Discussion in 'Fedex Freight' started by SwampRatt, Mar 17, 2015.

  1. SwampRatt

    SwampRatt Well-Known Member

    Red, you started out real good, reasonable and logical, but couldn't finish the 1st sentence without going wildly astray.

    1st, your unintended consequence. It currently costs the Company 50% more for each hour spent on overtime. Placing the city drivers under the same benefit as road would be of minimal cost, since the increased cost would only apply to those overtime hours. Regardless, it IS the most fair method. Do you really think that will cause a rethinking of the overtime allowed/required, any more than the 50% extra per hour spent now? Nonsense.

    2nd,your assertion that road is paid primarily mileage is also misleading. Sure, as a whole, that is the case, but it is not universal. Many road drivers get less mileage pay than hourly pay. Some city drivers have been known to get a significant portion of their wage from mileage. What does this do to your justification?

    3rd, Now you want to talk about the degree of inequity, as being the reason? Since the 40 hour pay is "closer" to city drivers' average? Thanks guy. Another lame attempt at reason, Red. A city driver who averages 50 hours a week currently receives vacation pay of around 37.5% less than his/her average check. Even based on a mere 44 hours/week the average wage is 15% more than the vacation week. Under your reasoning, city guys should pay less for the health insurance, or road should receive a flat fee 401k benefit. as opposed to city receiving the percentage method. Absurd, right? No one suggested cutting road down to city size, in terms of the vacation benefit. Merely suggesting the same benefit for all drivers.

    4th, by definition, vacation pay is an "earned benefit"

    Not sure how/why you figured that company seniority vs job class seniority fit into this discussion :scratchhead:. It doesn't.

    The challenge was for a valid case to be made for the vacation benefit calculation to be different for some drivers, rather than the same for all drivers. That case has not yet been made. Next...
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2015
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  2. Redracer3136

    Redracer3136 BANNED

    Sorry you misunderstood my post, I'm agreeing with you that the city's vacation pay SHOULD be based on their annual pay just as ours. My reasoning as to why it wasn't was merely a suggestion, I can't say for certain why it's not, was just trying to offer up an explanation, that's all.

    1) As for the unintended consequences, I was just pointing out a fact. I said it "could" happen not "would" happen, there is a difference...had you approached the subject with an open mind you would've seen this.

    2) A "majority" of road driver's pay is based on milage just as a majority of city driver's pay is based on hourly...."majority" should've been understood, didn't know I had to actually say it...therefor, a "majority" justifies my statement.

    3) Using your reasoning, how many city drivers average 50 hours a week "annually"? My guess would be a lot less than you think...annually I'm thinking even 44 might be a stretch for most...some yes, but not most. The free market dictates the pay of city and road drivers and a majority of drivers have had the option to do both jobs in their careers. Please don't patronize the road drivers just because most city drivers chose to stay in the city (I know you're better than that), a majority have had the opportunity to come to the road and passed on it.

    4) Yes, vacation is an "earned benefit", I brought it up because we were talking about equality for all drivers....shouldn't this topic also be included? At our center, we also have city drivers who were once road drivers, they were forced back to the city at the bottom of the board or get laid off...shouldn't their company seniority count when bidding vacation? Is it fair that they have 15 years with the company and bid vacation behind someone who's been here 10 years?
    I'd say it DOES fit into the conversation.

    Again, I wasn't trying to make a case for the indifference, was just offering up an explanation as to why it was, that's all.
  3. SwampRatt

    SwampRatt Well-Known Member

    Thanks for clarifying, Redracer. Didn't mean to get wound up, but I had spoken to a City driver friend in Reno a while back. He'd posed the same question (to a regional manager) of the different vacation benefit and he received the same "excuse" (degree of inequity). Again, I really didn't think you'd want to support the status quo on this topic. It struck me as kinda odd.

    #3 As far as averages, I can only speak from personal/location experience. The average would be somewhere between the 44/50. Probably more specifically 46-47. You are absolutely right that some at the very bottom would be lucky to average 44. I would expect similar variation on the (short run) road side regardless of predominant pay source (miles or hourly), mostly due to sitting home, at times.

    #4 Actually, as it turns out, you make an excellent point. Probably should be a based on Company seniority. Not exactly within the same topic, but valid none the less. That would benefit me, but it's not my personal issue, nor have I heard much squawk about it, probably because it affects so few. :idunno:
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2015
  4. Redracer3136

    Redracer3136 BANNED

    As for road, 40 hours of vacation pay would be about 25% less for shorter runs and about 75% less for the longer runs. Again, that's why many ask for 10 hrs of pay when using a personal day vs 8 hrs because of the discrepancy. No excuses, was just trying to provide a possible reason.

    I also agree, location could cause various average hours accrued annually....for instance, at most hubs where the number of city drivers exceeds 100, I would guess that the average for that center would be lower than say a satellite with 30 city drivers....then again it could all be relative, what do I know??

    As for vacation, again this appears to be a bigger issue at the hubs where a majority of the lower half of the road boards have more company seniority than the majority of the upper half of the road board....this due to most of the lower half of the road board started as city drivers then transferred to the road after many of those upper road drivers were hired.
    When/if layoffs occur, the cuts start at the bottom then jump to the middle of the board....and yes, we have experienced layoffs at our center in the past...although they weren't called "layoffs."
    Just thinking out loud I guess.
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2015
  5. 00mustang

    00mustang ON THE ROAD IN THE WAY @61.97

    I can see both of your points,would like to show what we have at my place,(hope I don't get in trouble here) . We earn 2% per weeks of vacation of our annual pay,(ie. 2% = 1 week ,4%=2 weeks etc etc) based on our annual pay from our seniority date to seniorrty date.We max out at 10%=5 weeks. In another contract we had hourly got 45hr's per week for vacation or 9 hr's per day kinda in the middle from what Red said. Mine averages about what I take home during the year per week. The drawback I don't like is it's all paid in 1 check on which you get hammered on taxes.On bidding your vacation it should be by company senioirty not classifaction. Not trying to say I'm better than anybody else but senioirty is the way it needs to work, "nuff said just my 2 cents and going back to watch basket ball
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  6. SwampRatt

    SwampRatt Well-Known Member

    Likely, the Yacht guys never see it... Still, depending on the topic, it can be more effective than "just a conversation" with H/R. Some situations warrant a simple conversation, others warrant a Hotline call. Just know the Hotline call can take 5 days for your issue to travel through all the channels and get back down to you.

    "Information you provide using the FedEx Alert Line will be promptly transmitted to the appropriate parties, which may include members of senior management and persons from any or all of the following FedEx departments: legal, security, human resources and internal audit. When you contact the FedEx Alert Line, your report will be assigned a control number that will allow you to follow up to receive an update on the matter from FedEx, if any is available, or to contribute additional information."
  7. SwampRatt

    SwampRatt Well-Known Member

    Not wanting to make this a singular issue thread, any others have any constructive criticism, feed back, suggestions? Anything?

    What about results of the new PSP focus? Is anyone seeing actual improvement? I've heard from some that have seen no improvement, or even steps backwards in terms of professional tone in the workplace. Some have improved, perhaps for that "other" reason. Is this a regional thing? Individual locations? Would be great to hear other's experience throughout the system.

    While most are still waiting for the tangible improvements, for some the "workable relationship" part is making it's way down, I hear. Not wanting to be too specific...but at my location, (S/E region?) Directed by D. Davis/B. Strickland, on down, they do seem to have taken the PSP thing seriously.

    On the suggestion side of things... The regional pay scales that are said to be receiving redress in June? One simple component should be to eliminate the bottom 2 or 3 (of the current 5?) geographic pay scales. There is little need for 5, IMHO.

    :smilie93c peelout:
  8. The Point

    The Point You get it or not!

    No real movement in either direction here.
  9. silent trucker

    silent trucker Well-Known Member

    Actually, the argument is that road drivers have an expectation of higher income based upon work assignment. City drivers have no right to expect overtime, since their actual work assignment is 40 hours.
  10. silent trucker

    silent trucker Well-Known Member

    Methinks you'll see 3 scales instead of 5. There does need to be a higher scale in areas where the cost of living is outrageous. For those who argue this, how do we staff a facility where the cost of living is crazy high, and no one wants to live there? North Dakota oilfields are proof of this simple principle.
    moose likes this.
  11. Crazy Trucker

    Crazy Trucker Clown Math Expert

    There should be only one pay scale. Imo
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  12. SwampRatt

    SwampRatt Well-Known Member

    Not sure where live, ST, that has an actual 40 hour work assignment. While the driver can not/should not expect more, the Company has the expectation (requirement) that you are available for overtime. 40 hours is a rarity, except for that vacation week...

    I agree, there is a need for higher scale in some locations. The term "prevailing wage" comes to mind. FedEx Freight should be at or very near that figure, IMHO.
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  13. silent trucker

    silent trucker Well-Known Member

    SR, a city driver is hired to work 40 hours. While I agree that many work all sorts of hours, that's not the expectation when hired. Road drivers are hired and told to expect to work 70 hours per week, nights, days, weekends and holidays. Thus, Road drivers have a right to expect more compensation. End of lesson.
  14. Crazy Trucker

    Crazy Trucker Clown Math Expert

    If thats the case I guess when a city drver hits ot they can just drop what their doing and go back to terminal. You don't make any sense city drivers are expected to stay until the job is done which includes ot.
  15. SwampRatt

    SwampRatt Well-Known Member

    But professor ST, your lesson is deeply flawed. Take a short walk with me, and I'll try to help you to see.

    1st When I was hired, I was told to expect MORE than 40 hrs/week. They obviously couldn't guarantee, but the assurance was given that MOST of the time I'd likely get more. And since that has, in fact, held true for over 20 yrs, I'm fairly certain that I am not am isolated case. Other than those vacation checks, I've had less than a dozen 40 hour weeks in all those years. Maybe only 1/2 dozen...

    Now lets talk about this road expectation. Just so you know, I've done that too. Your MYTH "sounds" plausible on the surface, until we look a little closer. I know of no LTL road driver told to expect to work 70 hrs/wk. Certainly not at AF or FedEx Freight.

    Up until 2003, the legal limit was 70 hours in EIGHT (8) days, not per week. Only with the advent of the 34 hour restart provision, is that even possible. Might it happen, where a person runs the max 14/day for 5 days working 70 hours? It might happen on occasion. Also, Weekends? Nonsense. That would be optional. Holidays too? I've never seen that be mandatory...

    Again, the NORMAL/AVERAGE (LTL) road driver does NOT work 70 hrs/wk, day AND night, AND weekends AND holidays. Your mythical road driver does not exist. He is the stuff of legends. A myth. Even if he did exist, that would not justify having a lesser benefit for city drivers. City drivers occasionally do 14 hour days too. Did you know that?

    The annual method for figuring vacation benefits takes into account all extremes in work schedules, from the easiest to the most grueling. It is the Far Superior Method. FACT.
  16. silent trucker

    silent trucker Well-Known Member

    Actually, in my barn 3 of our 10 drivers work weekends by bid. We also work close to 70 hours a week. There are lots of folks in southern California who work these schedules. Tucson 3/2 layovers for starters. Just because your barn is Monday through friday, doesn't mean they all are.
    Secondly, very few city drivers in my barn get any overtime. They work 40 and go home.
  17. EX396

    EX396 Well-Known Member

    I appreciate the civil discussion.

    It's quite simple. The company has taken what the City Driver gets for vacation and applied it to what the OTR/Line driver gets in the fairest way possible. You want them to take what the Line driver gets and apply that to the City Driver. ;)

    Ethically/morally why should a weeks' vacation pay be based on any more than a 40 hour work week for a regular full time employee?
  18. SwampRatt

    SwampRatt Well-Known Member

    That is interesting! I honestly (obviously) had no idea of the differences throughout the system. East/West (still) are vastly different, in many ways. I thought most all layovers were a thing of the past. I guess those wide open spaces contribute to the need. Also, I'm surprised that there is little or no OT, either. I appreciate the education.

    Obviously the case can be made for the annual percentage calculation, for road, due to the VAST variation in actual work performed. I think you also (inadvertently?) make the case that the same benefit (calculation) should apply to ALL drivers, since there is also a huge variation in the work preformed on the city side as well.

    The same "most fair" benefit should apply to all Drivers, IMHO.
  19. SwampRatt

    SwampRatt Well-Known Member


    While I'll agree with your theory on the "origin" of the different vacation calculation, I disagree that it should apply today. Up until around 1995 all road (line haul) were paid predominantly mileage, with very little hourly pay. Even that hourly pay was in essence "flat rate task pay" (30 min drop/hook etc.). Since then there has been a shift to shorter runs and significant dock work, which is paid hourly. Many "so called" road runs are nothing more than swaps, with the majority of work done at hourly rates (dock). Also, many city drivers do the same thing, dock combined with some mileage.

    As you point out (accurately) road vacation is calculated in "the fairest way possible". That in not the case for city, regardless of the predominant source of their income.

    Ethically/morally, DRIVERS should all have the same benefit. The earnings potential is significantly higher for road, that is fine, for a number of reasons. But there is still a HUGE variation in earnings (effort) from one road driver to the next. Variations that are reflected accurately in their vacation benefit. There are also huge variations from one city driver's effort (earnings) to the next, depending on location, as well as other factors. These variations are NOT reflected accurately in their vacation benefit. If the average work week was close to 40 hours, you might have a valid point. And for those who average around 40, the annual average method would reflect that as well.

    Simply stated: All Drivers are compensated under the same terms for each type of duty performed (regardless of job classification). All drivers also have the exact same benefits package... Except that one (vacation benefit). The "fairest way possible", is the same for all drivers.
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  20. AkitaDog

    AkitaDog Well-Known Member

    As an outsider it's seems to me that the ongoing union organizing at Fedex has gotten their attention and now their trying to right the wrongs.Lets say it's like closing the barn door after the horses ran off! Just my opinion.
    FILTH the Klown likes this.

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