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ABF | ABF Responds

runawaytrain said:
And now his chance is lost forever. Today’s Teamsters is just a shadow of it’s former self and for that you can thank Hoffa. He could have made a real difference but instead he sold you guys out. Now it’s time to kick his sorry ass out at your first opportunity. He’s a disgrace to what was once a proud organization. Now the Teamsters are just a laughing stock in the LTL community because of Hoffa. He says he saved YRC from bankruptcy thus saving thousands of jobs but in that process he destroyed the Teamsters dignity and leverage. Perhaps he could have met them somewhere in the middle but instead he just caved. Pathetic leadership has destroyed the Teamsters.
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Let's start with this one question...

What would you say is more important right now... focusing on getting Junior's sorry ass out of there or concentrating on getting a fair and decent contract?
 
Docker said:
Let's start with this one question...

What would you say is more important right now... focusing on getting Junior's sorry ass out of there or concentrating on getting a fair and decent contract?
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You must prioritize at this point because the damage has been done. Get the contract. Whether it will be fair is another story. Hoffa is a great Snake Oil salesmen. Hopefully the members won’t be sold that easy this time.
 
canaryinthemine said:
Well,......as far as organizing goes,......that's a two-part problem.....

You have to have non-Union guys unafraid of company retaliation to ....organize.

We could've had Abraham Lincoln as President of the Teamsters,........and the organizing effort wouldn't have been any better. The main part of organizing,....as spelled out in NLRB laws,.......is that the employees involved....have to take RESPONSIBILITY for the organizing. It is illegal for any Union to...."hold the hands"..... of any group looking to organize...

I guess in a lot of places,....the...."Spirit of '76"...is.....ahh....dead.....

Not to alleviate Mr. Hoffa of mendacity,.....He has his share......

But,......Organizing is not one of his major..."crimes"......

...(....By the way,....company retaliation in an organizing campaign,...is illegal.....But, you've got to have guys willing to .....fight...for their rights..........Non-Union companies count on guys not having the....guts....to do so..)......
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The point I was trying to make and maybe I did not do a good job of doing, is this, when Hoffa was elected if organizing was a top priority he would have had legions(us guys) of good-will ambassadors on the streets talking up organizing like crazy. In my opinion the enthusiasm of todays members has been pretty well dulled by years of disappointing contracts, grievance outcomes, and scarcity of visits from the locals to the barns. The new guys today have no reference to the way it was, how good it could be and they don't have much good-will to pass around on the streets to the nons.
 
runawaytrain said:
You must prioritize at this point because the damage has been done. Get the contract. Whether it will be fair is another story. Hoffa is a great Snake Oil salesmen. Hopefully the members won’t be sold that easy this time.
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That's right... we must prioritize and get that damn fair and decent contract. You keep talking all this crap about not getting Junior out but what you neglect to even consider that if wasn't for the fact that we just don't have the numbers any more in trucking and parcel to get that done at the moment.

How about you telling me just how many members are in the trucking division and parcel division these days compared to how many are in the Teamster's union as a whole?

And here's another thing... if many of the non-unions like yourself would actually like to see the Teamster union be what it once was... they wouldn't just be condemning it like you... they would actually be willing to try and do something about it. After all... I think that even you realize that you wouldn't be getting what you are today if it weren't for the Teamster union.
 
I think it will be a matter of the company pulling out all the....propaganda....tricks again,....to "sell" this contract.

The subtle "hints" of company closure work real well on the bottom of seniority lists,....especially in smaller barns...

TM's forming....."personal"....relationships with their employees,....so they can quietly spread fear and dissension on a one-on-one basis......as "friends".......

"News" releases in trade magazines,....that turn out to be pure specious malarkey,.....worked real well last contract.......I suppose we'll see them again.....

ABF doesn't need to win real big......Just "big" enough to carry a ....majority. Time for all the Stewards out there to take in hand the timid and querelous,...and "educate"..them on how the last concessionary contract got passed.

Erine Soehl,.......coming from the rank-and-file like he says he does,..........has a chance to make himself the Hero of the Labor movement,..........if he has the courage........

Fric(Tyson) and Frac(Gordon).......just didn't care,......didn't matter if it was incompetence, or complicity.......

And......they are now relegated to the Dustbin of Labor History.....with the other garbage......

C'mon, Ernie!.....Like I said.....get a good contract,...and we'll erect a plywood statue of you here in this area.....
 
Docker said:
That's right... we must prioritize and get that damn fair and decent contract. You keep talking all this crap about not getting Junior out but what you neglect to even consider that if wasn't for the fact that we just don't have the numbers any more in trucking and parcel to get that done at the moment.

How about you telling me just how many members are in the trucking division and parcel division these days compared to how many are in the Teamster's union as a whole?

And here's another thing... if many of the non-unions like yourself would actually like to see the Teamster union be what it once was... they wouldn't just be condemning it like you... they would actually be willing to try and do something about it. After all... I think that even you realize that you wouldn't be getting what you are today if it weren't for the Teamster union.
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I’m not avoiding this discussion Docker, you make great points that I will address. But right now I’m getting ready for work and can’t get into it right now. In a little over a month I will be retired and will have plenty of time. Just hold on and try to find some patience. We will have our time.
 
jimk849 said:
The point I was trying to make and maybe I did not do a good job of doing, is this, when Hoffa was elected if organizing was a top priority he would have had legions(us guys) of good-will ambassadors on the streets talking up organizing like crazy. In my opinion the enthusiasm of todays members has been pretty well dulled by years of disappointing contracts, grievance outcomes, and scarcity of visits from the locals to the barns. The new guys today have no reference to the way it was, how good it could be and they don't have much good-will to pass around on the streets to the nons.
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Good points......and that puts the onus of "cheerleading" the Union squarely on.....the rank-and-file.

Sadly,....I'll have to agree that sometimes, we are our own worst enemy,.....when it comes to supporting our Unions.

Leadership is.....temporary..Always has been....But, the rank-and-file is....Permanent,....and the idea of Unionism, as backed up by the First Amendment is simply not understood enough by the non-Union guys,......and taken as common knowledge by the Union guys.....

Go to the monthly meetings,...wear the Union jacket/hat/pin.......act Professionally at all times , to denote you're at the pinnacle of your profession,.....UNDERSTAND that Union membership is fighting for your Constitutional rights in the workplace,.....instead of losing them when you punch the timeclock,........

Do all these things, and you become the Best recruitment tool your Local has.......

Regardless of what you think of the....temporary....Leader running things now......
 
runawaytrain said:
I’m not avoiding this discussion Docker, you make great points that I will address. But right now I’m getting ready for work and can’t get into it right now. In a little over a month I will be retired and will have plenty of time. Just hold on and try to find some patience. We will have our time.
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Then how about refraining about it now if you can’t get into it right now because at the moment... we have more pressing issues at hand than topics that you want to bring up and can't finish right at the moment? If you really hoped and wanted to see us get a fair and decent contract like you say... you would be helping to educate those ignorant and weak Teamsters that you talk about instead of just condemning them.
 
jimk849 said:
According to ABF only a small number of employees represented by O'Brien would be affected. Classic divide and conquer. I for one admire O'Brien for his willingness to publicly take on the Teamster national leadership. Seems to me Hoffa is nothing more than a member of the Lucky Sperm Club. If his name was not Hoffa he never would have been elected in the first place, and yes I voted for him when he first ran. what an empty suit he turned out to be imho. I honestly thought at that time that we would see a huge and effective drive to organize the nons. That was over twenty years ago when the chances of succeeding were higher than they are today. What a major disappointment.
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Remove an 8% funding increase
ABF would be correct about the small number being affected in the NE pension fund, the only one to speak up! An 8% reduction in future contributions will affect all pensions. You just won't know how until after this proposal or one like it passes. In one hand ABF says O'Brien is wrong about the effects it would have then in the other hand they are saying what are you worrying about? it's only around 200 Teamsters! Which is it?
 
Docker said:
Who said you were dumb?

As for the troll part... what do you call someone that comes to the ABF forum and tries telling the ABF Teamsters what to do?

Your quote...



After all... someone can easily say... tell LEHIGH vALLEY to mind its own frekin business! This is a damn ABF Teamster matter! And that seems pretty simple to little old me. But this is what I do know... I'm tired of seeing some trolls doing nothing but come here with nothing to offer but BS one or two line posts because there are some who do not work for ABF that do offer relevant insight and useful information... which I do consider contributing and appreciate as well.
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As to the "Details" of your contract I will as you say "Mind my own business"
But when a Company tries to devide the Union then I don't give a fat ****in hoot in hell wither I work for them or not. SCREW ABF for putting out a B.S. sheet attacking ANYONE in our (Not their) Union.
An attack on one? remember that little line of though?
Now if members go after the Union (I.E. TDU or anyone wanting to express their point of view) then it's as they say Game on!!!
 
LEHIGH vALLEY said:
As to the "Details" of your contract I will as you say "Mind my own business"
But when a Company tries to devide the Union then I don't give a fat ****in hoot in hell wither I work for them or not. SCREW ABF for putting out a B.S. sheet attacking ANYONE in our (Not their) Union.
An attack on one? remember that little line of though?
Now if members go after the Union (I.E. TDU or anyone wanting to express their point of view) then it's as they say Game on!!!
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What... it's Ok with you seeing that nobody has been dividing the members more than the IBT itself has been for decades? Wake up... the IBT is in bed with ABF now... as a matter of fact.... they have a threesome going on with YRC and ABF Straight Talk had the IBT's blessing!!! What rock have you been hiding under since 2010!!!
 
LEHIGH vALLEY said:
SCREW ABF for putting out a B.S. sheet attacking ANYONE in our (Not their) Union.
An attack on one? remember that little line of though?
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How about SCREW THE IBT even more than ABF... at least you're not paying ABF to represent you. How about thinking about that next time you decide to go on a rant?
 
Docker said:
How about SCREW THE IBT even more than ABF... at least you're not paying ABF to represent you. How about thinking about that next time you decide to go on a rant?
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Seeings how your missing the point I'll try one last time.
When a Company (Any Company) tries to attack a Union leader I attack back. It's not their place to do that. Right or wrong it's not their place.
Your contract is just that, Your contract. to vote up or down based on the facts. Not on some damm B.S. flyer put out by management.
I never stuck my nose into the details of the abf contract. I simply told management to pound sand when it comes to attacking a New England Union leader. Dosen't have to be out of my local.
Remember an attack on one is an attack on all!
Hell if abf attacked Hoffa or tdu I would still post the same damn thing!
It's not being a troll, It's expressing my anger about management tatics!
 
Docker said:
How about SCREW THE IBT even more than ABF... at least you're not paying ABF to represent you. How about thinking about that next time you decide to go on a rant?
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Oh yea, If you personally wanna attack the IBT then by all means do so. That is one of the reasons this site is up and running! To let People "Rant" about issues before they go to work and get into trouble.
Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing ain't it?
 
LEHIGH vALLEY said:
Seeings how your missing the point I'll try one last time.
When a Company (Any Company) tries to attack a Union leader I attack back. It's not their place to do that. Right or wrong it's not their place.
Your contract is just that, Your contract. to vote up or down based on the facts. Not on some damm B.S. flyer put out by management.
I never stuck my nose into the details of the abf contract. I simply told management to pound sand when it comes to attacking a New England Union leader. Dosen't have to be out of my local.
Remember an attack on one is an attack on all!
Hell if abf attacked Hoffa or tdu I would still post the same damn thing!
It's not being a troll, It's expressing my anger about management tatics!
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First off nobody tells me what to do... and that's the point you're missing. And here's another point your missing... the company has the IBT's blessing to attack a union leader... so just how sad is that? The IBT also wanted the company to show the members the company's propaganda video. I could go on but the point is... you don't know squat what has been going on for the last 8 years between ArcBest... the IBT and the members... but yet come here and try telling me what the hell to do. Yes... you quote me... and try giving me an order to do what I have been doing all along... jumping all over Arcbest and the IBT for almost a decade now. All that does is show me your ignorance and makes you an ass in my book.

You say that when a company tries to attack a Union leader that you attack back... that's asinine!!! Junior... Gordy... Turncoat Tyson... and now Ernie are nothing but POS who I would never defend!!! It's members like you that makes the non-unions think that all of us do nothing but blindly follow our leadership. How about waking the hell up and take a good look at what has been going on in the last decade. The IBT has been making fools out of all of us... and that includes ABF and YRC Teamsters both. Do you think that the non unions are stupid and don't see what is going on?

If you really want to express you anger properly... how about expressing it at the IBT first and foremost!!! After all... both the IBT and the company are teaming up when attacking Sean O'Brien... another thing that the non unions have been watching. I don't know where you're from but where I'm from... that makes the IBT the lowest of lows!!! Members like you are going to have to start opening your damn eyes and quit following blindly if we ever want to stand a chance of organizing more of the non unions and getting them on board because they have their eyes wide open!!!
 
LEHIGH vALLEY said:
Oh yea, If you personally wanna attack the IBT then by all means do so. That is one of the reasons this site is up and running! To let People "Rant" about issues before they go to work and get into trouble.
Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing ain't it?
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Trust me... I sure will continue to attack the IBT and I don't give a rat's ass if I have your blessing or not!!! How's that for Freedom of Speech??? I will also be attacking those like yourself who blindly follow our leadership too because that's one of the main reasons the Rank and File is lacking the respect of everyone and is in the state of disarray we find ourselves in these days.
 
Docker said:
Trust me... I sure will continue to attack the IBT and I don't give a rat's ass if I have your blessing or not!!! How's that for Freedom of Speech??? I will also be attacking those like yourself who blindly follow our leadership too because that's one of the main reasons the Rank and File is lacking the respect of everyone and is in the state of disarray we find ourselves in these days.
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The real blessing is pay increases and a bonus. I Need that 1000 bad. Yes!!yes!yes!....
 
Rollin62 said:
The real blessing is pay increases and a bonus. I Need that 1000 bad. Yes!!yes!yes!....
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Take a good look LEHIGH vALLEY because here's a perfect example of how many company kiss ass imbeciles we have running amok amongst the Rank and File these days. And it's hard to tell just who's ass they kiss more... the company's or the IBT's.
 
Rollin62 said:
The real blessing is pay increases and a bonus. I Need that 1000 bad. Yes!!yes!yes!....
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Sorry Docker, I can’t let this one pass. Are you ****ing kidding me? You are extremely short sighted Rollin62. Do you realize how much FedEx got this past year? Almost all nons are getting close to a buck each year and FedEx got even more. You didn’t even get caught up for all the years you got ****ed and the vacation and pension.... Well , I won’t even go there. If you vote “Yes” on this proposal then you are one of the biggest fools on this board.
 
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