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TForce | Crash

Accelerator said:
I have refused too haul overloaded set's and I am still here, broken or not ,if the tail was heavier than the lead ,she or he ,is at fault, case closed.
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The tail can be loaded heavier to a point and still be legal. As far as I know the tail cannot be more than 2% heavier than the lead. Federal DOT law.
 
I'm not familiar with your operation but is'nt 28 grand, even if it were your lead, a little over the top. And also if it were a through load, why would the first driver hook it that way. Not pointing fingers...just trying to learn from this unfortunate incident.
 
Daredevil said:
I'm not familiar with your operation but is'nt 28 grand, even if it were your lead, a little over the top. And also if it were a through load, why would the first driver hook it that way. Not pointing fingers...just trying to learn from this unfortunate incident.
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28,000 is definately not the norm, but if loaded properly could scale legaly with a day cab...and possibly with a sleeper but that is definately pushing it.

The only answer to your question (if it was too heavy, or hooked backwards) is driver negligence.

Either didn't look at the weights on the bills and pay sheet, failed to scale the load, possibly laziness...may have noticed,but didn't want to break down and re-hook...and possibly didn't know the ramifications of pulling a set with that big of a weight difference(if bad hook). Any number of reasons could lead to being unprofessional, but none are excusable.
 
What sticks in my mind mostly is the fact that there was a placarded trailer.

How can any driver blindly pull a visibly placarded trailer and not know it's weight or the weight of the Hazmat itself.

Granted maybe lazyness was a greater factor here and not paying attention to your paperwork could lead to, as APO put it, a tragic event.

Road conditions at that particular section of 84, literally sux, complacency about your loads, the roads, the weather, your attitude and more importantly the saftey of yourself and the general public can and will lead to mistakes, accidents and more over, tragic events.

Lets all hope for safety's sake that the company looks at this a little closer to make sure it wasn't a combination of driver and supervior error as well as an operational error.

T251
 
BusterNite said:
The tail can be loaded heavier to a point and still be legal. As far as I know the tail cannot be more than 2% heavier than the lead. Federal DOT law.
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I belive it 20% difference in weight.

I can seem to find it in the FMCS but I can find it in the UPS Master.

Article 18 sates that a 25% difference "in volume" may preceed aor follow the lead trailers volume.


http://*******************/ups_national_master_agreement.html#18.


We don't use weight at UPS and it up the the judgement of the supevisor in most cases as to the percentage of the volume. but can be changed or challeged by the driver for the sake of saftey.
 
Teamster251 said:
I belive it 20% difference in weight.

I can seem to find it in the FMCS but I can find it in the UPS Master.

Article 18 sates that a 25% difference "in volume" may preceed aor follow the lead trailers volume.


http://*******************/ups_national_master_agreement.html#18.


We don't use weight at UPS and it up the the judgement of the supevisor in most cases as to the percentage of the volume. but can be changed or challeged by the driver for the sake of saftey.
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Oops, I guess I used a prohibited link.

Far be it for me to be a open minded user of other sites so I'll use a link to a site I particully don't like, maybe that will work

National Master UPS Agreement, Articles 14-21 Go to Article 18 section 7
 
The truck, owned by Overnight Transportation,

Say what??? I thought the the name of this company was, UPS Freight. Funny how that was missed.
 
Truckdrivers seem to get in a comfort zone,the longer they are working as drivers.
They start to take things forgranted.
When we tend to take our focus off of our driving habits we are prown to open ourselves up to poor judgements.

As many have posted we should never take someone elses word for anything we are going to be responsible for in the end.

With LTL freight shippments that are moving on HAZ-Mat bills the weight in pounds must be written out with the Haz-Mat class,and number.
Also a copy of the original bill of laden that was made out by the shipper must be attatched to consignees bills.

All road drivers that make their hooks at the origin terminal are made aware of any HAZ-Mats and what the weights are for either them placarding the trailers,or checking to see if the right placards are in place.

From the original news report of this accident it is evident that these drums came from one shipper.
If it was either a live load,or the pup was dropped at the shipper it would of been the job of whoever made the pickup to see if everything was in order,with the load,paperwork,and placards.
Next the outbound supervisor should of made sure it was to be set up as the lead.
If there was too much weight,he should of had some drums removed,than secured the load,sending the ballance of drums with free astray paper work in another trailer.
Next it was the road driver from the origin terminal to make sure everything was safe to be transported,as well as the paper work to the best of his knowledge,that was asigned to the trailers he was going to take out.

It takes a team of workers to make everything go down the road the way it should go to make it to its destination in the same condition it was picked up.

A comfort zone has no place in moving any freight.
Heres the bottom line,we all need to always be focused on the job that we are being paid to do.
Always remember the job you save maybe your own.
 
Teamster251 said:
Oops, I guess I used a prohibited link.

Far be it for me to be a open minded user of other sites so I'll use a link to a site I particully don't like, maybe that will work

National Master UPS Agreement, Articles 14-21 Go to Article 18 section 7
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Not sure how the % thing works, But I have alway's thought that the DOT regulation was that The rear trailer could be no more than 2%= 2000 pounds heavier than the lead trailer. I have always gone by this rule.
 
I've always herd within 10%. I've used this and have never had a problem controlling the set. Really can't even tell a difference. I've also seen guys pull sets especially out of HRS. That are hooked by the jockeys backwards. Instead of re-hooking ah it's too much of a hassle to re-hook I'll take my chances.
 
Teamster251 said:
What sticks in my mind mostly is the fact that there was a placarded trailer.

How can any driver blindly pull a visibly placarded trailer and not know it's weight or the weight of the Hazmat itself.

Granted maybe lazyness was a greater factor here and not paying attention to your paperwork could lead to, as APO put it, a tragic event.

Road conditions at that particular section of 84, literally sux, complacency about your loads, the roads, the weather, your attitude and more importantly the saftey of yourself and the general public can and will lead to mistakes, accidents and more over, tragic events.

Lets all hope for safety's sake that the company looks at this a little closer to make sure it wasn't a combination of driver and supervior error as well as an operational error.

T251
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I hole heartedly agree with your statement, everyone should have a oldfashioned talking too for this one... But as far a learning from the mistake, well time will tell...:smilie_132:
 
Accelerator said:
"The employer will make every effort". That leaves alot, an oversize lot that is ,,,of grey area doesnt it?.
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Section 7. Trailer Configuration

The Employer will make every effort to have the heaviest loaded trailer as the lead trailer. If the percent of load in one (1) trailer exceeds the other by twenty-five percent (25%) or more, such trailer shall be the lead trailer, except when state or federal regulations require otherwise. However, if the driver feels the percentage exceeds twenty-five percent (25%) in the rear trailer or the unit does not handle properly, he/she may contact management and will be authorized to switch the unit and be paid for such time.

Well not really Accel, If you read the last of the article it does authorized driver to switch arfter contact manageemtnand driver will be paid for such time.

In most cases local feeder drivers hook there own sets anyway.
Seldom we may get a "byPass" already hooked but it was usally hooked by anther driver.
Sleeper team drivers have the sets hooked for them. If there is a problem we get paid to switch them or we get paid to watch the switcher switch them. I perfer to do it myself, but far be it from me to steal antoher's work....I'll watch..:smilie_132:

NMFA calls for heaviest trailer to be in front. Now mention of a diffference except heavier may be the kite if going less than 150 to be dropped and unitn handles okay. Again its driver descrection and may be cahnged and driver will be paid.

Aricle 16 section 6

(4) Whenever possible, the Company will hook up the heaviest trailer in front in twin-trailer operations. In those instances where it is not possible because of an intermediate drop of less than one hundred and fifty (150) miles or scaling of the drive axle, the driver after driving the unit at any point on the trip, determines, at his/her sole discretion, the unit does not handle properly, may have the Company switch the unit or authorize the driver to switch the unit and be paid for such time.
 
BusterNite said:
Not sure how the % thing works, But I have alway's thought that the DOT regulation was that The rear trailer could be no more than 2%= 2000 pounds heavier than the lead trailer. I have always gone by this rule.
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Buster, assuming 2% equals 2000# may get you in trouble.

Example if your lead is loaded with pillows and its laod weighs 600# and you tail is load with pallets of cardbaord and weighs 2600# that tail is not 2% over its 450% over.

2% of 600# is 12#.

2% is a very strict margin.

Another example. Lead weighs 18,000 and kite weighs 20,000. difference is 2,000#.
According to your assumtion thats okay but in accuality it's 10% over. Could you saftey pull this unit set up the way it is.
I would.
Again I can't find it in the FMCSA but I know it in there and it can be supersided by local law.
Generally I've alway gone by 20% factor except with thruway doubles. TWDs were heavist in front PERIOD!!!

Not trying to bust your balls Buster just trying to help you out.

T251
 
Teamster251 said:
Buster, assuming 2% equals 2000# may get you in trouble.

Example if your lead is loaded with pillows and its laod weighs 600# and you tail is load with pallets of cardbaord and weighs 2600# that tail is not 2% over its 450% over.

2% of 600# is 12#.

2% is a very strict margin.

Another example. Lead weighs 18,000 and kite weighs 20,000. difference is 2,000#.
According to your assumtion thats okay but in accuality it's 10% over. Could you saftey pull this unit set up the way it is.
I would.
Again I can't find it in the FMCSA but I know it in there and it can be supersided by local law.
Generally I've alway gone by 20% factor except with thruway doubles. TWDs were heavist in front PERIOD!!!

Not trying to bust your balls Buster just trying to help you out.

T251
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You bring up a good point, The company does not take into concideration pallets. Another problem I have noticed is the new great dane trailers we have been purchasing over the last few years are approx. 3000 lbs heavier than the older trailers. And this weight is not conciderd either. One thing for sure, You can tell when the rear trailer is controlling the complete unit and thats when you change your driving habbits, Slow and easy lane changes and slow on the corners. If needed find a safe place to switch the trailers around. And cover your butt. Let central dispatch know about the problem and get there ok. I would like to know what the federal dot guidlines are regarding this. Allthough there are so many factors its really driver experiance thats going to get you to your destination safely.
 
Also If there is a small weight difference, Under 2000 Lbs. I will put the new style (great dane) trailer in the front for my lead as it is a heavier trailer than the older trailers (empty weight)It handles much better. Also helps to get over those snow coverd hills.
 
Its a very good thing for all of us truckingboard poster to review mistakes made.
Posting our various opinions,ideas,and facts on how bad mistakes should have been avoided.
We can all be safer looking for potential human errors in our future work duties.

I want to personaly thank everyone that posted to this thread.
This shows me that we care,and are watching out for each other to get it right the first time.
 
Apostolic said:
Its a very good thing for all of us truckingboard poster to review mistakes made.
Posting our various opinions,ideas,and facts on how bad mistakes should have been avoided.
We can all be safer looking for potential human errors in our future work duties.

I want to personaly thank everyone that posted to this thread.
This shows me that we care,and are watching out for each other to get it right the first time.
Click to expand...

Your Welcome, Remember, We make the difference!
 
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