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ABF | ABF's future if Yellow Roadway close?

Rogerthat said:
Why would you want a 401k:nutkick:, look at your 401k...what down 30-40%. To retire you need 750k minimum. Now it drops to 400k where are you going with that for the rest of your life. With a whooping 401k , you can only retire when the market is up, down years you have to stay working???

These older people now are living on pensions not 401's,the ones that are not from a pension job are 70 years old working at Burger king to survive this environment. Thank God we have a pension and I hope everyone gets to enjoy that HUGE pension benefit we get for working freight for 30+ years.

My pension is going to give me the same amount for the rest of my life and my wife is taken care of for hers. That is the best deal going by far!!!!! HANDS DOWN:woot:
Buying out of the pension is just one way to line the pockets of company's managements retirement plans.:chairshot:

The pension is the only reason to stay in this industry and do the kind of hours and work we do. Think about it.....the hours we put in, 12 hour days ,the cold (burr) no heat on the docks, sit by the phone and work at a moments notice and the kids activities I have missed because of WORK calls. Just to name a few.

In closing:1036316054: I look forward to my pension and no way no how will they ever take that away with my approval.
I'm out!!!!!
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Boy o boy you have no clue you need to take econ 101 again. Where do you think you pension fund is invested and what happens as ther is decling enrollment in the teamster and more retires? Do you also believe in the black helicopter theroy?
 
mit4064 said:
ABF had the money. Teamsters would not allow it. Pretty short sighted if you ask me. The IBT hasn't proved that they can manage the money. ABF proposed giving 401K's. The money is yours to manage how you see fit.
Seems like a better system to me.
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First, the short sightedness was on the companies part, by trying to negotiate their way to pension freedom, teetered on the line from fairness to unfair labor practice. That is why they were not allowed to fully negotiate their own agreement. Our representatives who we have to negotiate the CBA is our IBT elected officials assigned to TNFINC. They were well aware of the goings on with regards to mandatory videos and publications. They were obviously not amused.

Second, the IBT does not control pensions. Nor do they control Health and Welfare funds. These are controlled by Trustees of the various plans. Depending on the plan, there are equal number of employer trustees and employee trustees. At no time was there a confirmed plan (401k or any others) to replace the pensions they were trying to withdraw from.

Third, you are free to open a 401k plan at anytime at ABF. The open enrollment is upcoming so if you choose to do so, now is the time.
 
Stan Smith said:
Other then UPS the future of the IBT is going to be outside the freight industry. Teachers, Police, Bakery, Printing, etc...
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I think your right i hate to say it, the ibt sat around and let all these non-union companys come in and did nothing . Now we are down to abf and the yrc companys way to go hoffa im shure jr is turning over in his grave some where.:chairshot:
 
scottman920 said:
I think your right i hate to say it, the ibt sat around and let all these non-union companys come in and did nothing . Now we are down to abf and the yrc companys way to go hoffa im shure jr is turning over in his grave some where.
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The IBT has not rested on organizing since James Hoffa took office. Certainly they have not been successful in organizing any of the big carriers yet, but you have to realize the labor laws regarding organizing are not in our favor. This coupled with millions of dollars spent on anti-organizing by the companies, makes the process almost impossible. The best thing that could ever happen is the passage of the Employee Free Choice Act, which would return the employees rights to be represented by a Union.
 
The BEST way that the IBT could have organized is to have taken better care of the TEAMSTERS they already have. If anyone thinks that the current leaders of our GREAT UNION have done anywhere near a good job they are only fooling themselves. We are twenty years behind where we should be. They have organized the railroad engineers and others but no TRUCK DRIVERS except UPS and then they had to sell out all the CENTRAL STATES PENISION TEAMSTERS. We now stand on the edge of disaster in the fund due partly to the IBT allowing them to opt out. What do all the supporters of HOFFA say about that GREAT MISTAKE. UPS contributed over one billion dollars a year into the said fund and they got out for a after tax contribution of three billion dollars in my math that is less than three years of the normal contributions. What do all of his supporters say about that. There has been harder times in this country and the TEAMSTERS have flourished in such times. This is when unions are supposed to grow during hard economic times. They are supposed to keep the wolves off of us while we work and grow our union and companies and they failed. This is not to say we are doomed as TEAMSTERS oh no we will over come all threats from outside and inside this you can be certain of.
 
Old AF said:
Hoffa Jr died? When did that happen?
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Well i did mean Sr you know that, that was a type o on my part, well lets put it this way hoffa jr has let the freight division almost die . The ibt needs to take care of us the freight divison we are the ones that started this great union. Yes we did get ups freight but they gave them a white paper contract and let them pull out of the central states this was a big mistake. If we ever strike they work how is this good?
 
Muler said:
The BEST way that the IBT could have organized is to have taken better care of the TEAMSTERS they already have. If anyone thinks that the current leaders of our GREAT UNION have done anywhere near a good job they are only fooling themselves. We are twenty years behind where we should be. They have organized the railroad engineers and others but no TRUCK DRIVERS except UPS and then they had to sell out all the CENTRAL STATES PENISION TEAMSTERS. We now stand on the edge of disaster in the fund due partly to the IBT allowing them to opt out. What do all the supporters of HOFFA say about that GREAT MISTAKE. UPS contributed over one billion dollars a year into the said fund and they got out for a after tax contribution of three billion dollars in my math that is less than three years of the normal contributions. What do all of his supporters say about that. There has been harder times in this country and the TEAMSTERS have flourished in such times. This is when unions are supposed to grow during hard economic times. They are supposed to keep the wolves off of us while we work and grow our union and companies and they failed. This is not to say we are doomed as TEAMSTERS oh no we will over come all threats from outside and inside this you can be certain of.
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Let's face the facts. Trucking is less than 10% of the union. We have had many successes in organizing here in Chicago. The IBT had set a goal of 40 thousand new Teamsters, and reached that goal. Do you have any idea how much it costs to go out on a cold organizing effort, or the amount of manpower it takes, to run an effective campaign? Have you or any one you know volunteered your your time in an organizing effort? The fact is that we, you, me, and everyone else that carries a union card is "the union". Any inference that Hoffa, and the elected leaders below are solely responsible for organizing, is a farce.

The IBT or Hoffa did not have a say in whether or not UPS paid the withdrawal liability and got approval of the CSPF trustees. The IBT did as it should have sent their representative to monitor the proceeding to make damn sure that everything that was done protected those members. The government also was there to make sure that there was no underhanded dealings either.

You know TDU can say what it wants, they have remarkable spin authors in their communications department. They can make you believe a brown horse is black. Their efforts to bury Hoffa have failed miserably. The thing they do best is put a question in the minds of the unorganized, whether or not the effort to become union members is worth it. Which makes the effort to do any organizing that much more difficult.

If anyone has any general questions about the union here is a good link to start.

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) | International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT)
 
Do you know HOFFA appointed all the Trustees from the union side sir because I do. Do you know HOFFA has complete say so as to who can and can not be organized. So you see his people let UPS opt out of CENTRAL STATES. Listen to your post you said HOFFA has nothing to do with organizing come on you know that is not true. Just for the record go to Central States web site and look at how many new members were brought into the fund last year. It damn sure wasn't 40'000 I'll tell you sir. Didn't HOFFA call for the strike that was done at OVERNITE several years ago? I know it was him because I helped during the strike. He is the President of all TEAMSTERS so yes he does have a say so in all matters. I can understand if you are a HOFFA supporter but please don't try and tell me a thirty years plus TEAMSTER about how great of a job he has done. And you are right we are now a very small part of the TEAMSTERS and you say that none of that is HOFFA's fault well sir I disagree. So if you lose your job as a Trucker you might get on as a railroad worker or a graphic artist or a Police Officer but chances are you wouldn't qualify for such jobs. But hey you keep telling me how great HOFFA is if it makes you feel better. They traded our pension fund for UPS Freight. You explain why my employer has to pay more for me than the richest Trucking company owner in America. Does that seem like a fair deal HOFFA gave UPS over YRC and ABF? All that the UPS Freight brought to the TEAMSTERS was a lot of dues paying people not Health and Welfare or they damn sure aren't helping in our retirement funds now are they? So please don't tell me what a great job he is doing.
 
Muler said:
Do you know HOFFA appointed all the Trustees from the union side sir because I do. Do you know HOFFA has complete say so as to who can and can not be organized. So you see his people let UPS opt out of CENTRAL STATES. Listen to your post you said HOFFA has nothing to do with organizing come on you know that is not true. Just for the record go to Central States web site and look at how many new members were brought into the fund last year. It damn sure wasn't 40'000 I'll tell you sir. Didn't HOFFA call for the strike that was done at OVERNITE several years ago? I know it was him because I helped during the strike. He is the President of all TEAMSTERS so yes he does have a say so in all matters. I can understand if you are a HOFFA supporter but please don't try and tell me a thirty years plus TEAMSTER about how great of a job he has done. And you are right we are now a very small part of the TEAMSTERS and you say that none of that is HOFFA's fault well sir I disagree. So if you lose your job as a Trucker you might get on as a railroad worker or a graphic artist or a Police Officer but chances are you wouldn't qualify for such jobs. But hey you keep telling me how great HOFFA is if it makes you feel better. They traded our pension fund for UPS Freight. You explain why my employer has to pay more for me than the richest Trucking company owner in America. Does that seem like a fair deal HOFFA gave UPS over YRC and ABF? All that the UPS Freight brought to the TEAMSTERS was a lot of dues paying people not Health and Welfare or they damn sure aren't helping in our retirement funds now are they? So please don't tell me what a great job he is doing.
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You are entitled to your OPINIONS. I respect the OPINION of other Teamsters.

First what I said was:

Any inference that Hoffa, and the elected leaders below are solely responsible for organizing, is a farce.
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I stand by that statement as being factual and the truth. I know what the HUGE undertaking organizing is. How many of the 40.000 new union members did your local organize? Our Local 710 was over one thousand, without, the new membership from UPS Freight.

I think that there are plenty of Executive Board members of the Joint Councils and Locals who would take issue with the appointment issue of the fund trustees. In our Local which is autonomous, voting trustees vote in vacancies, as they become available. As a matter of Law, if the non-appointed Union Officials get involved in anything to do with the day to day operations of any of the funds is a Federal crime. Any and all inferences of illegal tampering are quickly investigated by an appointed special prosecutor, assigned by the IRB. If the allegations are sustained, indictments are issued, and they have to answer to those charges, all of which are noted in the back of the Teamster Magazine, or easily found on the DC Circuit Court records. In addition, the Central States issue is a fraction of all of the programs in the system, so naturally you will not see 40,000 new contributors to that particular fund.

Hoffa is the General President. I think my Secretary-Treasurer, and President of Local 710 just might have almost 101% to say what goes on in the four walls of our union.

To be honest, I believe the strike at Overnite was voted on by the prospective membership, wasn't it? In addition, did you not know that the Court ordered Union Pacific Corporation to the table to negotiate a first contract? Further, did you know that the Union Pacific Corporation told the union that they can fight and fight all they want they will exhaust every penny in our bank in legal fees before they even think about going to any bargaining table? Did you write your Senators and Congressman to encourage the government to withdraw any further government subsidies the Union Pacific RR gets, still to this day, thereby funding their unfair labor practices?

I do not know what this means.
They traded our pension fund for UPS Freight.
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I am still at a loss to understand what you mean by this.
Does that seem like a fair deal HOFFA gave UPS over YRC and ABF?
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If you mean is it fair that UPS Freight got their own contract? To be honest about it, you would probably have to ask the UPSF people if they are happy with their contract.

Every new employer brought to the table brings different issues. Every employer by law is allowed to negotiate a fair contract with the union. What did Hoffa give away? I don't think Hoffa had any choices given the anti-union government we have in place. We have to follow the letter of the law. Otherwise, the employer opts out of the unionization by default, via the Federal District Court.

ABF had their golden opportunity to withdraw from the pension funds, and an opportunity to get their own contract. The problem is they beat us over the head with their "q-reports and team and safety reports" that eventually outlined their intentions. All this time knowing full well that our bargaining agents are our elected officials. Had they held their plans for the bargaining table, as they should have, things just might have gone their way.

Would I have supported a new contract for us here at ABF? Perhaps. I would have to be able to read in full all the agreed to terms. Would I have supported a withdrawal from our pension plan at 710? NO. Would I have supported a withdrawal from CSPF? If they gave the same deal as UPS package, yes. Any of the other funds? I cannot speak for anyone else on that matter.

In order to be brief, in another post you said this union is twenty years behind times. You also go on to say we organized railroad engineers, that of course is not true. The BLET and BMWED were existing unions that recognized the power and the forward momentum of the Teamsters, and merged in with us. As for the twenty years behind comment, you are right. A guy named Ron Carey, nearly bankrupted the International, gave away our right to strike with the NMFA and brought in the three tiered pay progression, and other major give away items, so he is the culprit that you need to focus your anger. Carey was also defeated by default when he was convicted of crimes that put this union in shame, and was lifetime banned from membership.

No you will not hear me say that I am a thirty year Teamster. I have been in the transportation industry for over thirty years. I have been a Teamster for nine of those years. I resisted joinng this union for years because of the members that talked against the union leaders.

Guess why organizing is as hard as it is?

Just as an aside, where do you derive your facts specifically about Mr. Hoffa? Just curious.
 
Quote:
(Any inference that Hoffa, and the elected leaders below are solely responsible for organizing, is a farce )
You would have to show me where you stated this before your last post. Nobody said they were the sole people for organizing. But they are in CHARGE of all organizing.( To be honest, I believe the strike at Overnite was voted on by the prospective membership, wasn't it? In addition, did you not know that the Court ordered Union Pacific Corporation to the table to negotiate a first contract? Further, did you know that the Union Pacific Corporation told the union that they can fight and fight all they want they will exhaust every penny in our bank in legal fees before they even think about going to any bargaining table? Did you write your Senators and Congressman to encourage the government to withdraw any further government subsidies the Union Pacific RR gets, still to this day, thereby funding their unfair labor practices?) I believe HOFFA and the IBT spent millions of the TEAMSTERS strike funds money on the Overnite strike so yes he was involved in the strike.

As a matter of fact we in my local pay into a ibt strike fund. Hoffa is the General President. I think my Secretary-Treasurer, and President of Local 710 just might have almost 101% to say what goes on in the four walls of our union.( If I'm not mistaken didn't HOFFA just have the IBT step in and get involved with settling your contract? I know so. (If you mean is it fair that UPS Freight got their own contract? To be honest about it, you would probably have to ask the UPSF people if they are happy with their contract.) Didn't you say it would have bordered on unfair labor practice if ABF had kept trying to withdrawal from the CSPF because they tried to negotiate directly with the members? So what your not saying is the IBT could have made joining CSPF a part of the contract but they chose not to.(No you will not hear me say that I am a thirty year Teamster. I have been in the transportation industry for over thirty years. I have been a Teamster for nine of those years. I resisted joining this union for years because of the members that talked against the union leaders.) I am not a blind follower. And as for your statement about Ron Carey I do believe all charges were dismissed against him so you again were wrong. And I do not bad mouth my union I have a right to my opinion and that is why I am a TEAMSTER for the freedom to say what I want and expect not to be punished. And as to where I get my facts just read and listen to your BROTHERS and SISTERS they will tell you how they feel. You still have a lot of nonunion in your beliefs. Like I should not speak out against things I feel are wrong. Well I will and have and I have been a successful representative for many TEAMSTERS for many years. As a matter of fact while you were out there bashing the union for many years I was saving TEAMSTER jobs and working conditions. How many times have you been victimized due to the fact you stood your ground for your fellow TEAMSTERS I sir have lost work for my protection of others and you talk as though I would be against my UNION I take offense to you even suggesting that would be the case. When you have given of yourself to this GREAT UNION as I have then you will see how someone will offend you by uniformed statements. As a matter of fact sir some of your working conditions you enjoy was won by me at another ABF location. If we ever get a chance to meet I am certain you will change your tone and your disrespect that you have shown me on this site. YOUR BROTHER ALWAYS.
 
Muler said:
Quote:
(Any inference that Hoffa, and the elected leaders below are solely responsible for organizing, is a farce )
You would have to show me where you stated this before your last post. Nobody said they were the sole people for organizing. But they are in CHARGE of all organizing.( To be honest, I believe the strike at Overnite was voted on by the prospective membership, wasn't it? In addition, did you not know that the Court ordered Union Pacific Corporation to the table to negotiate a first contract? Further, did you know that the Union Pacific Corporation told the union that they can fight and fight all they want they will exhaust every penny in our bank in legal fees before they even think about going to any bargaining table? Did you write your Senators and Congressman to encourage the government to withdraw any further government subsidies the Union Pacific RR gets, still to this day, thereby funding their unfair labor practices?) I believe HOFFA and the IBT spent millions of the TEAMSTERS strike funds money on the Overnite strike so yes he was involved in the strike.

As a matter of fact we in my local pay into a ibt strike fund. Hoffa is the General President. I think my Secretary-Treasurer, and President of Local 710 just might have almost 101% to say what goes on in the four walls of our union.( If I'm not mistaken didn't HOFFA just have the IBT step in and get involved with settling your contract? I know so. (If you mean is it fair that UPS Freight got their own contract? To be honest about it, you would probably have to ask the UPSF people if they are happy with their contract.) Didn't you say it would have bordered on unfair labor practice if ABF had kept trying to withdrawal from the CSPF because they tried to negotiate directly with the members? So what your not saying is the IBT could have made joining CSPF a part of the contract but they chose not to.(No you will not hear me say that I am a thirty year Teamster. I have been in the transportation industry for over thirty years. I have been a Teamster for nine of those years. I resisted joining this union for years because of the members that talked against the union leaders.) I am not a blind follower. And as for your statement about Ron Carey I do believe all charges were dismissed against him so you again were wrong. And I do not bad mouth my union I have a right to my opinion and that is why I am a TEAMSTER for the freedom to say what I want and expect not to be punished. And as to where I get my facts just read and listen to your BROTHERS and SISTERS they will tell you how they feel. You still have a lot of nonunion in your beliefs. Like I should not speak out against things I feel are wrong. Well I will and have and I have been a successful representative for many TEAMSTERS for many years. As a matter of fact while you were out there bashing the union for many years I was saving TEAMSTER jobs and working conditions. How many times have you been victimized due to the fact you stood your ground for your fellow TEAMSTERS I sir have lost work for my protection of others and you talk as though I would be against my UNION I take offense to you even suggesting that would be the case. When you have given of yourself to this GREAT UNION as I have then you will see how someone will offend you by uniformed statements. As a matter of fact sir some of your working conditions you enjoy was won by me at another ABF location. If we ever get a chance to meet I am certain you will change your tone and your disrespect that you have shown me on this site. YOUR BROTHER ALWAYS.
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The union's, any union's, primary purpose is to grow the union. Different tactics are necessary in different circumstances. The fact that UPSF came on board, especially after the debacle with Overnite, due to a useless NLRB, is a blessing. I don't give a damn who gets credit, I'm just happy it happened.
 
larry retired said:
The union's, any union's, primary purpose is to grow the union. Different tactics are necessary in different circumstances. The fact that UPSF came on board, especially after the debacle with Overnite, due to a useless NLRB, is a blessing. I don't give a damn who gets credit, I'm just happy it happened.
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Exactly on point.
 
Muler said:
Do you know HOFFA appointed all the Trustees from the union side sir because I do. Do you know HOFFA has complete say so as to who can and can not be organized. So you see his people let UPS opt out of CENTRAL STATES. Listen to your post you said HOFFA has nothing to do with organizing come on you know that is not true. Just for the record go to Central States web site and look at how many new members were brought into the fund last year. It damn sure wasn't 40'000 I'll tell you sir. Didn't HOFFA call for the strike that was done at OVERNITE several years ago? I know it was him because I helped during the strike. He is the President of all TEAMSTERS so yes he does have a say so in all matters. I can understand if you are a HOFFA supporter but please don't try and tell me a thirty years plus TEAMSTER about how great of a job he has done. And you are right we are now a very small part of the TEAMSTERS and you say that none of that is HOFFA's fault well sir I disagree. So if you lose your job as a Trucker you might get on as a railroad worker or a graphic artist or a Police Officer but chances are you wouldn't qualify for such jobs. But hey you keep telling me how great HOFFA is if it makes you feel better. They traded our pension fund for UPS Freight. You explain why my employer has to pay more for me than the richest Trucking company owner in America. Does that seem like a fair deal HOFFA gave UPS over YRC and ABF? All that the UPS Freight brought to the TEAMSTERS was a lot of dues paying people not Health and Welfare or they damn sure aren't helping in our retirement funds now are they? So please don't tell me what a great job he is doing.
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Ya know what? Go work for Fedex. You aint doin nobody no favor posting the BS on here the way you do. You dont know the first thing about this union except for what TDU tells ya. I walked side by side with Jimmy Hoffa in 1959, and about a dozen other organizing campains, got my head cracked, bustd arms in Detroit, so POS like you can come here and spew sship about this union. Dont tell Mikey he don't know ship, because he learned everything he knows about this union from me. If you wanna be union, support this union, right wrong or indifferent. If ya got a problem get to the microphone and open your mouth there if ya got all the testes that you think you got and STF up outside the hall.

Thats right I am the guy you didnt wanna hear from, ya know the thirty year guy, but wait hold on, I retired this year after 50 years. I forgot more than you can remember. So if you cant support every one in this union GTF out. Then damn the union to your hearts content. No body will give a ship. I voulunteed more time to this good of the Teamsters than you ever worked for a job. You got a problem, PM me before I leave to go back to Italy tomorrow. I got plenty of time in these green ABF trucks too, Art Lynch hired me when he was the terminal manger in Chicago. My first truck was a new R model Mack. You do such wonderful research you should be able to tell me Junior, about how long I worked at ABF.

To get back on track with this thread, yeah, if Bob D. kept his mouth shut and talked to the negotiators at the table this could be a whole different situation, pension health and welfare is mandatory subjects of discussion. In two weeks or so will be 45 years since I witnessed my good friend James R. Hoffa sign the first NMFA right here in Chicago. I was there when all that was goin on. Where were you? I had more to do with this union, and never ever asked for a freakin penny. When was the last time you stood side by side and get shot at by dumbash security guards that were scared shipless were were gonna hurt them. They were right. We woulda hert em if we could have got a hand on them. Thats the way we did the organizing back then, you didnt have a choice. Now there is laws to protect the companys ash, and nothing to make it even for the unions. You and TDU points the finger at Hoffa Jr. tellin everybody its on him that this union is twenty years behind, i got news for you. If it wernt for these williams, McCarthy Presser and most of all Carey SOBs we would be in the drivers seat. period. This is the ship you know from being there, nothing you can find in any history book or look up. I met James P Hoffa when he was a young boy. I know that he is doing more than any one else on planet earth could do with the situation we are in. Another eight years of republican anti-union administration has everything but killed the possibility of there ever being another man becoming a union member. I also met the POS leedham five years ago for the first time, and he is as dynamic as a frozen cannoli. I wouldnt trust him with a bag of dog ship, nevermind the checkbook for this union. Hoffa Jr. is the best most respectable thing that happened to this union since his father. I dont give a S what you think you think you know, because you dont. You just know what people tell ya.

And if anything ever happens to Hoffa, you guys would be out of your minds if you didnt put Patrick W F. Sec. Treas. from 710 in his place.

But I aint got nuttin to say about any of that no more because I am now a PROUD RETIREE.

Now I am going back to my home in Italy to enjoy the life I worked for. I love sitting on my veranda in the evening enjoying a nice anisette, and fresh rosettes, reminiscing about the times, struggles, fights, and enjoying the fruits of the labor movement of the early 60's. It saddens me though, that SOBs dont have the nads to step up to the microphone and air their grievances to the elected officials of their local, and instead spread ship on the internet without thinking first.
You guys HAVE to make the right choices for yourself. Walk a mile in the shoes of that man you criticize, before you make judgment, otherwise you are fooling yourself.

Best wishes to all my friends at ABF, and my Teamster brothers and sisters, for a happy healthy new year.

Ciao,
Nuckinfutz
 
Ronald Robert Carey (March 22, 1936 - December 11, 2008) was an American labor leader who served as president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters from 1991 to 1997. He was the first Teamster General President elected by a direct vote of the membership.[1][2] He ran for re-election in 1996 and won, but in 1997 federal investigators discovered that the Carey campaign had engaged in an illegal donation kickback scheme to raise more than $700,000 for the 1996 re-election effort.[3] His re-election was overturned, Carey was disqualified from running for Teamsters president again, and he was subsequently expelled from the union for life
 
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