Another Oak H Blunder

Discussion in 'Oak Harbor' started by foster1662, Mar 25, 2009.

  1. JC55X

    JC55X New Member

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    I agree, I'm sure all of your friends will tell me how fair you are.

    Once again, you have not established any facts, and again you refuse to back up your claims with any fact, and once again you tell me that your not going provide any insight. "I won't go through the trouble..." "I won't waste my time..." And you want to call me out for credibility? You wont waste your time because you are clearly someone who talks but has nothing to say. Every post I have seen from you is spouting Something with no concrete information. You are a good story teller, but when you are called out for facts or clarification you refuse to respond. Sorry pal, I'm not one of your sheep and can see right through your BS.

    And as far as my demeanor... I'm never aggressive, I'm passionate. I was not crying about being an injured party, I was pointing out your hypocracy... and being a little sarcastic while doing it. Don't act like you know me based on a few posts. You have no clue who i am, or what i am about. i have sat at the table, twice, successfully. I have been through pickets at my facility (by other locations forcing my team to not earn money for their benefit), caring about my people as i watch their security, lives and most importantly families fall apart as they are lied to and misinformed by another voice trying to save his own status in the ranks. I have seen it take many YEARS to recover from the economic destruction the worker goes through during a strike and yeah, I get passionate about people being misinformed and blindly following people who really don't care about you personally. They care about the brand name TEAMSTERS.

    If you truly cared about your co-worker or brother, Maybe you could set aside your selfishness and not judge those that decide for themselves what is in the best interest of they and their families. If they cross the line, for ANY reason, you and the brotherhood want to write them off, regardless of the reason. You want them to suffer so you get what you want, or they get what you think they should have. you're not letting the individual decide. That's not brotherhood...

    But anyway, I don't expect you will agree, or "waste your time" and i don't care. I, like you, enjoy giving my insight, and using my voice to provide insight to people that may not be as informed as they need. I don't claim everything i say is gospel (like you) most of what i say is opinion, with experience to back up my point of view.
     
  2. Vwaggs

    Vwaggs Active Member

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    So now you are going to switch to the aggressive attack mode. Try to paint yourself as simply a passionate innocent and try to keep portraying me as a domineering zealot. Your going to try and associate me with any and all evils associated with the Teamster union and claim I have thousands of "Yes Men" that will back me up in anything I claim. If you have experience in anything, I'd say by profession you are a member of management w/union busting experience. I base this on how quickly you came onto TB, tried to misrepresent reality and how experienced you seem in creating the appearance of blame on other parties. That is after all only my opinion. What I do know is you have less than 20 posts, a majority of them hostile. As I said, when you get some credibility, come back and talk to me, I'm not going to play your game here. If you actually would like to continue your charade, take it to PM, you have reached the point where all you are doing is infringing on the rights of others to enjoy TB.

    I know, I know, Now you are going to come back with more garbage about how I'm just saying that because I don't want to publicly debate you etc...
    We go through these games w/no credibility newbies all the time. BTW can I make a suggestion? If you actually want to appear to have credibility, don't always post from the office on paid company time. If you throw a few in at night, on your own time, it'll do more for creating the appearance that you are just a "Regular" guy and not on salary to be here causing uproar.
     
  3. JC55X

    JC55X New Member

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    LOL, i knew you would assume that becasue I use the word team to describe my co-workers i am in management. no way i could be a union member and have my POV right? I work the night shift. i am on my own time when i post. I'm not management,

    My team respects me, because i respect them as individuals and work to attain the best outcome for each and everyone of them as individuals. i don't pretend to have the right to tell them what they have to do, knowing full well it will destroy them. And i would never write any of them off when they make a decision that is best for their family, even if i disagree with it.

    That is where you, i and the majority of this board disagree. I don't call them line crossers, i call them providers. Sometimes you have to work for today, to protect tomorrow and adapt to the changing environment. I would never advocate job abandonment to obtain pay or benefits. Some, feel that is justified, i don't. i could never go home to my wife and tell her i won't be collecting a paycheck for 157 days becasue i don't want to contribute to my medical, or lose sick days, or because the company needs to save money and is asking for me to give concessions to protect my job down the road. If the job is no longer right for me, i would leave to find the right job. I wouldn't strong arm my employer and risk my career or financial security to make my point.

    I also understand that companies will never give in to a strike. I understand you don't want to debate me, but show me one clear case of a strike doing anything to force a company to say "I give up, you get what you want" Clear case, not Union Rhetoric saying they won, while the company says they won. EVERY strike I have seen, or been party to ended up with the same proposals... or less!

    For those worried about losing 6 sick days, you lost 157 days. For those that don't want to contribute to helath care. Calculate how many years you will work off the 157 days on the line that you collected no pay. If you worked elsewhere to fund your income while on strike, you're a hypocrate, becasue you are not really in the fight. That goes back to my "If you don't like it, find a better job" statement. (I use 157 days since i don't know the full time, someone else posted 157)

    OK, i'm done. I won't "hijack" the board anymore to offer a different point of view that yours. I'll make sure my view stays hidden in PM's. But not to you, because even though you have more posts than me (LOL at you counting my posts... like that matters in the grand design... you just found this forum before I did) I don't have any desire for you to tell me what you think in private. I think people are interested in the debate. Hiding the debate only serves YOU.
     
  4. Vwaggs

    Vwaggs Active Member

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    Ahhhhh, we have finally found common ground.

    Even though you feel one way about unions and I feel another way, we both can agree there are some bad points to them, just as there are bad points to being non union. We have a Union/Non union debate Forum to discuss those very things. If you check it out, you'll notice 2 things;

    1. It is unlike the other Forums, because its where the gloves come off and the battles start. The reason for its existence is to keep the general battles from raging in company specific Forums. It is essentially an opinion hot bed. You'd probably enjoy debating there.

    2. Very, Very rarely do I post there. Contrary to your initial assessment, I'm not a die hard, pro union zealot. I see the good and embrace it. I see the bad and cringe about it. Were I working for a non union company, I would simply be on the other side of the fence, having the same issues. Makes me pretty ineffectual when I can see the other guys point.

    I tend to only take interest in the management/worker issues. I have lots of experience in both capacities. I am definitely pro worker - anti management in my stance. I was even that way when in management. I think I actually caused a company to eliminate their bonus program years ago. A company I worked for had salespeople that made minimum wage, plus could get an incentive commission. I actually held informal sales classes, to train all my salespeople how to effectively sell product that could genuinely benefit the end user. They were more than doubling their paychecks regularly. Good for the company, good for them, good for the end user and good for me. Someone must have been unhappy w/paying out all that additional money because they redesigned the program to take away all the extra monetary incentive, Go Figure.

    :beerchug::highfive:



     
  5. majortrucker

    majortrucker Member

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    Oh quit whinning and get over it. How they spend their money is none of your business as long as you get your pay check.
     
  6. truckchick1

    truckchick1 Active Member

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    While they continue to take more out of our pay check to make them richer? shitshitshitshit
     
  7. foster1662

    foster1662 Member

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    Majortrucker
    Sorry I posted this here also, but would you please explain how this was possible?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by majortrucker
    Ed and Dave bought their dad out for the business. It was not just handed to them---they paid a fair price for becoming the owners of this company. And their dad backs his sons 100 % he is always aware of what is happening and he supports them totally.

    Majortrucker, you were asked a direct question as to how Ed and Dave could afford to purchase this company. You have made many other posts since you posted this, why can you not answer the question? you made a statement now please provide something to back up what you said, if you can:loser:
     
  8. truckchick1

    truckchick1 Active Member

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    Ed & Dave were able to buy out dad from the backs of teamsters making them enough money to do so.
     
  9. mr.haha

    mr.haha New Member

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    Be patient brothers and sister teamsters !!!!!!!

    I was on strike for 5 months with all of you guys. We will WIN !!!!! Just be patient and keep milkin the money and hours if you were one of the ones that went back to work. We will win in the end. The simple fact that oak harbor was forced to take us back and fire all the ***** that they worked sooooo hard to replace us with, goes to show that they have zero control over their own company. The government laws control oak harbor. They may think that they are above the law, but they will, and mean will be proven wrong. This may take another year to get a good contract, but we will get one in the end !!!!!! We are going to go down in the union books as hero's that fought for what we believed in !!!!!
     
  10. majortrucker

    majortrucker Member

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    I resonded in a different post but answered your questiopn check there for your answer or if you doubt what I said just ask henry yorself and he will tell you it is no secret. I did not reply before because I did not see your post.
     
  11. majortrucker

    majortrucker Member

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    Hey man you are actually funny..where did yo get your materical. Can I book you for a comdey appearance????
     
  12. yellowchik

    yellowchik Member

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    what does yrc have to do with oakh and what is going on there . not the same situation at all. and for all you non union folk hating teamsters are you just jealous???
     
  13. foster1662

    foster1662 Member

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    You are reading posts from either management or & drivers or people that crossed our line, either way they have little knowledge of what they are talking about. You can tell by the post the real Oak Harbor
    Teamsters and yellowchick your comments are always welcome.
     
  14. mr.haha

    mr.haha New Member

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    I just got an email from the Teamsters !!!!!!!

    I just got a form from the teamsters to file for back pay from Oak harbor through the n.l.r.b. !!!!! Yew hoooooo !!!!!!!! If we get the back pay which I estimate for me would be about 25,000 to 30,000 dollars per person !!!!!!! I think that if we got back pay Oak harbor would be scared to death to provoke another strike !!!!!!!!!!! Just imagine Oak harbor having to pay double the people, you know the ***** and the strikers, security all at the same time ..... I wonder if good ol' Ed and Dave still think that God is on their side ????? What a bargaining chip. Maybe they will settle a contract in lieu of back pay ????
     
  15. Shifterknob

    Shifterknob The Last Wordslinger

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    I've known union members, tough-talking union members no less, who advocated for taking a tough stance and yes... even going on strike, who no sooner than the pickets went up, were crossing the line.

    It had nothing to do with providing for their families. At Oak Harbor, many of the picket line crossers went out and actually had other jobs at other union LTL companies and were working!

    So... why did they cross, if they had jobs and didn't need to provide for their families?

    Greed... plain and simple. Many of these guys were senior guys at OHFL who simply couldn't bear the thought of going to the bottom of another board, or losing their five weeks of vacation.

    It was easier for them to stick a knife in the back of their fellow employees, many of whom had to sit there and listen to these fine, upstanding senior individuals whine and complain about OHFL management for years before the strike!

    Greed... and self-centeredness. If that is the ideal they and you are so proudly espousing... you can have it.

    I'll settle for sacrifice and loyalty and brotherhood and staying true to one's principle's no matter how hard or painful it happens to be.

    Then you aren't a leader, plainly put.

    A leader, union or otherwise, sometimes has to look at the bigger picture and make decisions for the majority. Did General Eisenhower hesitate on the eve of D-Day, knowing how many casualties the Allies would take on the beaches? He did not.

    Eisenhower was a leader who understood a little something about sacrifice for the greater good. He might have halted the invasion of Normandy to prevent those Allied losses, but would likely have lost the war in the long run, creating an even greater human catastrophe. No one who fought in those battles and lost friends and family felt that their sacrifice was in vain.

    Very few who stand on union picket lines feel that their sacrifice is in vain, either. A battle for a higher principle is a battle for a higher principle, whether the tyrant is a Fascist dictator or a corporate megalomaniac (cough cough David VP cough cough).

    If you never stand up for anything, you will eventually run out of places to run to. History teaches us this lesson quite clearly.

    Case in point: Woodrow Wilson tried to keep us out of WWI in a futile attempt to stay neutral in what he viewed as a mainly European conflict, without taking the time or effort to understand the nature of Kaiser Wilhelm's dream of empire and glory. Wilson's indifference to the rising toll of death and destruction merely extended the length of the war and guaranteed the fact that the U.S. would inevitably be drawn into the conflict.

    You say you would never walk a picket line over medical or sick pay. If things got bad enough, you would simply leave. But if everyone felt that way, in no time, no company would offer any of those options. You could run and run and run, from one company to the next, and you would be on a treadmill to the bottom.

    Why?

    Because you refuse to draw a line in the sand. You refuse to say, "I am worth X amount, and I am willing to fight for it, if need be."

    Instead, you reveal that you have a cowardly soul and value nothing more than the fact that your own self-interest takes precedence over larger principles like sacrifice and brotherhood. Such were values that Jesus himself taught and revered, and Mohammad, too.

    I would say union workers were in good company, there...

    You are completely missing the point here: collective bargaining is not about one side dictating to the other in empirical fashion and winning a complete victory. Collective bargain is, at it's heart, about compromise and give and take. I have never seen a successful contract bargained where both sides didn't each gain some and lose some.

    Every union leader knows a strike is the ultimate roll of the dice, because what you risk is often more than you might gain. But in many cases, a strike is the last and remaining resort when all other options have failed. Very few unions in the modern age feel like they have clear and overwhelming leverage on the employer they are battling, and so every strike is a carefully calculated gambit to force the employer to move their pieces on the proverbial board.

    Have some strikes been called because of foolish greed? Sure. Have some strikes been forced because of employer misconduct, i.e. Oak Harbor Freight Lines? Of course. Some strikes are not about economics, but about deeper principles based in the law we all live under. If an employer insists on breaking the law, a union often has to initiate a strike to bring the government's attention to bear on the problem.

    It's not about a simple numerical tally. If the union had simply rolled over and gave in on the medical or the sick pay, what would have happened in the next contract? They had already made it clear the pension was next. Their game was to drive a wedge between the union and the employees, with the ultimate goal beng of breaking the union.

    It wasn't really about dollars and cents... never was for Dave and Eddy-boy. It was about control. It was about stubborness and greed and a spoiled little boy's reaction "No one is going to tell me what to do in my own company!"

    They went so far as to fly back East and meet with other companies that had broken the union at their respective workplaces!

    Their clear intent was never to bargain in good faith, per the law, but instead to roadblock, fillibuster, and delay. I've been there, seen it with my own eyes, and know of what I speak. And the NLRB knows this too, and woe be to Dave and Eddy-boy when the judgments start rolling down upon their heads!

    Just a piece of advice, my friend: I've been on this board a long time as a poster and as a former moderator. The respect you give is the respect you will receive.

    Posting on this board with a big chip on your shoulder will earn you few friends, and no respect. Debate is encouraged, so long as it is constructive and central to the topic at hand and the forum it is contained in. Pick your fights better, and don't get a chip on your shoulder every time someone disagrees with you, whether they are a moderator or not.

    In the end, these are all just opinions and thoughts. Nothing to get worked up over, especially if you have no dog in this fight as you claim...
     
  16. Fthemwithasmile

    Fthemwithasmile Member

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    I don't think you'll be getting back pay for striking. It is probably for any work around claim since the strike was over.
     
  17. truckchick1

    truckchick1 Active Member

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JC55X
    "...That is where you, i and the majority of this board disagree. I don't call them line crossers, i call them providers. Sometimes you have to work for today, to protect tomorrow and adapt to the changing environment. I would never advocate job abandonment to obtain pay or benefits. Some, feel that is justified, i don't. i could never go home to my wife and tell her i won't be collecting a paycheck for 157 days becasue i don't want to contribute to my medical, or lose sick days, or because the company needs to save money and is asking for me to give concessions to protect my job down the road. If the job is no longer right for me, i would leave to find the right job. I wouldn't strong arm my employer and risk my career or financial security to make my point..."

    You don't call them line crossers. That is what they are. If these creeps didn't undercut their fellow employees this strike would have not lasted so long. We have seen the replacements as jokes on youtube. If you are looking for us to forgive the jerks who turned on us you are wrong. They will not be forgiven.
     
  18. Wheel Seal

    Wheel Seal Member

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    give them 0 they chose there to walk with " scars "
     
  19. JC55X

    JC55X New Member

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    Look Shifterknob, you want to call me out for a chip? You my friend, no matter how well you type your inane banter, are at best, dilusional.

    Your first dilusion, is to dare compare yourself or your meager little strike, to the honorable soldiers that have died in World Wars, or to compare Union leadership to the honorable miltary leaders that had to make the toughest decisions possible and send soldiers to die.

    Unions profit off of putting it's members at risk, and call it fighting for you. Military leaders do what they do for a much more noble cause, and for you to compare them is sickening. Your battle for the brotherhood, is nothing compared to the battles fought for the country.

    Second, I don't care how long you have been on this board, or what your "Status" has been. I have lived through strikes and I have been on both sides and came out of the experiences with a true understanding of the behind the scenes playbook. I came here to share MY PERSONAL views and don't need you to tell me what I can and can't say. Kick me off the board, delete my posts, I don't care, my life will go on. But don't silence the message because you don't agree with it. If you really care about your union brothers, let them see both sides and make their own decisions. Or is your leadership style tell them what they should think? Facist? Communist? Dictatorship?

    As i have read, your ULP's were bogus and denied. You spent 157 days on the street and all you can tell me is that it was for a higher purpose? PLEASE tell me what you gained?

    Finally, you call me a coward? I disagree. But I don't have to justify myself to you. I don't have to tell you about the times I fired my weapon, in two seperate engagements, in defense of your ability to call me a coward.

    You promote a democracy where the masses are told what to do for their leadership.

    I promote a democracy based on freedom, where soldiers are soldiers, and truck drivers are truck drivers. One carries out orders, the other delivers orders. One risks his or her life, the other punches a clock in some american city safe because of the soldier, and in your case, walks away when the job benefits don't please him, trying to hurt his company financially to get what he wants.

    For you to think they are the same, is pitiful. And before you tell me how important truck drivers are, I know, i am one and my career relies on them. But I have also been a soldier, and the 2 are nothing alike.

    You have been measured Shifterknob, and you have failed.

    Unfortunately, your (and the union's) failure has hurt the working man that you claim you represent. I hope the masses really see the truth about this.

    You say they want to bust the Union, why wouldn't they when they saw a good portion of their workforce walk away for bogus claims by a 3rd party of ULP's? 157 days! Charges denied! How about you file for back pay from the Union for leading you to strike for reasons that were false?

    But you will probably tell me I'm wrong again, and you all stood for a principle. And i'm a coward for not agreeing. The bravest thing anyone could have done was to go against the Union in this case. Can't you see that? The brave thing was to stand alone and say, I don't agree with the Union, I am staying with my employer in opposition to my co-workers. They knew one day you would be back. They knew they would be ridiculed. They knew the Union would blacklist them. But they had the courage to cross YOUR line and go to the job.

    Maybe you were the scared one, afraid to go against the Union? I Wonder...
     
  20. airhorn4you

    airhorn4you Member

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    unions dont profit from strikes it drains money from the strike fund that we contribute to it is in the best interest of the union to keep us working a strike is the last resort .
    as for the comment on the union hurting the woprking man i would have to disagree this company has been trying to push us further and further backwards that is the what is hurting the working man we have families to support our benefits are included in the pay package for the work we do .
    if the vanderfools asked for a vote on these choices it would have been voted down but they want to dictate policies that would hurt the employees and thier families the union backs us up not the other way around they work for us just like the company lawyers work for them there was merit found on some of the ulps hence we werent permanently replaced if you like working for a company like this that is fine we choose to make it a better place to work after all arent we just trying to provide a good life for our families is that too much to ask for STATUS QUO i think is what the company should have done
     

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