. In addition, for a single-employer plan, the employer must pay a "patient-centered outcomes research institute fee," which is $2 per covered life payable in the years 2014–2020.”
All along in this process the elephant in the background for YRC and the Union has been the implications drafted in the ACA.
While we in the Union had the one bragging right over the Non’s with the H&W package, the weight of the elephant kept growing.
It is no secret, and should never be so, that the 15% giveback was to help offset the costs of the Healthcare Package. Much debate on this issue has been bantered about to no end, but when you examine it fully, this was something that the employer (YRC in this case) needed to stay operational, and the Union leadership in Washington knew this.
One of the largest overhead costs of any company is employee’s. It’s a double edged sword because you need the employee’s to do the work, while at the same time having to figure out how to balance out the cost.
From our perspective it is easy to fling arrows in all directions. And make no doubt I am right there with you with the longbow flinging those arrows, but we do not take into account is the fact that events and development’s that were totally out of our control created a perfect storm facing this company as well I dare say The Teamster freight division as a whole.
We can point to golden parachutes by the executives all we want, those were contracts that they negotiated and in the end does nothing to change what was negotiated for the members.
We can point to the fact that by NO right Yellow should have entered into purchasing of Roadway and USF at the time that they did.
We can point to the fact that once they overextended themselves, a Recession of the magnitude that we experienced, and a shift overall in the industry starting to occur, as well as a national healthcare plan that placed obligations upon providers of a magnitude unheard of before overall created a storm that this corporation really was not prepared for, nor able to adjust for.
While we in the Union had the one bragging right over the Non’s with the H&W package, the weight of the elephant kept growing.
It is no secret, and should never be so, that the 15% giveback was to help offset the costs of the Healthcare Package. Much debate on this issue has been bantered about to no end, but when you examine it fully, this was something that the employer (YRC in this case) needed to stay operational, and the Union leadership in Washington knew this.
One of the largest overhead costs of any company is employee’s. It’s a double edged sword because you need the employee’s to do the work, while at the same time having to figure out how to balance out the cost.
From our perspective it is easy to fling arrows in all directions. And make no doubt I am right there with you with the longbow flinging those arrows, but we do not take into account is the fact that events and development’s that were totally out of our control created a perfect storm facing this company as well I dare say The Teamster freight division as a whole.
We can point to golden parachutes by the executives all we want, those were contracts that they negotiated and in the end does nothing to change what was negotiated for the members.
We can point to the fact that by NO right Yellow should have entered into purchasing of Roadway and USF at the time that they did.
We can point to the fact that once they overextended themselves, a Recession of the magnitude that we experienced, and a shift overall in the industry starting to occur, as well as a national healthcare plan that placed obligations upon providers of a magnitude unheard of before overall created a storm that this corporation really was not prepared for, nor able to adjust for.
Leading into that 2008 contract there was so much unknown facing the Union as well as the employer. While we did settle on that contract initially, the works for what occurred in 2009 were already taking place in the background between the employer and the International. Don’t be fooled that they were not!
Just about every company out there have some sort of concession during the Recession, when in 2014 they came back to us and asked for the extension to 2019 it was quite obvious that YRC continued to skate on thin ice. To this day that ice has continued to grow thinner for a whole plethora of reasons.
In recent days, I have been pointing out the shift in the industry in some of my posts. While doing so I want to make clear that I am not complaining, nor belittling what occurred at YRC/Holland/New Penn or the Union. I am strictly trying to make aware of the fact that there are larger things occurring that most do not take into account in regards to this industry as well as labor in this industry.
That being said; I do wish and pray that some semblance of balance will occur in this upcoming contract. One thing that needs to stop though is the demeaning of the Non’s.
Those Guys & Gals go out each and everyday just like you and I, and face the same challenges and hardships that we do. They were not afforded the same provisions in regards to the sunset period of the ACA as the Unions were and that was no fault of their own. Sure we can say well they should have been Union and we can say that they should have been organized, but in many respects outside of certain “protections” and the H & W up to this point, they have actually been better off than what has been offered here.
Going into April reality is and I do believe most realize that not only is YRC not on a strong footing right now, but a return to the “Old Days” is just not practical at this time. I do believe many of us have really known this all along, but when you witness other companies in our same field in comparison doing ok even with the challenges they face, a return to the top is not a realistic reality.
A strike would kill YRC and that’s a fact! Unfortunately that is the only real point of leverage Labor has, but it will not be employed as Labor knows the thin ice the company faces. A full return to fully funded pensions is not a realistic thing either.
Offering some sort of split between contributions to a 401k and continued partial contribution to the exsisting pension to help fund past and present obligations would be a equitable offer.
An increase, even a tiered one to bring the payscale up to competitive wages to the Non’s has to occur. Even if the 15% is returned there will be a concession of some sort to contribute to the H&W otherwise the company will not be able to survive.
I get it stand strong, we are Union, and all, but in all reality neither the company nor the Union is in positions of strength overall in the industry anylonger. Both are in survival mode and with the evolution taking place in the industry as well as outside obligations due to government and competitive forces, the chances of return are slim. It is a tough pill to swallow after so much sacrifice, but it is the pill that is on the table.
Personally looking from the outside in now and considering things from a business standpoint, the short term thing to do would be to agree to a degree of demands from labor to the extent to keep the doors open, while growing other divisions such as HRNY and contractor based operations.
Restructure, Reduce, Reshape the portfolio. The two largest factors of overhead is Labor and equipment. The aging fleet of rollingstock and overall cost of replacement under current circumstances is a nut to big to swallow, factor in restrictions and obligations related to labor, and it is a mountain that may just be to high to climb.
Honestly I do believe this is the plan in regards to this company.
Just about every company out there have some sort of concession during the Recession, when in 2014 they came back to us and asked for the extension to 2019 it was quite obvious that YRC continued to skate on thin ice. To this day that ice has continued to grow thinner for a whole plethora of reasons.
In recent days, I have been pointing out the shift in the industry in some of my posts. While doing so I want to make clear that I am not complaining, nor belittling what occurred at YRC/Holland/New Penn or the Union. I am strictly trying to make aware of the fact that there are larger things occurring that most do not take into account in regards to this industry as well as labor in this industry.
That being said; I do wish and pray that some semblance of balance will occur in this upcoming contract. One thing that needs to stop though is the demeaning of the Non’s.
Those Guys & Gals go out each and everyday just like you and I, and face the same challenges and hardships that we do. They were not afforded the same provisions in regards to the sunset period of the ACA as the Unions were and that was no fault of their own. Sure we can say well they should have been Union and we can say that they should have been organized, but in many respects outside of certain “protections” and the H & W up to this point, they have actually been better off than what has been offered here.
Going into April reality is and I do believe most realize that not only is YRC not on a strong footing right now, but a return to the “Old Days” is just not practical at this time. I do believe many of us have really known this all along, but when you witness other companies in our same field in comparison doing ok even with the challenges they face, a return to the top is not a realistic reality.
A strike would kill YRC and that’s a fact! Unfortunately that is the only real point of leverage Labor has, but it will not be employed as Labor knows the thin ice the company faces. A full return to fully funded pensions is not a realistic thing either.
Offering some sort of split between contributions to a 401k and continued partial contribution to the exsisting pension to help fund past and present obligations would be a equitable offer.
An increase, even a tiered one to bring the payscale up to competitive wages to the Non’s has to occur. Even if the 15% is returned there will be a concession of some sort to contribute to the H&W otherwise the company will not be able to survive.
I get it stand strong, we are Union, and all, but in all reality neither the company nor the Union is in positions of strength overall in the industry anylonger. Both are in survival mode and with the evolution taking place in the industry as well as outside obligations due to government and competitive forces, the chances of return are slim. It is a tough pill to swallow after so much sacrifice, but it is the pill that is on the table.
Personally looking from the outside in now and considering things from a business standpoint, the short term thing to do would be to agree to a degree of demands from labor to the extent to keep the doors open, while growing other divisions such as HRNY and contractor based operations.
Restructure, Reduce, Reshape the portfolio. The two largest factors of overhead is Labor and equipment. The aging fleet of rollingstock and overall cost of replacement under current circumstances is a nut to big to swallow, factor in restrictions and obligations related to labor, and it is a mountain that may just be to high to climb.
Honestly I do believe this is the plan in regards to this company.
twisted-hippie
Twisted Herb Plantation CEO
- Credits
- 153
Very well said. I think we need to study this comment very closely and dissect what Toby is saying. We all need to start looking ahead instead of the rear view mirror.
I agree with not demeaning the nons they face same struggles every day that we do and some more.
realityofitall
TB Regular
- Credits
- 259
84 days 60 working as of 1/6/19