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Holland | August 2008 U.E. Change Of Operations

I think it was wrong to make UE a city bid to start with. It should have been a road Job that is who is suffering from it and it is road work its not local cartage its being ran outside of the city limits so how can it be city work. This whole thing has been messed up from the f'n start.
 
dokman said:
I started this thread with the intent to let everyone know what was going on with the COO, I'am sorry it has caused so much hate and discontent between road and city. I think everyone should step back take a deep breath and realize one way or another things will work out we have to stay together as a group not divided like a play ground full of school kids. We all need to work together to get things changed we can start by keeping good records of what happens and does not happen (per contract) and setting down with the locals to get things hammered out and follow the contract. After all TY kept calling us and telling us VOTE YES THIS IS A GOOD CONTRACT! We can hold there feet (IBT) to the fire since this is the contract that they negoited for us,the dues paying members.
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I don't think we can get anything changed now. The contract is over. The UE language in the contract says the company can do whatever they want. The only change we can make now is to vote out everyone at the IBT and the Local level.
 
Boilerpeddle said:
Ok so the city guys only get their seniority violated the first time.
Maybe that is the best way to implement this disatser. But all the roadndrivers are saying that this new way is fair and I am just trying to point out that there are problems with it also.
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I don't understand what that problem is. The UE work comes from Road work. If LO got zip codes from IN, should you follow your work to LO?
 
Jarhead13 said:
I don't understand what that problem is. The UE work comes from Road work. If LO got zip codes from IN, should you follow your work to LO?
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Yes but they should DOVETAIL like normal. DOVETAIL means they fall in where their seniority takes them and not bid ahead senior men .
OK say Lo did get some of our zips. X number of men should be allowed to go to Lo with their company seniority and fall in line with the men already there. If I had 5 years I would bid behind a guy with 6 years seniority. The way this proposal works is that I would be able to bid peddle runs to those zips that IN lost to LO ahead of everyone there at LO no matter if they have 30 years more seniority than me. I think you can see that that might cause some grumbling.
Not because they don't care about me, but because their seniority was violated.
 
I dont think a COO trumps our contract.

I dont believe a COO can (or at least should) trump our contract. My contract states that "All CDL-qualified drivers with the required endorsements" can bid on the UE (road and city) and it goes by company seniority. My contract also gives full retreat rights for those (road and city) who are bumped at a later bid. In fact, my contract specifically states that we are not party to the National Master Freight Agreement, and that that the provisions I listed above (among others) shall prevail. I do see that the road drivers are getting shafted currently, BUT keep in mind the type of work the UE does, is dictated by the company, and may be mostly city in the future. Thus, I don't think it's fair to give road drivers first pick on the UE jobs (over city guys, regardless of seniority) for ever and ever, based on what has happened in 2 months.
 
7ft8279 said:
I think it was wrong to make UE a city bid to start with. It should have been a road Job that is who is suffering from it and it is road work its not local cartage its being ran outside of the city limits so how can it be city work. This whole thing has been messed up from the f'n start.
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I`ll agree with the messed up part,but there are UE`s doing city work.With that said your statement is not true.The definition of "utility freight"that we were given is "ANY FREIGHT THAT MOVES FROM A VELOCITY CENTER TO A VELOCITY CENTER". So I don`t think there can be an "outside the city limits".
 
Hey guys listen up, there have been some great points and counterpoints made in the last several posts but let's keep cool toward each other. Keep up the great debating but don't get caught up in the moment and make a bad choice in judgment. Thanks and please continue. :1036316054:
 
Everyone has made great points on this thread. In most cases protecting whatever classification they work out of, for obvious reasons. However, if you remember back, before we voted on this contract, many of us tried to warn everyone about these exact grey areas that you are debating today. We tried for weeks, to play out some of these contract interpretations, and how we would be affected if these GREY areas were interpreted the wrong way. I personally am a city driver, but back then I argued for the linehaul and the city, simply trying to play out how we could both get the raw end of the deal, depending on how they interpreted the language. Before we signed this contract, we had an opportunity to clean up the grey areas. Sixty-seven percent of us rolled the dice that the interpretations would go in their favor. I still think that the yes voters made a mistake. Based on this whole thread, it would be hard to argue that it wasn't a mistake. Everyone had their own reasons why they voted in either direction, but we were all warned of these grey areas that we are debating today. Hopefully, we can learn from this mess. Good luck to everyone.
 
If your terminal gets a UE then that allows road drivers to transfer to the city but they should dovetail in just like every other change we have ever had, plus the contract that was voted in said both boards are able to bid on the UE position. I'm sure that are BA'S will not let this go through, even if the road driver get the first shot then get bumped in three months that is a start of the company doing away with seniority. Do we want senority or do we want the company to turn us into sucks, and who ever sucks best gets what they want, sounds like what nonunion trucking is about. Please lets all stick together road and city and make it heard that we want this bid off of the master senority list of both boards and make this UE position go in senority order so we can have are rights just like we always have enjoyed.. IF WE LOSE OUR SENORITY WHAT ELSE WOULD HAVE...
 
hooddock said:
I`ll agree with the messed up part,but there are UE`s doing city work.With that said your statement is not true.The definition of "utility freight"that we were given is "ANY FREIGHT THAT MOVES FROM A VELOCITY CENTER TO A VELOCITY CENTER". So I don`t think there can be an "outside the city limits".
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Im not saying am right or your wrong thats just the way I see it. Before city had a area that they worked in now they are going to other area's thats what road has always done in the past the cross docking is new but I was just stateing how I see it. Good luck to all
 
buckeye bandit said:
If your terminal gets a UE then that allows road drivers to transfer to the city but they should dovetail in just like every other change we have ever had, plus the contract that was voted in said both boards are able to bid on the UE position. I'm sure that are BA'S will not let this go through, even if the road driver get the first shot then get bumped in three months that is a start of the company doing away with seniority. Do we want senority or do we want the company to turn us into sucks, and who ever sucks best gets what they want, sounds like what nonunion trucking is about. Please lets all stick together road and city and make it heard that we want this bid off of the master senority list of both boards and make this UE position go in senority order so we can have are rights just like we always have enjoyed.. IF WE LOSE OUR SENORITY WHAT ELSE WOULD HAVE...
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I will say it again. If your terminal loses zip codes to another terminal, should you follow your work? This is the same thing. The Road Drivers should and must follow their work. They are taking road work and moving it to the city. The Road Drivers should follow their work. No one in the city is being violated. That's how we got the horrible contract in the first place, to many people looking out for #1.
 
If the road follows the work once they change boards they would fall in senority order just like a dovetail. The way the proposal reads is the road bids first then the city that would be super senority if a junior road man held a bid over a senior city man. If that don't explain it good enough, you must be a road man trying to have your cake and eat it too!!!!!!!!!!!
 
buckeye bandit said:
If the road follows the work once they change boards they would fall in senority order just like a dovetail. The way the proposal reads is the road bids first then the city that would be super senority if a junior road man held a bid over a senior city man. If that don't explain it good enough, you must be a road man trying to have your cake and eat it too!!!!!!!!!!!
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Super seniority til January then the road man gets bumped to his "dovetail" seniority! As far as "cake and eat it too", what are you doing, taking road work and not caring about the road drivers youre putting out of work? Thats all I have to say about that. My blood pressure cant handle anymore. I will hold no grudges against any of my co-workers, Road or City, no matter how this turns out! Good luck to all of us!:1036316054:
 
What I don't like is being called selfish when I am only trying to point out that my rights are being violated. this goes against the long standing practice of following the work.
And now call me a meester for wanting thenunion to protect everyones seniority equally.
I too don't have any bad feeling toward anyone road or otherwise. By all means follow the work. I amn not saying the road drivers should refuse to take advantage of this. but don't expect me to act like it's a privelege.
 
If a road driver is presently on a IN-CH turn and that is replaced with a UE driver then for him to then become that UE driver and bring it under the local cartage umbrellla of work then he is only following his work. After that work is under local cartage (Jan 09) then senority prevails.Where does the line-haul driver violate the local mans senority ??
 
Leadership

I think we are all losing focus here. The real reason we are all upset is because of the promises of the IBT and our Locals have been broken. I understand both sides have arguments about the UE position. I believe what we all need to remember is that our Leadership has screwed us and the company and the Union are reaping the benefits. I know the IBT orchestrated the whole UE program. All of the Locals were ordered to follow suit and they complied. The company has proposed that the Road Drivers have first preference at the UE job in the new COO because they knew this would drive a wedge further between the Teamsters and their Leadership. The Company also likes when we are all distracted. They love when we fight with each other. They are laughing all-the-way to the bank. I am proud of being a Teamster, I am not proud of our Leadership. What we need right now is to take a step back and look at the entire situation. Brotherhood means taking care of each other. What can we do to take care of our Brothers that have been hurt by this contract? That is the question. If we want to fix this we must take matters into our own hands. The Road Drivers must follow D.O.T rules to the letter and only Drive what is safe and appropriate. The city men must do the same. Follow their rules. This will help short term. In the future we can vote out the lying Leadership at every Level. We must go in a positive direction. WE MUST HAVE NEW LEADERSHIP! Bad Representation is worse than NO Representation. If we are going to save this thing of ours, we must band together and take care of each other. We suffer short term, but we will succeed in the future. It is never too late. I am not perfect, but if we all try a little harder and be a more conscience of Brotherhood, we can make a difference!
 
I don't think you are thinking this out. When the change goes through and they rebid sept. 29th that UE will be city work, but you are saying it turns into city work jan 09. I just want what is fair senority wise for all of us, and for those of you that need to know i am a road driver.
 
If you guys read the coo it states on one page that this change will not go against NMFA. Next page it says road bids before city. That is not the contract we voted for or against, but it is the one that we are stuck with so lets stick the company to the rules that they put in front of us first, if we let them change this now what will they go for next (NO SENORITY). Remember they are the ones that are asking us to do this and they know exactly what is going on between road and city guys right now. So read the contract and follow what we have in writing and not what the company wants to change.
 
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