But we as Americans are supposed to step aside and let these people take over the US.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by othertrucker2001, May 18, 2014.

  1. EX396

    EX396 Well-Known Member

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    just try to refuse service to somebody because of their disability or the color of their skin. Sign or no sign that isn't going to fly.

    You obviously are of the opinion that people choose to be gay. Many would disagree.
     
  2. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    EX, I like you, I like your logic and your non-emotional reasoning, which is what I try to do myself. On this subject, I believe you can't understand that a Christian Does see this affecting one's Eternity, because you don't believe there is an Eternity. This isn't discrimination like race or sex, because those are physical traits that belie that we are all identical inside.

    This appears to be a case where a gay couple sought out a place of other beliefs to force a court case. The result will be, in the end- Christians shying away from opening businesses, because there will always be Something a person with an agenda pushes on a technicality, just to drive Christianity away. First, it was the prayers in the 1960s. Now, it's homosexuality, or war on women, or education, or whatever the flavor of the era is. I personally see that we are all born with no agendas, no traits except physical- and all we become are products of our environments. Today's media/ social sites drive homosexuality. Tomorrow's will drive who knows what? Call me a kook, but I see it as the Ultimate Battle for Jerusalem- Satan pushing to have what God has- Me! There will always be something (like biometric I D on licenses, for example) that causes a Christian to pause, reflect- 'does this affect my Eternity?'. It's never ending.

    I wonder if people missed the Bergdahl Islamic prayer cleansing the White House so Allah could be present the other day? It was legal, because it was the guy's personal opinion, not an Officially Government Santioned prayer. But I wonder what the outcry would have been if a Christian had done so, or if it had been said in English. Everyone on earth has an agenda of some kind. Never boring.....
     
  3. EX396

    EX396 Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate it Jimmy G, I really do. We seem to see eye to eye on many of the topics here.

    I do understand that a Christian does see this affecting one's Eternity. Just because I don't believe it to be so, doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to believe it so. I get that.

    Where I have difficulty squaring this away is how does the Christian's faith get to trump the gays' beliefs? Or, just as importantly, how does the gays' beliefs get to trump the Christians' faith? Neither one should have the ability to legally trump the other.

    People, in this Country are free to believe whatever they wish up to a point. An extreme example would be that I don't get to practice a religion that demands that I sacrifice a puppy every morning on the steps of a kindergarten class. Not that that is similar. Just illustrating that there needs to exist a fuzzy line in the sand that says "you can practice whatever religion you wish as long as ___________"

    Now, how do we define that criteria? As long as it doesn't harm anybody else? That's vague and the gays, in this case, would cry that they were "harmed". As long as it doesn't break any laws? In this case they were being discriminated against based on sexual orientation....is that illegal in every state? Wouldn't forcing the baker to sell them a wedding cake "harm" the baker? The baker would argue that he is being harmed much more so than some dudes getting their feelings hurt over not being accepted or being discriminated against.

    Carry on.
     
  4. a9faninnc

    a9faninnc Super Moderator Staff Member

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    This country was founded on Christian principles.Its on our money,anthem,etc.To me this trumps the homosexual,s and atheist.Youre not stoned or imprisoned for being a homosexual or atheist,that is your religious freedom.To please a few,you are gonna have others go against their morals or religious beliefs,so not to offend the few???The minority in this country seems to have more rights than the majority and im not talking race.If you have no faith in a deity,that's your right.I f you want to have relations with the same sex,that's your right.Just dont force those who are against it to condone or accept it.Have your little marches and ads to crucify these businesses and let the public make their choice whether they support the business refusal.Im not a very religious person and dont feel threatened by either Christianity or atheists.I dont feel threatened by homos either but them and atheist seem to whine all the time..

    So a Christian baker dont want to make a couple of homos a wedding cake???Never saw that coming,huh???Big frickin deal,go find someone that will and quit being whiny b,s.
     
  5. trucker jones

    trucker jones Member

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    honestly I don't want to tell you how to live. But also I don't want you redefining what marriage and family is..
    I don't want my 3 grade child being taught that gay is normal .I defiantly don't want to discriminate against your rights, you should get health care and some type of marriage not using the word marriage is fine. why do you guys insist on us excepting your lifestyle, attacking us with it? just do what you do ,and leave us alone, its true their are mean spirited Christians and I don't endorse them , actually the government shouldn't even be involved in marriage I really think if ya just left non gay people alone and not try to force us to agree with you and just live your lives their wouldn't be all this noise..
     
  6. autocar65

    autocar65 Local 767

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    And are filled with the ambitious, greedy and self serving....Just like the political class.
     
  7. Starkravinloon

    Starkravinloon Hero's Falling At Home

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    I corrected it for ya CCX, or am I being two technical...UDA
     
  8. CCXdriver

    CCXdriver Well-Known Member

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    Thanks perfesser grammar! What would we do without you!!
     
  9. EX396

    EX396 Well-Known Member

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    The public should decide whether or not to support the business after they refuse to serve gays, atheists, disabled, blacks, senior citizens, bigots, or truck-drivers? Whatever minority they chose to refuse service to should be their right and let the chips fall where they may. If that means we take a step backwards 40+ years so be it. /sarcasm

    Maybe I need to read the story again, but I don't recall anybody forcing the baker to bake these guys a wedding cake against his religious beliefs.
     
  10. a9faninnc

    a9faninnc Super Moderator Staff Member

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    So you wont your rights and beliefs honored but to hell with everyone else..?(Sarcasm)
     
  11. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    the judge is now forcing him to, and to send all his employees to Re Education Training. It's in the article. I called the bakery and told his daughter (really nice gal) to tell her Dad and his lawyers about Engle vs Vitale. 'the power of the state cannot be used to make a person uncomfortable in his religion, whether that person participates in the activity or not, it's establishing religion- per Justice Hugo Black, 1963...
     
  12. EX396

    EX396 Well-Known Member

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    That's not it at all. I do not believe that my rights and beliefs are more important than anybody esles', I believe that nobody else's are more important than mine. Get it?



    We are disagreeing over the semantics. He's not being forced to bake a cake. He's being sanctioned if chooses not to. Stand up for your religious beliefs, don't bake the cake and take it all the way to the Supreme Court if you can.
     
  13. Starkravinloon

    Starkravinloon Hero's Falling At Home

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    The man doesn't have to bake the cake, if chooses not too... He needs to go ahead and pay the fine(which is what it is all about) and be done with it.. Now he knows to say. "We don't have that sir and I can't get it.. Thank you for coming in"...

    Did the man ever say he wasn't doing it because they were gay? Forgive me, it's been twisted and turned so many times..
     
  14. a9faninnc

    a9faninnc Super Moderator Staff Member

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    So youre saying you have no problem with school prayer,crosses on highways,prayer at events,etc???
     
  15. Starkravinloon

    Starkravinloon Hero's Falling At Home

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  16. EX396

    EX396 Well-Known Member

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    Correct. No problem.....until some group says the other group can't do the same. Then I have a problem with the hypocrisy. Heck, from time to time I'll watch Duck Dynasty, eat Chick-fil-A and I have been to a Hobby Lobby. Even took Grandma to Catholic Mass on Christmas Eve once she could no longer drive.

    I don't mean any offense to Christians with the following analogy, until I can come up with something better this is the best I can do: There are kids that find out Santa isn't real and run around the school yard telling everybody. There are kids that go on believing in Santa until very late in their childhood. There are kids that don't believe in Santa, yet see the joy, excitement and even how it positively alters behavior of others who do believe. That last one is me. Let them believe. Their faith helps them and brings them great joy. It doesn't force me to believe, so why throw a stink?
     
  17. EX396

    EX396 Well-Known Member

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    Ha ha ha, you can't trick this Barry hater into defending his actions...I won't do it. ;)
     
  18. Starkravinloon

    Starkravinloon Hero's Falling At Home

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    Oh well, I tried.. Have a great Sunday...
     
  19. Northern Flash

    Northern Flash OBAMA'S CREATION.

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    That's a fact. We have become a country of pansies who are afraid to stand up for their own rights, yet will walk through fire to show how passionate they are toward a minority group. This political correctness thing is destroying our country from within because the majority is afraid of being accused of discriminating against the minority groups. The minority groups notice the cowardly actions of the majority, so they push their agenda even harder.
     
  20. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    Since the 700sAD, Islam says convert or die. In the 1100s- 1600s the Catholic Church and Anglican Church said convert or be imprisoned. Now in modern America the Secularists have taken power and said convert or be ruined. We're out of places for Christians to freely try to honor God....
     

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