Dissolve and disperse central states pension fund now !

[jimmy g]

I'm done with you. You're a complete imbecile.

H

I'm done with you. You're a complete imbecile.

He's Docker, reregistered with a different name. So I'm putting him on ignore.

 

[nounionfool]

My question with all this is do you expect 350 million people to agree to spend 20 Billion so 400,000 can retire? That is what it comes down to if the government comes in and saves the day according to Papa Johns numbers on how short the pension fund is. That is 57 dollars from the whole population of the U.S. Just a question cause the government already baled out the banks. Are they going to bankrupt one they saved to save 400,000 non corrupt teamsters? No one wanted to bale out the banks that I knew. Sorry I can't spell bail. I see both your points

The government comes in and saves the day, thanks for my laugh for the day.Don't you think that's the right thing to do since they are the ones that ruined the day to begin with? That's not called saving the day, it's called accountability.

I appreciate you seeing both points, I do too but most of the pensioners aren't asking for a bailout, they're asking for restitution and believe it or not there is a big difference. A restitution is the restoration of something lost or stolen to its proper owner and a bailout is, like you said, the government coming in and saving the day.Since the government stuck their nose in to where it didn't belong, they should now be held accountable for their actions. You and I sure would be so why shouldn't they. The government should be investigating the root cause to see if there was any wrongdoing which they have only started doing now since the strong opposition. All those that are fighting really believe there was definitely a looting of the pension right under the governments watchful eye. A thorough investigation would just reveal those who are responsible and should be made to pay that restitution and if is revealed that the government itself was involved, so be it. But many of the people just won't acknowledge that fact because the governments money is there money. And to answer your question, do I expect 350 million people to agree to spend 20 Billion so 400,000 can retire, if it is found that the government was involved with the looting in any way, I sure do. I'm not saying I know everything but that is what I believe.

There are so many that believe that those fighting to save the pensions are asking for a bailout and you will never convince them otherwise but that couldn't be further from the truth. They just wanted to start with a thorough investigation into the matter which they had to fight for and just got and now, in my opinion, a legit investigation will show there was definitely wrongdoing and reveal just who all the culprits were.

 

[SuperCourse]

A hypothetical question. If you were currently working, age 58, 30 years in the fund, and you were offered a lump sum of $200,000 to be rolled tax free into a 401K with all future contributions also directed to the 401K, would you take it and never look back?

If you were age 35, 10 years in the fund, offered a lump sum of $20,000 to be rolled tax free into a 401K with all future contributions also directed to the 401K, would you take it and never look back?

If you were 70 years old, retired, would you accept a lump sum of $150,000 rather than risk being cut to $1200 a month?

Not looking to argue.

 

[EX396]

Yes, in 2006 they had $20 billion, $27 billion in 2007 and since lost one-third of its assets. Then in just in just 15 months during 2008 and early 2009 losses about $11.1 billion in seed capital. Pension funds are supposed to stick to low and medium risks but that amount of loss suggests some very high risks in that short of time, financial crisis or no financial crisis.

DJIA went from 13895 to 8000 in that same 15 month period.

$27B in the DJIA (not high risk by any measure) in 2007 would have been $15.5B (a loss of $11.5B)....

Elliot Blair Smiths opinion piece for MarketWatch that you cut and pasted from also stated: "Central States’ investments lost 29.81% in value during 2008 compared to the median loss for all Taft-Hartley Union plans of 20.46%; and a median loss of 26.37% at all Taft-Hartley plans with assets greater than $2 billion, according to data prepared for MarketWatch by Los Angeles-based Wilshire Associates."

That's a 3.44% delta between other large Taft-Hartley plans and the CSPF. So, if the CSPF was the median performing fund during that time you would have $3.31 going out for every $1 coming in.

You can blame the performance for a SMALL percentage of the current issue but the real issue is the abhorrent rate at which contributions are being made vs. the benefits being paid. The Teamsters can't triple that membership tomorrow, nor are they going to triple their assets in the market anytime soon, the only option is cut current benefits significantly or mash the accelerator as they head toward the cliff.

 

[yrc-atm]

A hypothetical question. If you were currently working, age 58, 30 years in the fund, and you were offered a lump sum of $200,000 to be rolled tax free into a 401K with all future contributions also directed to the 401K, would you take it and never look back?

If you were age 35, 10 years in the fund, offered a lump sum of $20,000 to be rolled tax free into a 401K with all future contributions also directed to the 401K, would you take it and never look back?

If you were 70 years old, retired, would you accept a lump sum of $150,000 rather than risk being cut to $1200 a month?

Not looking to argue.

Yep

 

[nounionfool]

Again, you have no answer to how to fix the problem. How do YOU propose to fix it. You have a big mouth, lets see if you have any brains.

After all I said in my post, this is all you have to say, you don't have much fight in you, do you? How do I propose to fix it, let's see, oh, that's right, how about everyone waiting to see what the investigation reveals first. See, unlike you, I don't try to jump the gun, the push was to start an investigation and now the best route would be to wait and just see what that reveals first. I know that you don't agree with that because you just wanted to accept the cuts and wasn't even concerned with any rhyme or reason why because you didn't care once the fear took hold. Your only question was how much.

As for my mouth being big, I assure you that's it's in relative proportion of the face.

 

[yrc-atm]

DJIA went from 13895 to 8000 in that same 15 month period.

$27B in the DJIA (not high risk by any measure) in 2007 would have been $15.5B (a loss of $11.5B)....

Elliot Blair Smiths opinion piece for MarketWatch that you cut and pasted from also stated: "Central States’ investments lost 29.81% in value during 2008 compared to the median loss for all Taft-Hartley Union plans of 20.46%; and a median loss of 26.37% at all Taft-Hartley plans with assets greater than $2 billion, according to data prepared for MarketWatch by Los Angeles-based Wilshire Associates."

That's a 3.44% delta between other large Taft-Hartley plans and the CSPF. So, if the CSPF was the median performing fund during that time you would have $3.31 going out for every $1 coming in.

You can blame the performance for a SMALL percentage of the current issue but the real issue is the abhorrent rate at which contributions are being made vs. the benefits being paid. The Teamsters can't triple that membership tomorrow, nor are they going to triple their assets in the market anytime soon, the only option is cut current benefits significantly or mash the accelerator as they head toward the cliff.

And thats what the retirees want. Keep the pedal down until the the car goes off the cliff or runs out of gas. And to hell with those of us who have been giving gas money but dont have a ride.

 

[yrc-atm]

After all I said in my post, this is all you have to say, you don't have much fight in you, do you? How do I propose to fix it, let's see, oh, that's right, how about everyone waiting to see what the investigation reveals first. See, unlike you, I don't try to jump the gun, the push was to start an investigation and now the best route would be to wait and just see what that reveals first. I know that you don't agree with that because you just wanted to accept the cuts and wasn't even concerned with any rhyme or reason why because you didn't care once the fear took hold. Your only question was how much.

As for my mouth being big, I assure you that's it's in relative proportion of the face.

Its too late for investigations. That should have been done 10 years ago. The fund is drying up and fast. Again you have NO plan. You want to screw those of us still paying into this pit.

 

[EX396]

A hypothetical question. If you were currently working, age 58, 30 years in the fund, and you were offered a lump sum of $200,000 to be rolled tax free into a 401K with all future contributions also directed to the 401K, would you take it and never look back?

If you were age 35, 10 years in the fund, offered a lump sum of $20,000 to be rolled tax free into a 401K with all future contributions also directed to the 401K, would you take it and never look back?

If you were 70 years old, retired, would you accept a lump sum of $150,000 rather than risk being cut to $1200 a month?

Given the current state of CSPF: Yes, Yes and depends on my hypothetical health at age 70. ;)

$200K for the 58 year old isn't enough to cover what they hoped their pension would have covered, but certainly more than they'll likely get otherwise.

The 35yo with 10years is getting a kick in the nuts, but better than getting them chopped off.

T

 

[SAC75]

The government comes in and saves the day, thanks for my laugh for the day.Don't you think that's the right thing to do since they are the ones that ruined the day to begin with? That's not called saving the day, it's called accountability.

I appreciate you seeing both points, I do too but most of the pensioners aren't asking for a bailout, they're asking for restitution and believe it or not there is a big difference. A restitution is the restoration of something lost or stolen to its proper owner and a bailout is, like you said, the government coming in and saving the day.Since the government stuck their nose in to where it didn't belong, they should now be held accountable for their actions. You and I sure would be so why shouldn't they. The government should be investigating the root cause to see if there was any wrongdoing which they have only started doing now since the strong opposition. All those that are fighting really believe there was definitely a looting of the pension right under the governments watchful eye. A thorough investigation would just reveal those who are responsible and should be made to pay that restitution and if is revealed that the government itself was involved, so be it. But many of the people just won't acknowledge that fact because the governments money is there money. And to answer your question, do I expect 350 million people to agree to spend 20 Billion so 400,000 can retire, if it is found that the government was involved with the looting in any way, I sure do. I'm not saying I know everything but that is what I believe.

There are so many that believe that those fighting to save the pensions are asking for a bailout and you will never convince them otherwise but that couldn't be further from the truth. They just wanted to start with a thorough investigation into the matter which they had to fight for and just got and now, in my opinion, a legit investigation will show there was definitely wrongdoing and reveal just who all the culprits were.

If the government doesn't do anything then who is saving the day? No intervention means certain bankruptcy. Im not saying they didn't cause this. I've been in this pension fund sence 2001. Its been in the danger zone the whole time I've been working in LTL. So why hasn't a peep been said about this until now by our union? Central States sends out a statement every year explaining the dire financial situation, correct? I got one anyway. Now explain how you are going to fix this? Where the money comes from. Exactly who it comes from. I remember all the promises Tyson Johnson and Hoffa saying the fund was fine. What a joke.

 

[nounionfool]

DJIA went from 13895 to 8000 in that same 15 month period.

$27B in the DJIA (not high risk by any measure) in 2007 would have been $15.5B (a loss of $11.5B)....

Elliot Blair Smiths opinion piece for MarketWatch that you cut and pasted from also stated: "Central States’ investments lost 29.81% in value during 2008 compared to the median loss for all Taft-Hartley Union plans of 20.46%; and a median loss of 26.37% at all Taft-Hartley plans with assets greater than $2 billion, according to data prepared for MarketWatch by Los Angeles-based Wilshire Associates."

That's a 3.44% delta between other large Taft-Hartley plans and the CSPF. So, if the CSPF was the median performing fund during that time you would have $3.31 going out for every $1 coming in.

You can blame the performance for a SMALL percentage of the current issue but the real issue is the abhorrent rate at which contributions are being made vs. the benefits being paid. The Teamsters can't triple that membership tomorrow, nor are they going to triple their assets in the market anytime soon, the only option is cut current benefits significantly or mash the accelerator as they head toward the cliff.

Are you actually trying to impress me with all this information that you found on the internet, it says a whole lot about nothing? I would start saving now if I were you because you might just start having to pay once that investigation is done. Tell me, which Teamster fund are you in again?

 

[yrc-atm]

If the government doesn't do anything then who is saving the day? No intervention means certain bankruptcy. Im not saying they didn't cause this. I've been in this pension fund sence 2001. Its been in the danger zone the whole time I've been working in LTL. So why hasn't a peep been said about this until now by our union? Central States sends out a statement every year explaining the dire financial situation, correct? I got one anyway. Now explain how you are going to fix this? Where the money comes from. Exactly who it comes from.

They dont have an answer. They just want to "investigate" to buy more time for them to drain the fund. They dont give a :: about whats left for us because they will be in a pine box 6 feet down, not their problem.

 

[EX396]

Are you actually trying to impress me with all this information that you found on the internet, it says a whole lot about nothing?

If you think it says a whole lot about nothing, maybe I should dumb it down for you.

I don't remember what the DJIA was 3 months ago, so a little Googling helps me out, opposed to pulling numbers out of my ass.

You parrot the excuse that it was high risk investments and high admin fees that caused the failure. Fact is everybodys funds took a pretty big hit during that timeframe. Yours wasn't that much worse and you refuse to look at the real problem because it is too easy/convenient to just blame some greedy fund managers.

I would start saving now if I were you because you might just start having to pay once that investigation is done. Tell me, which Teamster fund are you in again?

Smart enough to escape before I was vested. See, I am No Union Fool. :)

 

[nounionfool]

Its too late for investigations. That should have been done 10 years ago. The fund is drying up and fast. Again you have NO plan. You want to screw those of us still paying into this pit.

Just take the time and actually listen to yourself here, its too late for investigations. I have news for you, it's never too late for investigations when someone is out to screw you. Here you are crying about those measly dimes that you have to pay when you don't hear a peep out of many that are still paying the full rate in. Tell me, when are you going to start crying about the union dues that you have to pay too?

 

[nounionfool]

[QUOTE="EX396, post: 1059294, member: 5536"
Smart enough to escape before I was vested. See, I am No Union Fool. :)[/QUOTE]

You may call that smart but I call that a pretty dumb move of a quitter.

 

[yrc-atm]

Just take the time and actually listen to yourself here, its too late for investigations. I have news for you, it's never too late for investigations when someone is out to screw you. Here you are crying about those measly dimes that you have to pay when you don't hear a peep out of many that are still paying the full rate in. Tell me, when are you going to start crying about the union dues that you have to pay too?

I have almost 20 years paid at full rate pal. And I wont get :: from that because you will drain the fund to zero before I can get a check. We had some of you crybaby retirees come to our lunchroom looking for signatures and money for your "investigation" they were tossed out as soon as it was obvious who they were looking out for, THEMSELVES. well guess what, I need to look out for myself then too, give me back my 20 years of full rate payments and you retired meesters can run the fund into the ground. Oh and I have several relatives collecting that were slated to be cut in half and they agree with me. There is no fight to fight. The money is gone and NOBODY is going to put it back. You live in a fantasy world and its going to harm my retirement. But that is the mentality of your generation. You completely ****ed mine.

 

[nounionfool]

If you think it says a whole lot about nothing, maybe I should dumb it down for you.

I don't remember what the DJIA was 3 months ago, so a little Googling helps me out, opposed to pulling numbers out of my ass.

You parrot the excuse that it was high risk investments and high admin fees that caused the failure. Fact is everybodys funds took a pretty big hit during that timeframe. Yours wasn't that much worse and you refuse to look at the real problem because it is too easy/convenient to just blame some greedy fund managers.

Here's the real picture, your trying to get the participants of the pension to accept the pay cuts of a fund that you are not even part of because you are defending the corrupt banking institutions, wall street thieves and the federal mafia.

 

[nounionfool]

I have almost 20 years paid at full rate pal. And I wont get :::: from that because you will drain the fund to zero before I can get a check. We had some of you crybaby retirees come to our lunchroom looking for signatures and money for your "investigation" they were tossed out as soon as it was obvious who they were looking out for, THEMSELVES. well guess what, I need to look out for myself then too, give me back my 20 years of full rate payments and you retired meesters can run the fund into the ground. Oh and I have several relatives collecting that were slated to be cut in half and they agree with me. There is no fight to fight. The money is gone and NOBODY is going to put it back. You live in a fantasy world and its going to harm my retirement. But that is the mentality of your generation. You completely ****ed mine.

First, I'm not your pal, not even an acquaintance for that matter. Second, I'm not even in the Central States Pension Fund but I am a Teamster that's fighting with my Brothers and Sisters for what they have earned and deserve so I won't be draining the fund dry before you get a check. Which by the way with that statement you made just proves what you are all about, which is yourself. You could care less about your Brothers and Sisters so don't go crying to me about that. You might just as well get that out of you thick head about getting back that 20 years of full rate payments because that will never happen, but then again, you're not even smart enough to realize that.

"There is no fight to fight", now there's a good one. You know what they say about those that go around stating that phrase, don't you. They say those are the comments of quitters and cowards. It doesn't mention nothing about being selfish though.

And all of this crying and whining over the measly dimes that you are paying in. Maybe that's why you think the fund will be dry when you go to collect, because you know that you're not paying your fair share in. That's something you have to live with, not me.

 

[EX396]

Here's the real picture, your trying to get the participants of the pension to accept the pay cuts of a fund that you are not even part of because you are defending the corrupt banking institutions, wall street thieves and the federal mafia.

No. I am trying to have a reasonable dialogue about a workable solution. I am also attempting to show you the real reason(s) your fund is in trouble.

The fact that I'm not part of the fund allows me to see the problem without bias.

 

[nounionfool]

If the government doesn't do anything then who is saving the day? No intervention means certain bankruptcy. Im not saying they didn't cause this. I've been in this pension fund sence 2001. Its been in the danger zone the whole time I've been working in LTL. So why hasn't a peep been said about this until now by our union? Central States sends out a statement every year explaining the dire financial situation, correct? I got one anyway. Now explain how you are going to fix this? Where the money comes from. Exactly who it comes from. I remember all the promises Tyson Johnson and Hoffa saying the fund was fine. What a joke.

You are right, Hoffa Jr and Tyson are a joke. I believe they secretly wanted everyone to accept the cuts and that's why you didn't hear a peep out of many locals until all the momentum of the fight started getting noticed by many politicians. Then and only then did they say a word or two. But guess what, they sure are bragging about how they defeated the cuts now. That just goes to show you how dumb and naïve they think the members are. You have to remember that the Hoffa Jr administration doesn't want an investigation either, after all, they are the ones responsible for letting UPS out of the fund, YRC's zero then limited contributions and even what ABF was contractually required to pay in for three years.

You asked me to explain how I'm going to fix this, where the money comes from and exactly who it comes from. I can't do that, I'm just one ordinary man and like all the others in the fight, I know deep down there was a pension heist which a legit investigation would show and the culprits be held responsible and the restitution be made. First, let's see what the investigation reveals and what measures are taken by the many politicians that now stand behind the retirees, then take it from there.