New Penn | Alvan Freight Closes

[Friend of the frog]

There are a couple of other things to consider as it relates to the fuel surcharge.

If you just look at the freight bill your initial reaction would be that companies are making big bucks. In truth, when the FSC first came out 8-9 years ago that was true.

Since then, however, many customers have gotten tired of seeing large fuel surcharges and have gotten reduced fuel rates.

Other customers have negotiated general rate freezes on their basic rates in exchange for keeping FSC rates.

The point is that over the years there has been a lot of combining of General Rates and FSC rates to come to a bottomline number as to what the customer will pay for service. A significant portion of the FSC profit has been given back over time through these negotiations.

So things are not always exactly as they appear on the freight bill even though the FSC appears to be huge.

You can toe the company line all you want, but the truth is that over 75% of customers are paying full boat on the fuel. The way fuel surcharges are currently applied is not indicative of how much fuel is used by a carrier.

It would be more fair if the FSC was applied in relation to the weight of a shipment. Even that would be in inexact figure.

As long as fuel is going up a company is earning more. Period.

Some will argue the cost of tires has skyrocketed and the FSC covers that as well. This is true and a valid point, but again fuel is a money maker and a big one at that.

 

[imported_npmemanager]

I do not comment often but I feel I must. This nonsense about 75% of the customers is just that, nonsense. The FACT is that the cost of fuel is hurting New Penn. Most of our customers are not paying the "full" fuel surcharge. They have freezes, sliding scales, negotiated special rates, etc... The cost of fuel continues to go up put the money in our pockets does not. I challenge anyone who disagrees to put the facts on the table. New Penn is operating well and June was a good month but we are not profiting from the FSC. Please tell all of us where that 75% number came from.....I am all ears.

 

[Friend of the frog]

NPME reps are no different than the sales reps from any other trucking outfit. If you have guys that are trying to circumvent the system, then shame on the NPME pricing department for not catching and looking for accurate proof sources before approving any such fuel escalators.

With that being said I will stand 100% behind my statement that 75% of customers are paying full FSC rates. It is similar ration to customers who are not on current rate bases and are not subject to a company's GRI.

You can stand here and speak from your "manager's" desk and convince some of these drivers that NPME is giving away the house when it comes to fuel, but I am very, very, very familiar with NPME pricing and sales team and they are in the same position that every other carrier is in.

 

[imported_Top Freight]

I disagree that 75% pay the full scale. You are a long way off.

And the largest customers pay a lot less than full scale.

 

[sourpickle]

this is what I always tell my employer when I want to call it quits..."can't go to work because I can't afford to put gas in my car to get there, can you come pick me up? no? well, then I'll just have to shut my doors." Make sense and I'll respond with same..

I like that on wild deuce. I got to remember that one.

 

[Friend of the frog]

I disagree that 75% pay the full scale. You are a long way off.

And the largest customers pay a lot less than full scale.

OK you are right...you guys are always right and this is why you can never, ever have an intelligent conversation here anymore.

You guys talk out of both sides of your mouth and it really gets frustrating. On one side you say that NPME operates in the mid 70's. I even saw a thread on here that said there were terminals operating in the 50's and 60's.

HOW THE F**K DO YOU THINK THE O.R. IS SO GOOD ????????

Its because NPME has a quality service and the sales team can sell that service to a customer at the rate that they need.

Most customers do not have the leverage to hold a gun to your head and say lower the fuel.

Do some ?? Abso****inglutely. But most do not. What they would need to do is go to another carrier, proved them with invoices and the other carrier will take a swing at the base rate.

Once a pricing department sees that a customer is paying full fuel, they are not going to touch the fuel.

Another question for you know it alls....Do you know that NPME applies their fuel in different applications ???

They will apply it on the net for most and on the gross for others. HELLO !!!!!

This is why you may see some freight bills with a 20% FSC number on it. Unless you have a calculator on you, you have no way of knowing this, except for the really smart guys.


So again, just learn to listen once in a while and you may learn something here. Otherwise you end up chasing away members who actually do this work for a living and try to pass this on to the guys on the street.

 

[nightowl]

OK you are right...you guys are always right and this is why you can never, ever have an intelligent conversation here anymore.

You guys talk out of both sides of your mouth and it really gets frustrating. On one side you say that NPME operates in the mid 70's. I even saw a thread on here that said there were terminals operating in the 50's and 60's.

HOW THE F**K DO YOU THINK THE O.R. IS SO GOOD ????????

Its because NPME has a quality service and the sales team can sell that service to a customer at the rate that they need.

Most customers do not have the leverage to hold a gun to your head and say lower the fuel.

Do some ?? Abso****inglutely. But most do not. What they would need to do is go to another carrier, proved them with invoices and the other carrier will take a swing at the base rate.

Once a pricing department sees that a customer is paying full fuel, they are not going to touch the fuel.

Another question for you know it alls....Do you know that NPME applies their fuel in different applications ???

They will apply it on the net for most and on the gross for others. HELLO !!!!!

This is why you may see some freight bills with a 20% FSC number on it. Unless you have a calculator on you, you have no way of knowing this, except for the really smart guys.


So again, just learn to listen once in a while and you may learn something here. Otherwise you end up chasing away members who actually do this work for a living and try to pass this on to the guys on the street.

you have to remember, you are talking to a bunch of truck drivers....

 

[Hockey Puck]

Hey Froggy -

You have correctly identified the dirty secret of the LTL pricing game...FSC's in many cases are not indicative of the actual cost of fuel.

However, due to competitive pressures and overcapacity, the all-in pricing in LTL has not kept up with escalating costs of operations. $4.80 fuel is just one of many of these escalating costs.

I do not know the market situation out east like you do, but in the midwest virtually all major customers have had long standing caps on their FSC programs. In many cases these caps are less than 10%. Negotiating increases in these caps is next to impossible, due to overcapacity and ongoing difficulties in the automotive industry.

Carriers could live with it at $3.00 fuel, but can't live with it at $4.80.

 

[imported_npmemanager]

Friend of the frog talks about an intelligent conversation and then uses explitives in his post. In response to my post, he also said "very,very,very". What....are we in second grade?

I beleive you must work in Lebanon. Get out of the office every once in a while and see where the rubber meets the road. Have you ever been to a freight terminal?

Challenge me frog man....I forgot more about freight then you will ever know.

 

[Friend of the frog]

Friend of the frog talks about an intelligent conversation and then uses explitives in his post. In response to my post, he also said "very,very,very". What....are we in second grade?

I beleive you must work in Lebanon. Get out of the office every once in a while and see where the rubber meets the road. Have you ever been to a freight terminal?

Challenge me frog man....I forgot more about freight then you will ever know.

You could not be anymore wrong. I do like how you take the subject and once you are proven wrong, you decide to take personal attacks at me.

I do not even know where to start, so I hope I cover everything.

I do not work in Lebanon, I do not even work for NPME, so your assumptions are wrong. I do not work in an office, so once again you are wrong. I am on the street every single day. So when you want to talk about where the rubber meets the street, you should look in the mirror.

So far I am counting three strikes on you here. That is without even bringing up your nonsense about fuel and pricing.

I am sure if you do a little homework here you will be able to find out what I do for a living and speak only of facts.

Now please get back to your supervisor's stand and get those trucks loaded.

 

[Friend of the frog]

Hey Froggy -

You have correctly identified the dirty secret of the LTL pricing game...FSC's in many cases are not indicative of the actual cost of fuel.

However, due to competitive pressures and overcapacity, the all-in pricing in LTL has not kept up with escalating costs of operations. $4.80 fuel is just one of many of these escalating costs.

I do not know the market situation out east like you do, but in the midwest virtually all major customers have had long standing caps on their FSC programs. In many cases these caps are less than 10%. Negotiating increases in these caps is next to impossible, due to overcapacity and ongoing difficulties in the automotive industry.

Carriers could live with it at $3.00 fuel, but can't live with it at $4.80.

In the northeast it is very competitive as well. The problem lies in the small sub regional carriers. They are struggling more and more. They know that fuel is a hot buttom issue, so they talk fuel with customers, drop the FSC 10 points, but jack the base rates up a few points.

The real issue is the ignorance of your average traffic manager. Then you add a driver who believes everything a traffic manager tells them and you have an industry of fools. To be honest your average sales rep is either too lazy or too stupid to work around the situation.

The bottom line is that when you break down freight costs, your quality carriers are still making a dime. And if you can make ten cents on a dollar in the industry you are sitting pretty.

Now if you want to talk about the real problem in our industry lets talk about how soft the economy is and how we do not make a damn thing in this country anymore.

 

[diesel4blood]

I Just Love It When People On The Outside Lookin In Know Everything And Throw Out #'s Like They Know What Their Talking About.and Then They Have The Nerve To Expect Everyone To Listen To Their Line Of B.s..hmmmm Reminds Me That Uncle At Those Family Reunions That Always Say "hey Shoulda Called Me I Could Of Got A Beter Deal"...lol Lol ...fact Is These Days Most Of The Pricings Have Negotiated Fuel Schgs...especially The Bigger Accts...npmemanager Is Correct..the Man Know Wha He's Talkn About

 

[Friend of the frog]

I Just Love It When People On The Outside Lookin In Know Everything And Throw Out #'s Like They Know What Their Talking About.and Then They Have The Nerve To Expect Everyone To Listen To Their Line Of B.s..hmmmm Reminds Me That Uncle At Those Family Reunions That Always Say "hey Shoulda Called Me I Could Of Got A Beter Deal"...lol Lol ...fact Is These Days Most Of The Pricings Have Negotiated Fuel Schgs...especially The Bigger Accts...npmemanager Is Correct..the Man Know Wha He's Talkn About

Yeah right - Another country is heard from. You guys kill me.

Lets see what the truck drivers and dock supervisors know. Lets see the last time one of you guys saw a discount sheet. When was the last time anyone here actually negotiated rates with a customer. You guys really kill me.

I know that I do not know how to drive a truck and would never try and explain the ins and outs of driving a truck, since I cannot do it.

Yet I have dummy after dummy come up here and tell me how rates and fuel and pricing work.

Then you wonder why people say that truck drivers are stupid. I have a lot of respect the truck drivers, yet most of you guys do not have the same respect for others who work in our industry.

 

[Hockey Puck]

Frog -

In the Midwest, the issue is situation is much worse.

Folks on the street are hoping at best to maintain their current pricing.

Raising base rates.......next to impossible.

Maintaining status quo.....a reasonable goal.

Fact of the mattter right now....trying to minimize your price reduction.

The Southeast is just as bad.

Why do you think a quality carrier like Alvan just went belly up?

Ask anybody at NPME..they will tell you how much they will miss Alvan compared to their new service partner HMES.

 

[Friend of the frog]

You know all I hear is how great Alvan and NPME worked together. You would think they were together for 50 years....Truth is that it was only a five year relationship or so......Didn't NPME partner with Dayton until about 2003.

Geeze, Dayton is not even a union carrier.


As far as pricing goes when you break down the yield per pallet position in the northeast whether it is NPME, NEMF or PYLE you are still averaging about $110 per pallet position.

And that number is without fuel, by the way

 

[imported_npmemanager]

I did not start with the personal attacks, you attacked everyone on this site. Insinuating that we were not intelligent.

I did not change the subject. I am ready for anything you have. You seem to be very disgruntled about something. Perhaps New Penn rejected you at one time or another.

I am not a supervisor....several "levels" above that. You refer to a supervisor like they are a second class citizen. I can tell you that for years the caliber of supervisory staff is what really set NPME apart from the competition. That is not as true today as it use to be but we are still above average. Finding people with previous LTL experience is difficult. In addition, today's generation does not want to work off hours, 10-12 hours a day, and be outside when it is below freezing.

I am certain some teamsters will disagree but the supervisors/dispatchers at any LTL terminal have a significant impact on that terminals overall success and therefore the company as well.

I concede defeat on the fact that you do not work in Lebanon.....big deal. Why don't you post on your own company's site. Maybe you don't have one?????

 

[zrt_1000]

I find it ironic the conversation and assumptions made on this thread.

Let me start by saying the failure of Jevic was due to mis-managment and nothing more. They had a niche market and decided to move away from it. They tried to enter into the national market and increase volume by cutting rates. Not a good decision when you have a totally different P&D operation then the competition.

Alvan's problem stems from a downturn in the automotive sector of which they were very dependant on. GM/Delphi takes them for a hit and then the ongoing strike with the axle mfg.

As far as fuel....it is a shell game. Just like discounts, ratebase and FAK. At the end of the day the carrier needs "x" dollars. The problem comes in with the pricing folks and the direction they are given by Sr mgmt. Whether any of you want to accept it or not, the carriers in it's purest form make a profit on fuel.

I am not sure I would agree with 75% of the shippers pay full fuel...it is somewhere between that and 50%. On the other side you also have shippers who pay 50% + on a current ratebase which is very inflated. As far as the bigger shippers, they are the ones who provide the contribution to keep the freight moving and a truck rolling and again the responsibility of the pricing folks to balance.

When it is all said and done it is the ecomics and how the pricing application are applied in an ever changing market condition. New Penn has been very good at it and could be considered a leader...notice I said could.....the bad news YRCW will ultimatly toally mess it up sooner or later.

 

[Friend of the frog]

I Just Love It When People On The Outside Lookin In Know Everything And Throw Out #'s Like They Know What Their Talking About.and Then They Have The Nerve To Expect Everyone To Listen To Their Line Of B.s..hmmmm Reminds Me That Uncle At Those Family Reunions That Always Say "hey Shoulda Called Me I Could Of Got A Beter Deal"...lol Lol ...fact Is These Days Most Of The Pricings Have Negotiated Fuel Schgs...especially The Bigger Accts...npmemanager Is Correct..the Man Know Wha He's Talkn About

If you want me to post in public forum....here ya go tough guy.

I sent you a PM to keep thinsg friendly and "private" I was trying to show you some respect. Respect obviously you do not deserve.


You are the dumbazz on the outside looking in. You are a driver, and while I have the utmost respect for drivers, they do not negotiate rates or fuel. They pick up and deliver freight.

NPMEmanager - you obviously do some sort of operations work. Once again, nothing ti do whatsoever with negotiating rates.

All of you are entitled to think whatever it is that you want to think. I was just trying to give some insight from the inside. From in the trenches so to speak.

No one wants to hear from someone with the actual job of negotiating rates, then fine I will gladly keep my information to myself.

 

[Friend of the frog]

I did not start with the personal attacks, you attacked everyone on this site. Insinuating that we were not intelligent.

I did not change the subject. I am ready for anything you have. You seem to be very disgruntled about something. Perhaps New Penn rejected you at one time or another.

I am not a supervisor....several "levels" above that. You refer to a supervisor like they are a second class citizen. I can tell you that for years the caliber of supervisory staff is what really set NPME apart from the competition. That is not as true today as it use to be but we are still above average. Finding people with previous LTL experience is difficult. In addition, today's generation does not want to work off hours, 10-12 hours a day, and be outside when it is below freezing.

I am certain some teamsters will disagree but the supervisors/dispatchers at any LTL terminal have a significant impact on that terminals overall success and therefore the company as well.

I concede defeat on the fact that you do not work in Lebanon.....big deal. Why don't you post on your own company's site. Maybe you don't have one?????

Listen here old man. I have never discredited anyone's job here. And every single person that works, and I mean works, for my company is integral in making it successful. So please do not put words in my mouth.

I respect every driver, dispatcher, supervisor, clerk, etc that have worked with me.

Now as far as NPME rejecting me, you could not be farther from the truth. I happen to be very friendly with some of your VPs and regional VPs. I have nothing but respect for NPME and feel that every successful regional carrier needs to emulate them in order to be successful.

That was actually the point of my first post. NPME sales staff from the top down is one of the most talented forces in the industry and does not have to rely on dropping rates and surcharges in order to secure business. They sell their service and are quite good at it.

So the only ones taking swipes at NPME are those who feel that they must resort to the same tactics as the JP Express's and Land Air's of the world.

Those company's do not have the service to sell and they do not have a sales force to the caliber of NPME, so thats all they can do.

So please actually read the posts, do not intepret what you think I might be saying.

 

[Irishman107]

I did not start with the personal attacks, you attacked everyone on this site. Insinuating that we were not intelligent.

I did not change the subject. I am ready for anything you have. You seem to be very disgruntled about something. Perhaps New Penn rejected you at one time or another.

I am not a supervisor....several "levels" above that. You refer to a supervisor like they are a second class citizen. I can tell you that for years the caliber of supervisory staff is what really set NPME apart from the competition. That is not as true today as it use to be but we are still above average. Finding people with previous LTL experience is difficult. In addition, today's generation does not want to work off hours, 10-12 hours a day, and be outside when it is below freezing.

I am certain some teamsters will disagree but the supervisors/dispatchers at any LTL terminal have a significant impact on that terminals overall success and therefore the company as well.

I concede defeat on the fact that you do not work in Lebanon.....big deal. Why don't you post on your own company's site. Maybe you don't have one?????

He can't. The company he works for if you can believe this, banned all employees from posting on this site about 2 years ago. How in this country a company can do that is beyond me. Heres a clue NPMEManager you once worked for this companys president. If this was jeopardy the music would be running now.....