Lol!
"Let the bodies fall" .....
Darkstar
I am anticipating a deeply religeous experience.
"Let the bodies fall" .....
Darkstar
TForce | Congradulations Not In Order
- Thread starter Mrs.Nightwalker
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BigEmpty53
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Well, in the next 12 months we will shell out close to 900k in union dues. Let's see how that works in our favor.
True .....
.... and I understand how we worry about being left out in the rain without even a piece of paper to hold off the rain. I had a pension fund raided before, I don't think there is ever a feeling of sickness that will come close to losing your job, find out how you were lied to, and then find out for 16 years you worked and will receive a $170.00 a month pension. I know, it could be worse, and the $170.00 is very much appreciated, however, compared to what we were supposed to have received, it is a heart felt blow.
I am retired, have been since I put in my papers in 2000. Took a while to get my rulings, but it happened. From the time I was getting partial disability retirement until the 1st of this month, all my checks have come from the same place, SunTrust Bank out of Atlanta. The way a pension is set up, who the trustees are, is the way to keep sticky fingers off of the pension. Nowadays, most companies set up pensions (if they have one at all - this is non-union places) with a backdoor (like Enron) so they can take what they want. My first pension job was like that. And raid it they did, a year before we even knew anything was going on.
The reason I wanted to state what I did, I have heard that UPS got the pension in their hot little hands when they bought "O" from Union Pacific. However, in all the time UPS has owned "O", my check has never deviated from where it came from, nor one red penny difference. Last week I was told that the pension was "back" with the bank. IF UPS had been able to access the pension, they would not hand it back to SunTrust without a fight. After all, with all that is vested for retired employees now, it is quite a bit to "hand" it back over, don't you think? There was talk about it being changed into an "annuity", but even now I wonder about that - could be UPS learned they could not access it either, like Union Pacific learned, and Mr. C. himself.
What is already in trust will stay in trust (my $170.00 a month pension stayed in trust for over 15 years, was there when I let them know where to send it), there just will not be any money added to it - the Teamsters pension begins where UPSF leaves off.
And, to that, I would like to say there are a lot of UPSF people who will not be able to draw a Teamster pension, simply because they will be retiring before they reach that point. They had faith, they took the leap for those that come behind them, and that, my friends, takes a lot of soul searching and faith. Faith that they did the right thing for the right reasons. They definitely have our respect, and certainly do not deserve finger pointing by a disgruntled spouse of a road driver, let alone one disgruntled spouse that has never walked in our moccasins.
I am trying hard not to be mean spirited about the very first post of this thread, however, I feel the intent of that post was mean spirited to start with.
Darkstar
.... and I understand how we worry about being left out in the rain without even a piece of paper to hold off the rain. I had a pension fund raided before, I don't think there is ever a feeling of sickness that will come close to losing your job, find out how you were lied to, and then find out for 16 years you worked and will receive a $170.00 a month pension. I know, it could be worse, and the $170.00 is very much appreciated, however, compared to what we were supposed to have received, it is a heart felt blow.
I am retired, have been since I put in my papers in 2000. Took a while to get my rulings, but it happened. From the time I was getting partial disability retirement until the 1st of this month, all my checks have come from the same place, SunTrust Bank out of Atlanta. The way a pension is set up, who the trustees are, is the way to keep sticky fingers off of the pension. Nowadays, most companies set up pensions (if they have one at all - this is non-union places) with a backdoor (like Enron) so they can take what they want. My first pension job was like that. And raid it they did, a year before we even knew anything was going on.
The reason I wanted to state what I did, I have heard that UPS got the pension in their hot little hands when they bought "O" from Union Pacific. However, in all the time UPS has owned "O", my check has never deviated from where it came from, nor one red penny difference. Last week I was told that the pension was "back" with the bank. IF UPS had been able to access the pension, they would not hand it back to SunTrust without a fight. After all, with all that is vested for retired employees now, it is quite a bit to "hand" it back over, don't you think? There was talk about it being changed into an "annuity", but even now I wonder about that - could be UPS learned they could not access it either, like Union Pacific learned, and Mr. C. himself.
What is already in trust will stay in trust (my $170.00 a month pension stayed in trust for over 15 years, was there when I let them know where to send it), there just will not be any money added to it - the Teamsters pension begins where UPSF leaves off.
And, to that, I would like to say there are a lot of UPSF people who will not be able to draw a Teamster pension, simply because they will be retiring before they reach that point. They had faith, they took the leap for those that come behind them, and that, my friends, takes a lot of soul searching and faith. Faith that they did the right thing for the right reasons. They definitely have our respect, and certainly do not deserve finger pointing by a disgruntled spouse of a road driver, let alone one disgruntled spouse that has never walked in our moccasins.
I am trying hard not to be mean spirited about the very first post of this thread, however, I feel the intent of that post was mean spirited to start with.Darkstar
accelerator
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.... and I understand how we worry about being left out in the rain without even a piece of paper to hold off the rain. I had a pension fund raided before, I don't think there is ever a feeling of sickness that will come close to losing your job, find out how you were lied to, and then find out for 16 years you worked and will receive a $170.00 a month pension. I know, it could be worse, and the $170.00 is very much appreciated, however, compared to what we were supposed to have received, it is a heart felt blow.
I am retired, have been since I put in my papers in 2000. Took a while to get my rulings, but it happened. From the time I was getting partial disability retirement until the 1st of this month, all my checks have come from the same place, SunTrust Bank out of Atlanta. The way a pension is set up, who the trustees are, is the way to keep sticky fingers off of the pension. Nowadays, most companies set up pensions (if they have one at all - this is non-union places) with a backdoor (like Enron) so they can take what they want. My first pension job was like that. And raid it they did, a year before we even knew anything was going on.
The reason I wanted to state what I did, I have heard that UPS got the pension in their hot little hands when they bought "O" from Union Pacific. However, in all the time UPS has owned "O", my check has never deviated from where it came from, nor one red penny difference. Last week I was told that the pension was "back" with the bank. IF UPS had been able to access the pension, they would not hand it back to SunTrust without a fight. After all, with all that is vested for retired employees now, it is quite a bit to "hand" it back over, don't you think? There was talk about it being changed into an "annuity", but even now I wonder about that - could be UPS learned they could not access it either, like Union Pacific learned, and Mr. C. himself.
What is already in trust will stay in trust (my $170.00 a month pension stayed in trust for over 15 years, was there when I let them know where to send it), there just will not be any money added to it - the Teamsters pension begins where UPSF leaves off.
And, to that, I would like to say there are a lot of UPSF people who will not be able to draw a Teamster pension, simply because they will be retiring before they reach that point. They had faith, they took the leap for those that come behind them, and that, my friends, takes a lot of soul searching and faith. Faith that they did the right thing for the right reasons. They definitely have our respect, and certainly do not deserve finger pointing by a disgruntled spouse of a road driver, let alone one disgruntled spouse that has never walked in our moccasins.
Darkstar
Allthough I agree with your post Darkstar 100%, I think the issue at hand is not wether the pention most of us have can be taken away , but rather the future hirees not having one.
How so Accelerator?
Here is where my knowledge about how this will affect future hirees comes to a screeching halt - I don't understand about how the Teamster's pension works.
My discussions were always about the "O" pension, and am confused completely (not hard to confuse me) about if a person is started in the pension first day, if they have a "waiting period", etc.
Maybe it would help if this was discussed, why those worries exist, because I am at a loss here. I understand I am wandering into territory I have no place in, however, I would like for the men and ladies involved to be able to express exactly, and I do mean exactly, what their concerns are without them feeling they will be ridiculed. Until the pension worry is completely explained, then it will be a "boogey man" waiting to pop out of the darkness and grab a person's attention forever.
Many will not stand up and question anything, let alone the pension, in front of a group of their fellow co-workers. A lot come here to gather what information they can and avoid that problem. Capish?
Darkstar
Here is where my knowledge about how this will affect future hirees comes to a screeching halt - I don't understand about how the Teamster's pension works.
My discussions were always about the "O" pension, and am confused completely (not hard to confuse me
) about if a person is started in the pension first day, if they have a "waiting period", etc.Maybe it would help if this was discussed, why those worries exist, because I am at a loss here. I understand I am wandering into territory I have no place in, however, I would like for the men and ladies involved to be able to express exactly, and I do mean exactly, what their concerns are without them feeling they will be ridiculed. Until the pension worry is completely explained, then it will be a "boogey man" waiting to pop out of the darkness and grab a person's attention forever.
Many will not stand up and question anything, let alone the pension, in front of a group of their fellow co-workers. A lot come here to gather what information they can and avoid that problem. Capish?
Darkstar
After sitting and going over the "contract" for several days, all I can say is that there are so many loopholes, and contradictions in it that it looks like a block of Swiss Cheese. The holes are so big that the UPS lawyers could fly a DC-10 through some of them. The next five years will be be the new beginning of grievances and arbitration to get the pay and benefits that we were told about but were not clearly spelled out. My first bet will be the vacation pay issue.
The main thing that shocked me was seniority. We always had company and terminal classification. If there was a lay off it went by company seniority.
Not according to our union rep. If in your job class even if you have thirty years if the guy ahead of you has 6 months and he is ahead of you in job class you are laid off first. Where Overnite always went by company.
That's a little hard to believe.
We was told we get an average 1/52 for vacations like before. I don't know where this by the hour nonsense came from.
imported_mr.breeze
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.... and I understand how we worry about being left out in the rain without even a piece of paper to hold off the rain. I had a pension fund raided before, I don't think there is ever a feeling of sickness that will come close to losing your job, find out how you were lied to, and then find out for 16 years you worked and will receive a $170.00 a month pension. I know, it could be worse, and the $170.00 is very much appreciated, however, compared to what we were supposed to have received, it is a heart felt blow.
I am retired, have been since I put in my papers in 2000. Took a while to get my rulings, but it happened. From the time I was getting partial disability retirement until the 1st of this month, all my checks have come from the same place, SunTrust Bank out of Atlanta. The way a pension is set up, who the trustees are, is the way to keep sticky fingers off of the pension. Nowadays, most companies set up pensions (if they have one at all - this is non-union places) with a backdoor (like Enron) so they can take what they want. My first pension job was like that. And raid it they did, a year before we even knew anything was going on.
The reason I wanted to state what I did, I have heard that UPS got the pension in their hot little hands when they bought "O" from Union Pacific. However, in all the time UPS has owned "O", my check has never deviated from where it came from, nor one red penny difference. Last week I was told that the pension was "back" with the bank. IF UPS had been able to access the pension, they would not hand it back to SunTrust without a fight. After all, with all that is vested for retired employees now, it is quite a bit to "hand" it back over, don't you think? There was talk about it being changed into an "annuity", but even now I wonder about that - could be UPS learned they could not access it either, like Union Pacific learned, and Mr. C. himself.
What is already in trust will stay in trust (my $170.00 a month pension stayed in trust for over 15 years, was there when I let them know where to send it), there just will not be any money added to it - the Teamsters pension begins where UPSF leaves off.
And, to that, I would like to say there are a lot of UPSF people who will not be able to draw a Teamster pension, simply because they will be retiring before they reach that point. They had faith, they took the leap for those that come behind them, and that, my friends, takes a lot of soul searching and faith. Faith that they did the right thing for the right reasons. They definitely have our respect, and certainly do not deserve finger pointing by a disgruntled spouse of a road driver, let alone one disgruntled spouse that has never walked in our moccasins.
Darkstar
Darkstar,
The pension couldbe "borrowed" from. Mr. Cochrane did so in order to build facilities. He also had to pay substantial interest back to the fund and only x amount of dollars could be borrowed. It was set up so as to protect the employees pensions. Yep...no corporate raiders can lift it ! I have sat silently as Mrs. Nightwalker has bashed everyone who ratified the contract. I wonder if her hubby knows she is on here talking smack to his co workers ? The bottom line is that this was a done deal when UPS bought us. I must say that the purchase of Overnite/MC is probably why most of us have jobs today. We would have never survived as an independent. I believe we will see some of these indies go under if the economy keeps tanking. Mrs. N...I suggest that you go about your daily routine that you used to incorporate before the voting got started. No use crying over spilled milk now. Spilled beer .... maybe. Now we must unite and make the best of this contract,take notes and submit our contract demands in 2013. Good luck my union brethern, stand tall and proud.
Mrs.Nightwalker
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I remember something that popped up when the deal was cut to sell "O" to Union Pacific. Union Pacific was all set to "borrow" the pension, investing it back into "O". I spoke to a Memphis road driver who spent a lot of time with the big wigs of "O", knew Mr C. quite well.
When I asked if our pension was going to be raided, this driver laughed and said he had heard Mr. C. say before that he had even done it up so tight that even he could not touch a dime of it. He did it on purpose, he knew exactly what he was doing. And, this road driver also told me Union Pacific was really steaming when they found out they had bought "O" and could not even breath on the pension, let alone touch one dime of it. Never happened, did it?
I have heard the same talk for the past 20 years, and if Union Pacific with all their sticky fingers could not find a crack in the pension that allowed them to "borrow" it, then I believe it cannot be done.
The intent of the first post in this thread was to stir up trouble where none existed, and worry about our pension is always guaranteed to bring out the worst in us. Everyone can settle down, dig in, work together, get on with life or stay divided and fall flat on their collective arses. Many do not like that the union is almost in every terminal, but when these 5 years are past, those same "many" will wonder what the heck they were thinking when they held out for so long against the union.
Mrs. Nightwalker is NOT a UPSF employee, a former employee, or a future employee - and I seriously doubt Nightwalker appreciates her being here digging. I certainly would not want my spouse on here talking crap, crap that could fly back into MY face.
I think I "perdy" well said what I signed in to say - so here's looking at you.
Darkstar
Your right Darkside, I'm not an employee of UPSF. I wouldn't want to be. I don't call it crap, I call it my opinion just like the rest of you guys on here. If it's not an opinion, then the rest of you talk crap to, right? And Nightwalker is the one who said I should come on here. Oh, and I do tell him what I say on here. I don't think you like a woman's opinion Darkside. I don't think you like woman to be on here at all. Well, guess what, I'm still going to give my crap (opinion) just like the rest of you do. Have a nice day.
imported_mr.breeze
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I don't mind a womans opinion...I am a lover of women...I just think your opinion is skewed. We need to promote brotherhood within our ranks...NOT DIVISION. You, Mrs. Nightwalker,are having some kind of anger issue because the workers of UPSF ratified a contract to which you opposed. Your husband will still get the pension HE was promised. Cheaper insurance, and a work guarantee. UPS has taken away from us since they bought the company. How much more did you expect the employees to give up to remain non-union ?
Here we go again ......
See, there you go disrespecting - the handle is "Darkstar". However, I could do the same and call you Mrs. Nightshade - and we all know that "nightshade" is definitely a poison, kills everything that touches it.
I believe every person should speak their mind and learn from their experience. I do not care if a person is woman or man, what ethnic heritage a person is. It just so happen there are verrry few women drivers, and the office personnel are not involved because they are not seeking representation, never have.
I do not respect a man that hides behind a woman's skirts, sends a woman out to do his battle. Nightwalker should stand up, be his own person, quit hiding behind your skirts (if indeed that is what is happening).
I will tell you and everyone else that when I met "Nightwalker", the bad vibes I felt from him were so strong that I told him I appreciated him stopping by, but that I was getting such a bad feeling bouncing from him I would appreciate him not being around me. Those same vibes I get from people caused me to tell a road driver to please fasten his seat belt (he never wore it while driving before) before he left our yard. Later on, a car swerved in front of him on a bridge, he swerved, tossed his wagons, landed the tractor pretty close to dropping off the bridge. Had he not fastened his seat belt, he would have been thrown out of the tractor. Simple as that. Don't mess with what you do not know about Mrs. Nightwalker.
You know nothing of what happened to other employees at the hands of management, you know nothing firsthand of the ridicule, harassment, intimidation and so forth many of the employees received before union organization. That is over with, along with other tricks in their bag of horror. Get with the program - Teamster representation - learn to live with it, make the most of it, because that is the future, nothing is ever a cure all, but at least will be a huge difference in what is and what was.
If "Nightwalker" does not want to be a Teamster, then I suggest he quit UPSF and find something to do where he and you would be happier. If you live in a "right to work" state, then he does not have to join the union, however, no self respecting person will enjoy the benefits provided by another person staking everything (any many did in the first go around) if he is any kind of a man. I have known working people that would not work on Saturday, knew one person at McLean Trucking that would not join the union, because of their religion. However, the guy at McLean fought right alongside his union co-workers, fought FOR them, respected them. If you do not respect yourself first, then you will never respect anyone else.
I do not have a problem with you - evidently you do have a problem with me.
God never closes a door without opening another one up - heard it all my life, and know it to be true. However, you have opened a door in the hallway to Hell. You opened it yourself, not God.
Darkstar
See, there you go disrespecting - the handle is "Darkstar". However, I could do the same and call you Mrs. Nightshade - and we all know that "nightshade" is definitely a poison, kills everything that touches it.
I believe every person should speak their mind and learn from their experience. I do not care if a person is woman or man, what ethnic heritage a person is. It just so happen there are verrry few women drivers, and the office personnel are not involved because they are not seeking representation, never have.
I do not respect a man that hides behind a woman's skirts, sends a woman out to do his battle. Nightwalker should stand up, be his own person, quit hiding behind your skirts (if indeed that is what is happening).
I will tell you and everyone else that when I met "Nightwalker", the bad vibes I felt from him were so strong that I told him I appreciated him stopping by, but that I was getting such a bad feeling bouncing from him I would appreciate him not being around me. Those same vibes I get from people caused me to tell a road driver to please fasten his seat belt (he never wore it while driving before) before he left our yard. Later on, a car swerved in front of him on a bridge, he swerved, tossed his wagons, landed the tractor pretty close to dropping off the bridge. Had he not fastened his seat belt, he would have been thrown out of the tractor. Simple as that. Don't mess with what you do not know about Mrs. Nightwalker.
You know nothing of what happened to other employees at the hands of management, you know nothing firsthand of the ridicule, harassment, intimidation and so forth many of the employees received before union organization. That is over with, along with other tricks in their bag of horror. Get with the program - Teamster representation - learn to live with it, make the most of it, because that is the future, nothing is ever a cure all, but at least will be a huge difference in what is and what was.
If "Nightwalker" does not want to be a Teamster, then I suggest he quit UPSF and find something to do where he and you would be happier. If you live in a "right to work" state, then he does not have to join the union, however, no self respecting person will enjoy the benefits provided by another person staking everything (any many did in the first go around) if he is any kind of a man. I have known working people that would not work on Saturday, knew one person at McLean Trucking that would not join the union, because of their religion. However, the guy at McLean fought right alongside his union co-workers, fought FOR them, respected them. If you do not respect yourself first, then you will never respect anyone else.
I do not have a problem with you - evidently you do have a problem with me.
God never closes a door without opening another one up - heard it all my life, and know it to be true. However, you have opened a door in the hallway to Hell. You opened it yourself, not God.
Darkstar
LOL - I used the term .....
..... "borrow" loosely - meaning they planned on getting what they could while they could, then get out, whether they ever repaid anything they "borrowed".
I did not know exactly how the "O" pension was set up, but I knew Mr. C. or anyone else could never raid it, buy a cheap annuity (like my former employer did) and stiff the employees. I do know how much respect Mr. C. had for the workers.
Everything you said in your post mr. breeze is verrrry true, and I do wish everyone the best. No matter how hard the road seems sometimes, I do not feel deciding to be a Teamster is a bad thing at all! Nothing worthwhile is ever easy, is it - take one day at a time.
Darkstar
..... "borrow" loosely - meaning they planned on getting what they could while they could, then get out, whether they ever repaid anything they "borrowed".
I did not know exactly how the "O" pension was set up, but I knew Mr. C. or anyone else could never raid it, buy a cheap annuity (like my former employer did) and stiff the employees. I do know how much respect Mr. C. had for the workers.
Everything you said in your post mr. breeze is verrrry true, and I do wish everyone the best. No matter how hard the road seems sometimes, I do not feel deciding to be a Teamster is a bad thing at all! Nothing worthwhile is ever easy, is it - take one day at a time.
Darkstar
Mrs.Nightwalker
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I apologize not saying your name right Darkstar. Didn't mean to. I'm not disrespectful, It's just my opinion. And your not being disrespectful with the skirt remark? NO, HE DOES NOT HIDE BEHIND MY SKIRTS. Number one I don't wear skirts.Ha Ha Ha! And he's not on here because he works hard. I don't want to argue with you, It's my opinion, and I've have had that opinon for years. I understand unions, and I understand they are good and bad. My dad has been in unions for 40 years. He's retired and still in the union. He knows how I feel about unions, and he respects that. He doesn't bash me about it. You've heard my opinion and i've heard yours. I'm willing to bury the hatchet if you are.
Six Of One, Half A Dozen Of Another .....
Six of one, half a dozen of another. I do not carry a grudge over your opinion - it is kinda late for such a bitter post for you to let your/"Nightwalker"'s feelings be known. Kind of like just plain waiting until the "safety net" is in place so the blowback will be controlled.
Every person that comes to post here, on the other trucking forums, works hard. Kennesaw Kid and a lot of the others spend an enormous amounts of off time working for the betterment of these members, to make things easier for the transistor to a unionized work place. They do not "toot" their own horn for what they do, that is not their way.
Again, it is not so much the post itself (there are quite a number that do not agree with some parts of the unionization, however, they are trying to get things all together and get on with making everything work the way it is supposed to), it is the spirit in which it was made. Pure venom, finger pointing, "look at what you did", malicious intent - for what? That the employees had enough, wanted to be treated as human beings, wanted to be appreciated, wanted the daily doses of dung splashing stopped? That they came to their senses and made the right move finally? Is that what is bothering you - that these men have the spine to take the bull by the horns and put it to the ground?
You never posted while the first attempt at unionization was going on - why now, after the process is almost done? Why now?
As for the "skirt" comments - they stand. If a man sends a woman out to do a job he himself would not do, then he is a coward. Whether you wear skirts or pants is of no consequence, you know exactly what I mean.
There is no "hatchet" to bury - you buried it in your foot long ago. It could be worse - you could have shot yourself in the foot instead.
Six of one, half a dozen of another. :hand: We are done now.
Darkstar
Six of one, half a dozen of another. I do not carry a grudge over your opinion - it is kinda late for such a bitter post for you to let your/"Nightwalker"'s feelings be known. Kind of like just plain waiting until the "safety net" is in place so the blowback will be controlled.
Every person that comes to post here, on the other trucking forums, works hard. Kennesaw Kid and a lot of the others spend an enormous amounts of off time working for the betterment of these members, to make things easier for the transistor to a unionized work place. They do not "toot" their own horn for what they do, that is not their way.
Again, it is not so much the post itself (there are quite a number that do not agree with some parts of the unionization, however, they are trying to get things all together and get on with making everything work the way it is supposed to), it is the spirit in which it was made. Pure venom, finger pointing, "look at what you did", malicious intent - for what? That the employees had enough, wanted to be treated as human beings, wanted to be appreciated, wanted the daily doses of dung splashing stopped? That they came to their senses and made the right move finally? Is that what is bothering you - that these men have the spine to take the bull by the horns and put it to the ground?
You never posted while the first attempt at unionization was going on - why now, after the process is almost done? Why now?
As for the "skirt" comments - they stand. If a man sends a woman out to do a job he himself would not do, then he is a coward. Whether you wear skirts or pants is of no consequence, you know exactly what I mean.
There is no "hatchet" to bury - you buried it in your foot long ago. It could be worse - you could have shot yourself in the foot instead.
Six of one, half a dozen of another. :hand: We are done now.
Darkstar
Nightwalker
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This is Nightwalker,Darkstar. I take offense to your skirt comment but that is typical. I had two trucks shot from under me during the last strike and the brick that has permantly disfigured and damaged McCain from Memphis coming accors the old bridge was meant for me. Of course no one was ever prosecuted for that so we cannot actually say who it was. My feelings are what they are, I have been with this company 17 years and I am staying. You do not know me, as I have NEVER roled a set of doubles. As to the teamsters, My wife and I don't have as much of a problem with them as I do individuals who act out violence and demeaning verbage to beat others down in their name. We have drivers who will never drive again, because of those individuals. As I read your reply talking about a set of doubles being rolled I knew that you had me mixed up with someone else. We, the drivers who stood against the union for so many years are still working here and will still work here; but there are those like yourself that would beat people down verbally or possibly otherwise because in this Democratic society if someon should voice an opinion other that what you want to hear you are like lighting to them in your effort to demean, ridicule and denounce them. I sometimes wonder why I served for so many years in the Navy to defend your right to speak your thoughts without ridicule but I guess I also served to defend your right to verbally or through print; your right to demean others opinions.
It is people like your self not the Teamsters that have angered me and my wife over the years. Allow people to speak their minds, Darkstar, remember, the Teamsters are supposed to be a Democratic Union in a Democratic society.
Mrs. Nightwalker has lived through that time with me and she has her own opinions about the individuals that acted in the Teamsters name with or without there approval.
We do not share your opinion Darkstar on many things but I will not reduce myself to attacking you personally or attacking your right to think and speak your mind and your opinion. We ask the same respect, I would hope that since it seems that you feel impowered now and that you have won the war on unionizing Ups freight you would be more at ease with your victory.
Why do you feel so threatened by an individuals opinion? You should feel on top of the world and a single opinion should not stand you on your head as it seems this has done. I f nothing else respect the democratic process and allow others to speak without personal attacks. Nightwalker
It is people like your self not the Teamsters that have angered me and my wife over the years. Allow people to speak their minds, Darkstar, remember, the Teamsters are supposed to be a Democratic Union in a Democratic society.
Mrs. Nightwalker has lived through that time with me and she has her own opinions about the individuals that acted in the Teamsters name with or without there approval.
We do not share your opinion Darkstar on many things but I will not reduce myself to attacking you personally or attacking your right to think and speak your mind and your opinion. We ask the same respect, I would hope that since it seems that you feel impowered now and that you have won the war on unionizing Ups freight you would be more at ease with your victory.
Why do you feel so threatened by an individuals opinion? You should feel on top of the world and a single opinion should not stand you on your head as it seems this has done. I f nothing else respect the democratic process and allow others to speak without personal attacks. Nightwalker
The Kitchen Sink ........
At last you come out from behind the skirts. Mrs Nightwalker stated YOU told her to come on here and (for a better term) point out just how ill advised everyone was for voting in the union. And, why do you feel that Mr. McC's "accident" was meant for YOU? Can you prove that? Or, was it something that was to happen at that time and that place, no matter WHO the driver was?
As everyone was, Teamsters and "O" employees, I was shocked and saddened at all the violence which occurred during the first go around - however, it ALL cannot be laid at the Teamsters feet only.
As for the "demeaning, ridiculing, denouncing" you are ranting about - read Mrs. N's post at the start of this thread. HER words are what started this thread, not mine. If she/you cannot take the heat, then stay out of the kitchen. How does your service record figure in this? Throwing in the kitchen sink too? Anyone that has served deserves the upmost respect, and I too had family members serve, been injured, been in Hell after coming home. That you resent anyone who does not conform to your/Mrs. N's way of thinking about owing YOU something, well, your service record has no business being brought up here. And, then too, where in the heck did I ever say YOU rolled a set of doubles? You are sooooo intent on drubbing me into the ground you have lost all reasoning.
"Empowered"?? No, I am just like all the rest of the employees who were on the receiving end of management abuse, and I believe anyone that took a stand against it, voted for the union, has the right to peace, not the rantings of a bitter spouse of one that did not. No one person will ever know the exact toll this movement took on other peoples lives, marriages, finances, health - it cannot be totaled. If you think I would be happy about the outcome, dancing in the streets, waving the flag, saying "Me!" "Me!" "Look at ME!" - then you are more bitter than I previously thought. I am RELIEVED things have come to a conclusion, and hope that people can overcome all the heartaches to be able to work with one another. If they can't, then they definitely need to find something else to do, because all that will happen is that person will continue to cause division, problems.
"O" is no longer - UPSFreight is who the company is, if you are not willing to accept that fact, especially the fact it is unionized after a long hard fought fight, then YOU have a problem, not ME, not UPSF.
Again, it was a malicious post whose intent to divide, insult, demean all these workers who have fought the good fight, and have won the right to be union. No one person has the right to sling crap in their faces, and should expect it to come right back as it was sent out. Maybe Mrs.N rules the house, you rule Mrs.N, but you do not rule the thoughts of the many.
Am I insulted, intimidated, otherwise upset by your ranting? Not in the least. The fruit does not fall far from the tree, so I expected it, and as previously stated to Mrs.N - we are done here. :hand: And, I do know you, and I did tell you to please stay away from me because of the bad vibes that bounced off of you. Get over it.
Darkstar
At last you come out from behind the skirts. Mrs Nightwalker stated YOU told her to come on here and (for a better term) point out just how ill advised everyone was for voting in the union. And, why do you feel that Mr. McC's "accident" was meant for YOU? Can you prove that? Or, was it something that was to happen at that time and that place, no matter WHO the driver was?
As everyone was, Teamsters and "O" employees, I was shocked and saddened at all the violence which occurred during the first go around - however, it ALL cannot be laid at the Teamsters feet only.
As for the "demeaning, ridiculing, denouncing" you are ranting about - read Mrs. N's post at the start of this thread. HER words are what started this thread, not mine. If she/you cannot take the heat, then stay out of the kitchen. How does your service record figure in this? Throwing in the kitchen sink too? Anyone that has served deserves the upmost respect, and I too had family members serve, been injured, been in Hell after coming home. That you resent anyone who does not conform to your/Mrs. N's way of thinking about owing YOU something, well, your service record has no business being brought up here. And, then too, where in the heck did I ever say YOU rolled a set of doubles? You are sooooo intent on drubbing me into the ground you have lost all reasoning.
"Empowered"?? No, I am just like all the rest of the employees who were on the receiving end of management abuse, and I believe anyone that took a stand against it, voted for the union, has the right to peace, not the rantings of a bitter spouse of one that did not. No one person will ever know the exact toll this movement took on other peoples lives, marriages, finances, health - it cannot be totaled. If you think I would be happy about the outcome, dancing in the streets, waving the flag, saying "Me!" "Me!" "Look at ME!" - then you are more bitter than I previously thought. I am RELIEVED things have come to a conclusion, and hope that people can overcome all the heartaches to be able to work with one another. If they can't, then they definitely need to find something else to do, because all that will happen is that person will continue to cause division, problems.
"O" is no longer - UPSFreight is who the company is, if you are not willing to accept that fact, especially the fact it is unionized after a long hard fought fight, then YOU have a problem, not ME, not UPSF.
Again, it was a malicious post whose intent to divide, insult, demean all these workers who have fought the good fight, and have won the right to be union. No one person has the right to sling crap in their faces, and should expect it to come right back as it was sent out. Maybe Mrs.N rules the house, you rule Mrs.N, but you do not rule the thoughts of the many.
Am I insulted, intimidated, otherwise upset by your ranting? Not in the least. The fruit does not fall far from the tree, so I expected it, and as previously stated to Mrs.N - we are done here. :hand: And, I do know you, and I did tell you to please stay away from me because of the bad vibes that bounced off of you. Get over it.
Darkstar