Company can't sell California properties for what they paid

[teamster in wa]

As far as them saying that they would prefer to have a non union job. I could see them saying that because if you are at a non union job and are a supporter of the union you become a target to management to get rid. That will all change when the Employee Free Choice Act passes!!

 

[ryerke]

Well, you contradict yourself.

You say that there aren't many union shops left in California, which is true to some degree. Then you say any of the former Teamsters you know prefer it in a non-union barn.

I don't see the contradiction.
I haven't said anything for myself, only repeating what I've heard over the years. There seems to be some caveat to being a union member that may explain former Teamsters saying, 'I'm glad to be out', and 'I'll never go back.' I can't explain this myself, I can only report that I have heard this. Nor can I make anyone believe that it happened. Frankly, it makes no difference to me if anyone believes it.

 

[silvertooth]

I don't see the contradiction.
I haven't said anything for myself, only repeating what I've heard over the years. There seems to be some caveat to being a union member that may explain former Teamsters saying, 'I'm glad to be out', and 'I'll never go back.' I can't explain this myself, I can only report that I have heard this. Nor can I make anyone believe that it happened. Frankly, it makes no difference to me if anyone believes it.

Some companies may not need a union, Oak Harbor needs a union like a fish needs water. These people will walk all over you and abuse you and throw you away when they are done.

Can you imagine being retired for five years, having your budget laid out for your life, then to all of sudden have a almost $1000 cobra payment to make? That's like pulling the rug out from under you, what kind of person with morals would do that to the elderly ailing people who helped Henry Sr. build this business?

I knew this strike would be particularly devastating for Oak Harbor, because the Vanderpols underestimate their employees drastically. I have seen Oak guys on the street going that extra mile for customers, working harder, and faster, than any ltl driver for any company. That's why I have always felt, primarily because the contract was so concessionary to begin with, that they were getting a great deal on labor. I have followed the replacements around, the idea that in a mass hiring you can somehow get the same quality as years of careful hiring is just insane, even if the NLRB finds in the companies favor, they are going to go out of business eventually.

 

[ryerke]

Some companies may not need a union, Oak Harbor needs a union like a fish needs water. These people will walk all over you and abuse you and throw you away when they are done.

Maybe I'm naive but I can't see Edward and David abusing and walking all over their employees.

Can you imagine being retired for five years, having your budget laid out for your life, then to all of sudden have a almost $1000 cobra payment to make? That's like pulling the rug out from under you, what kind of person with morals would do that to the elderly ailing people who helped Henry Sr. build this business?

What I can't imagine is advocating my responsibility to make sure that myself and my family are covered to someone else. I was raised to be self reliant and not to depend on an employer to take care of me cradle to grave.

I knew this strike would be particularly devastating for Oak Harbor, because the Vanderpols underestimate their employees drastically. I have seen Oak guys on the street going that extra mile for customers, working harder, and faster, than any ltl driver for any company. That's why I have always felt, primarily because the contract was so concessionary to begin with, that they were getting a great deal on labor. I have followed the replacements around, the idea that in a mass hiring you can somehow get the same quality as years of careful hiring is just insane, even if the NLRB finds in the companies favor, they are going to go out of business eventually.

James Hoffa Sr. said that it was his goal to 'get rid of the marginal companies.' It looks to me like Jr. would like to follow in the tradition. I don't think I would like to be a party to that.

 

[silvertooth]

Maybe I'm naive but I can't see Edward and David abusing and walking all over their employees.

Why do you think they are out on strike? You seem to be the one that stands alone. They do it by proxy, by hiring inept, uneducated, low brow managers.

What I can't imagine is advocating my responsibility to make sure that myself and my family are covered to someone else. I was raised to be self reliant and not to depend on an employer to take care of me cradle to grave.

That's just a cop out, you know as well as I do, that this is wrong. I would never expect a employer to take care of me from cradle to grave and Oak Harbor is far from doing that. That's why we have external pensions and heath plans we definitly don't want the employer taking care of us!

James Hoffa Sr. said that it was his goal to 'get rid of the marginal companies.' It looks to me like Jr. would like to follow in the tradition. I don't think I would like to be a party to that.

No idea what you are talking about, but I am going to go out on a limb and guess it has no relevance.

I gotta ask what is your motivation here? Do you really honestly think the company cares for you? You seem to be a sharp guy, what is it about the union that you dislike? You must realize the importance of collective bargaining in this country, you can see where we are coming from, you know that the dissatisfaction of Oak Harbor employees is not solely union generated.

Anti union remarks on these pages come from two sources, very slow people, management. And you..

We can argue small nuances to no end. So I ask, lets talk about you and your problems. On these boards or in PM whatever you prefer.

 

[ryerke]

Under the leadership of Farrell Dobbs of the Communist League of America, the Minneapolis Teamsters then began to organize regionally. Using the prestige that their victory in Minneapolis had brought them, they worked with Teamsters in other cities on a plan to organize the over-the-road drivers, whom Tobin had written off as trash and unorganizable.

Hoffa thought that it served the union's interest, to drive marginal employers out of the industry.

Hoffa was instrumental in using the assets of the Teamsters' pension plans, particularly the Central States plan, to support Mafia projects...

I hadn't done any research until recently. Nearly all of my dislike of the union has come from this board. I came in looking for answers and found that the union seemed to be made up of people that I would not like to be associated with.
When I first started posting here, I was, unlike other California drivers posting here, entirely willing to take a stand with you up to and including leaving my position to support your cause. The more that I learned about you (collective,) the more I saw that yours was not a cause that I could support.
I can see that I have as much likelyhood of changing your mind as I would walking into the Church of the LDS and convincing them that their ideology falls short of essential Christian doctrine. I really don't care about that.
I will never convince you that collective bargaining is not necessary in a free market society and you will not convince me that it is. I have faith in my fellow man including those that I choose to work for. If you ever decide to participate in free enterprise by owning a business, particularly if you find the need to hire employees, you may begin to see my point.
Oak Harbor Freight Lines does not exist solely for the purpose of providing employment to you or me.
As for your external healthcare and pensions, employer provided or union provided makes no difference. You are still looking for someone else to take care of it for you. If you fail to understand that, you are possibly beyond redemption.

 

[silvertooth]

I hadn't done any research until recently. Nearly all of my dislike of the union has come from this board. I came in looking for answers and found that the union seemed to be made up of people that I would not like to be associated with.
When I first started posting here, I was, unlike other California drivers posting here, entirely willing to take a stand with you up to and including leaving my position to support your cause. The more that I learned about you (collective,) the more I saw that yours was not a cause that I could support.
I can see that I have as much likelyhood of changing your mind as I would walking into the Church of the LDS and convincing them that their ideology falls short of essential Christian doctrine. I really don't care about that.
I will never convince you that collective bargaining is not necessary in a free market society and you will not convince me that it is. I have faith in my fellow man including those that I choose to work for. If you ever decide to participate in free enterprise by owning a business, particularly if you find the need to hire employees, you may begin to see my point.
Oak Harbor Freight Lines does not exist solely for the purpose of providing employment to you or me.
As for your external healthcare and pensions, employer provided or union provided makes no difference. You are still looking for someone else to take care of it for you. If you fail to understand that, you are possibly beyond redemption.

Those quotes are historical, what relevance they serve today is questionable at best.

To think that you would come onto Truckingboards, in the hopes of finding real answers to such serious issues, its an opinion forum! That is troubling in and of itself. You are driver right? Its is the middle of the day, shouldn't you be out peddling freight?

California drivers cannot and are not expected to take a stand, your jobs are not protected as the employees of union terminals are you would be essentially quitting. Many California drivers have pledged their anonymous support. I am going to go ahead and chalk you in the management column, because you refuse to engage on the root issues, as management you can't really argue them effectively, because you are not the Vanderpols just another paid employee, they are the only ones in this fight that have actual attachment to your argument.

You say I am looking to an external source to take care of me, I say the members are the union. I guess I really don't understand what you mean by taking care of ones self, do you mean like a bunch of gold hidden under the mattress? Or an ability to hunt and scavenge or construct shelter? Essentially everything we do in this country relies in one way or another in the faith we have in our own system. A dollar is only worth a dollar because we believe it to be. Your mister faith in fellow man when it comes to the VP's, what about the hundreds of striking employees?

 

[ryerke]

Management...That's funny.
Beyond redemption.

 

[truckchick1]

R- Doesn't matter what you think. Ohfl is either going to settle with the union or be out of business. Then where will YOU be.

 

[imported_8ball]

R- Doesn't matter what you think. Ohfl is either going to settle with the union or be out of business. Then where will YOU be.

No it doesn't matter what rye thinks, but you leave out one part. OHFL doesn't have to settle or go out of business. They could just struggle through like many before and hang on. They have deeper pockets than you or I when all is said and done, The stike fund checks only go so far. Look if it were only about the money for the Vander Pols, They could have walked away years ago when Henry stepped down and sold when they were offered very lukrative offers. That could still happen, There are lots of carriers out there that still have money or funding that would love to pick up the assests and territory.

I have seen it with Cresent, (who was finally killed by the Workers Comp in Ca.) Silver Eagle who was under funded and didn't expand when they needed to. CF who was not able to meet there Pension demands and continually posted hugh losses until they closed. PIE, Willig and the likes, I could go on. I have been in the buisness for more than 20 years, both union and non. I am not saying the Union doesn't have its place.

I know many great union and non-union people, but I also know some that don't deserve the time of day, let alone having there job protected for such offenses that has the normal person scratching their heads thinking what the F$%# where they thinking. When they know they only have to play the game of you can't fire me because? Companys have the right to run their business and not have there hands tied by the Union. The education of people these days and the laws on the books should be enough to keep Employer and Employee in check. The union is taking your dues and making promises they can't keep. You only have to look towards the UAW. The carmakers have been in trouble long before people stopped buying cars. Its because of the package they continually get in there contracts, How long can they promise the sky until it comes crashing down. I think the writing is on the wall there.
I admire you all for standing by your convictions, just know when enough is enough.

 

[DMT]

i will agree the company has the right to run their company and a union becomes involved when the employees believe they are being taken advantage of. in some cases it is a just involvement but in others it appears the local union is after more members just for the sake of having more members.

in the case of OHFL how is it only half of the company is unionized.what is different in CA than WA.is it a terminal by terminal choice or does the union have to be invited in.

on the question of survival of OHFL can OHFL shut down a terminal for a week,month etc and reopen as a non-union.is there language in the contract that blocks this?

 

[foster1662]

Look if it were only about the money for the Vander Pols, They could have walked away years ago when Henry stepped down and sold when they were offered very lukrative offers. That could still happen, There are lots of carriers out there that still have money or funding that would love to pick up the assests and territory.

I doubt that there are any lukrative offers out there right now, who would buy a broken company? Name anyone?.
As for the territory it is being taken by other carriers, the company has lied to customers, forced sales staff to lie to customers, why would anyone have any interest in taking over this mess?

The Oak H Drivers treated the customers right and in return the customers gave them their business, now the drivers are
gone, the service they gave the customers is gone. Customers are finding that other carriers are willing to give them the service Oak H once gave them.

Eventually Dave and Ed will have a bunch of abandoned
properties that will just sit empty ( however you could use some of them to store your unused equipment instead of paying to store it elsewhere like they are currently doing).
Outgoing money has to be a large amount,
Incoming minimal.
Only a matter of time.:smilie_132:

 

[v for vendetta]

i will agree the company has the right to run their company and a union becomes involved when the employees believe they are being taken advantage of. in some cases it is a just involvement but in others it appears the local union is after more members just for the sake of having more members.

in the case of OHFL how is it only half of the company is unionized.what is different in CA than WA.is it a terminal by terminal choice or does the union have to be invited in.

on the question of survival of OHFL can OHFL shut down a terminal for a week,month etc and reopen as a non-union.is there language in the contract that blocks this?

The unions strength and growth usually seem to me atleast to be based on a perceived need by employees.These needs include working conditions ,wages , healthcare, and retirement. Generally if a company meets these needs a union is not always needed . My feelings are that if a company ignores or abuses these needs they are solely responsible for creating a need for unions and even strengthening the union such as Oak Harbor has. From a personal stand point I have always looked to the union not as a protector but as an agent for negotiations.
As far as the union nonunion aspect of the company it is a terminal by terminal choice to be union or non. Bear in mind that over the course of time all raises in nonunion terminals were directly based on the outcome of our union negotiations in the Pacific NW. My personal opinion is that these nonunion termals perhaps do not need representation at this time. The company needs them to help in their attempts to bust the union up here. However if the union busting occurs the folks at the nonunion facilities will probably see Oaks true colors and feel a need for representation .The company will no longer need their loyalty and the oppressive hammer will fall. Oak can shut the door or negotiate anytime they choose.

 

[Who Cares]

i will agree the company has the right to run their company and a union becomes involved when the employees believe they are being taken advantage of. in some cases it is a just involvement but in others it appears the local union is after more members just for the sake of having more members.

in the case of OHFL how is it only half of the company is unionized.

Well for a starter Oak has always payed the non-union terminals the same as the Union. They have been riding our shirt tails without the guts to stick up and fight for what they got.

what is different in CA than WA.is it a terminal by terminal choice or does the union have to be invited in.

Well, see above. They need to sign cards and ask the Union to represent them. It would be terminal by terminal. FYI all the WA terminals are Union with the exception of Spokane, line is (well half-arsed) and P&D is not. OR has five that are non, six I guess since Medford didn't have the gonads to stand up. In ID only Boise was Union but they ran scared the first day

on the question of survival of OHFL can OHFL shut down a terminal for a week,month etc and reopen as a non-union.is there language in the contract that blocks this?

I was always under the impression that it is one year. What contract? It expired 10/31/2007. All they have to do is change the name by one letter, get operation authority and be a different company.

But then if you want an expert opinion you could always as Oak's lawyers. John P. at Davis Grimm Payne & Marra | Our Attorneys or Bob B. at Human Resources and Labor Relations - Braun Consulting Group

 

[Who Cares]

No it doesn't matter what rye thinks, but you leave out one part. OHFL doesn't have to settle or go out of business... SNIP.

I admire you all for standing by your convictions, just know when enough is enough.

Well said.

Thank you and your last six words should be listened to by both sides. Unfortunately I think it is too late.

 

[truckchick1]

There is no way the guys on strike can go back. They have been out there every day to stand for what they believe in. The company refuses to even talk. What the company is proposing is so far backwards these guys might as well work for joeblow trucking. Do whatever the company says and if you don't you are fired. I can understand concessions if the company is doing bad but Ed & Dave might have to give up a few golf games in these hard times. Do not take away everything these guys have worked for. Is that so much to ask for?

 

[iron eagle]

Anti union remarks on these pages come from two sources, very slow people, management. And you..


I count three not two.

 

[Who Cares]

Anti union remarks on these pages come from two sources, very slow people, management. And you..


I count three not two.

It would help if you would use the QUOTE button as no one can tell to whom you are replying to.

Or maybe I am one of the "slow people?"

Welcome to the Boards.

PS: Ed, the wooden shoes have dry rot.

 

[Big Al Teamster]

After 13 months scarlet roadblock finally woke up..."Unfortunately I think it is too late". He is by far the slowest thing on this blog. Go back in the tent and have another drink. Cry in your beer expert.

Wax on.

 

[Who Cares]

Well Big Al Want-a-be I don't know where you got the 13 months stuff as I have said long ago that anything after two weeks will be too late.

Still don't know how to use the Quote button?

I don't cry in beer, I drink it. And then after it cycles through my kindeys I p!ss it on the likes of you.

Wax off.

PS: Ed, the wooden shoes have dry rot