Dissolve and disperse central states pension fund now !

[papajohn]

That's why alot of you that are in the CSPF don't even get close to deciding what to do with the funds.Id rather merge all the Teamster pension funds and then or before the government needs to make the PBGC good again by diverting funds to that account.

Bigtruk that is being talked about right now. I am not sure how that will work yet, but if it happens I am not sure we will have a vote in it.

 

[Banned for Life]

DEAR I'M FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT TEAMSTER RETIREE. HOW MANY MORE TEAMSTER COMPANIES DO YOU WANT TO BANKRUPT SO YOU CAN GET WHAT YOU DESERVE.

 

[nounionfool]

I take a little break from TB because there are a few bad apples that made it less than enjoyable and a waste of time.....I come back here to see what kind of hot topics are being discussed, only to be reminded why I took a self imposed break the first and second time. Had a little time in the timeout corner in between there as well.

My credentials weren't there to impress. They were there to give a little insight. I don't have to take your little quiz to prove worthiness. Either you are capable of reasonable debate or you are not. It shouldn't matter who you are debating.

Couldn't hold a job? Couldn't decide what I wanted in life? You are foolish man making such assumptions.

Let me explain it to you slowly this time. I answered you before. S U R E, as in Y E S. Now, you should be entitled to $35.75/mo for each year of service. That's how I think the "government" should take responsibility.

I happen to know a few, hard-working, honorable Teamsters who are quite capable of reasonable dialogue with me. I am sure they would appreciate you considering them something other than a "true blooded Teamster member". There's a saying about spoiled apples and a cart. Maybe somebody could look that up and splain it to you.

Yes, your credentials were there to impress because I could care less about your credentials. After all, who am I anyway to even ask for credentials. Maybe those honorable Teamsters who are quite capable of reasonable dialogue with you may require them but they wouldn't matter to any ordinary Teamster because they are smart enough to know that they don't mean a thing. It's common knowledge that there are many who hold a high school diploma but yet can't read and write so what good are credentials.

You say the credentials were posted to give insight, that's managements way of thinking. My way of thinking to get insight was asking you those questions, and boy, that revealed a good deal of insight. They proved to me that you are deceitful, will just give answers that have nothing to do with the question that was asked when you don't want to answer honestly and will try and bluff your way with an answer when you don't know it. How's that for insight? I don't think the words I don't know will ever come out of your mouth. So in my opinion you are incapable of having a reasonable dialogue. And you are right, it doesn't matter who I'm debating. It's just that I will have a reasonable dialogue with ones that I find reasonable but I will have a whole different dialogue with those I don't. You will find out that I am quite versatile when it comes to debating, but then again you already know that, don't you? That's why you wanted a reasonable dialogue. That kind of manipulative behavior may work with those honorable Teamsters that you mentioned but it won't work with me. I won't allow myself to be one of those spoiled apples that you go around pushing in a cart.

You may think that I make foolish assumptions but I don't think so I will just continue making them. When I see a man wearing both, a belt and suspenders, I assume he has trust issues. I may be right or I may be wrong but that is what I think.

Now you know where I stand with you so if you want to continue with this dialogue, by all means, let's continue to do so. But it sure won't be reasonable because that would be an impossibility with you.

 

[SuperCourse]

Who would agree to that? Why would western states pension fund want to merge with the failing funds? Good luck with that one.

Stable funds would never willingly merge with troubled funds, it would be a blatant fiduciary breach, and they can't be forced to, each fund is a seperate entity, it won't happen.

 

[jimmy g]

Stable funds would never willingly merge with troubled funds, it would be a blatant fiduciary breach, and they can't be forced to, each fund is a seperate entity, it won't happen.

It's how Central States became the Central South and Southeastern Fund. Congress could force a merger. Its unlikely- but more likely than a bailout.

 

[yrc-atm]

Now is that anyway to treat a union Brother?

That is what you are doing in your "fight". Screwing the members who are still paying in and will get nothing in the end. That doesnt make you a union brother, it makes you a greedy meester. Thinking only about yourself

 

[yrc-atm]

Stable funds would never willingly merge with troubled funds, it would be a blatant fiduciary breach, and they can't be forced to, each fund is a seperate entity, it won't happen.

The chance of a merge of funds is just a hair above zero which is 10x more likely than a bailout/restitution.

 

[nounionfool]

Stable funds would never willingly merge with troubled funds, it would be a blatant fiduciary breach, and they can't be forced to, each fund is a seperate entity, it won't happen.

In this day and age, I'm not so sure that the stable funds would never willingly merge with troubled funds. There was some reason that the PBGC proposed the new rule to facilitate mergers of multiemployer pension plans that they published in the Federal Register on Monday, June 6th, 2016.

Section 121 of MPRA amends the existing rules under section 4231 of ERISA by adding a new section 4231(e), which clarifies PBGC's authority to facilitate the merger of two or more multiemployer plans if certain statutory requirements are met. For purposes of section 4231(e), “facilitation” may include training, technical assistance, mediation, communication with stakeholders, and support with related requests to other government agencies. In addition, subject to the requirements of section 4231(e)(2), PBGC may provide financial assistance (within the meaning of section 4261 of ERISA) to facilitate a merger it determines is necessary to enable one or more of the plans involved to avoid or postpone insolvency.
https://www.federalregister.gov/art...nd-transfers-between-multiemployer-plans#h-15

I, like you don't think that they can mandate a stable fund merge with a troubled fund without passing a bill but during the last decade I sure learned that they can force people to accept very unfavorable contracts so why wouldn't they be able to do it with the pension fund as well. If you ask anyone from YRC, ABF and UPS Freight that voted against those contracts, I think they will tell you those contracts were forced down their throats by those that were willing to vote for those unfavorable contracts because they felt they had no other reasonable choice. Believe me, the government and IBT nave become very good at forcing people into willingly accept things they wouldn't ordinarily accept.

 

[nounionfool]

It's how Central States became the Central South and Southeastern Fund. Congress could force a merger. Its unlikely- but more likely than a bailout.

As of this moment, can Congress force a merger? And if they can, will you show me where you got the information because I have been trying to find that answer for sometime now and never could.

 

[SuperCourse]

Did Central States ever have 25 and out?

 

[yrc-atm]

Did Central States ever have 25 and out?

Yes. This is another factor that has helped kill this fund. 25 and out was a terrible and destructive idea.

 

[nounionfool]

That is what you are doing in your "fight". Screwing the members who are still paying in and will get nothing in the end. That doesnt make you a union brother, it makes you a greedy meester. Thinking only about yourself

What is it with you, I thought you were done with me? Just how are you supposed to debate when you can't even make up your own mind? That is unless you just come here to blow off some steam. In that case, all you are doing is making a total fool of yourself. So by all means, carry on.

And one other thing, you and I have a whole different meaning of " screwing the members". In my opinion you are screwing the members by allowing yourself to succumb to fear and too weak to fight to keep what others before you sacrificed so much just to earn. The fear in you has taken over so much that you don't even realize that those fighting are doing so to protect everyone's pension, including yours. And here you are playing right into the hands of those out to destroy your financial future and thinking that your fellow Brothers and Sisters that are doing the fighting are the enemies, just how pitiful are you?

 

[SuperCourse]

Yes. This is another factor that has helped kill this fund. 25 and out was a terrible and destructive idea.

So someone that started in their early 20's got to retire in their mid 40's?

 

[yrc-atm]

What is it with you, I thought you were done with me? Just how are you supposed to debate when you can't even make up your own mind? That is unless you just come here to blow off some steam. In that case, all you are doing is making a total fool of yourself. So by all means, carry on.

And one other thing, you and I have a whole different meaning of " screwing the members". In my opinion you are screwing the members by allowing yourself to succumb to fear and too weak to fight to keep what others before you sacrificed so much just to earn. The fear in you has taken over so much that you don't even realize that those fighting are doing so to protect everyone's pension, including yours. And here you are playing right into the hands of those out to destroy your financial future and thinking that your fellow Brothers and Sisters that are doing the fighting are the enemies, just how pitiful are you?

I live in reality. If you look at the title of this thread, it asks if you would want to dissolve the fund before the fund goes belly up. That is the question being asked. The reality is this, and you are just too ignorant to see it, CSPF is going to go broke. Your pension WILL be cut. Maybe 50% now and 100% in 15 years, or 100% in 7-10 years. But it WILL BE CUT. That is reality. My reality is because of my age either way I will not collect a check from CSPF. It will be nothing more than a memory when I retire. That is not fear, that is sound facts. There will be no bailout. No restitution. No outside money coming in to save it. THIS IS A REALITY YOU ARE TOO IGNORANT TO ACCEPT. You are being played by politicians in a very tumultuous election year. After November you will be kicked to the curb and forgotten. So to answer the question that is this thread, I want the fund to dissolve and disperse now while there is still money left to disperse.

 

[yrc-atm]

So someone that started in their early 20's got to retire in their mid 40's?

Yes at 2500 per month. So someone who at the top rate contributed about $102,000 and lived to 85 would collect $1.2 million. Geez wonder why its broke.

 

[nounionfool]

I live in reality. If you look at the title of this thread, it asks if you would want to dissolve the fund before the fund goes belly up. That is the question being asked. The reality is this, and you are just too ignorant to see it, CSPF is going to go broke. Your pension WILL be cut. Maybe 50% now and 100% in 15 years, or 100% in 7-10 years. But it WILL BE CUT. That is reality. My reality is because of my age either way I will not collect a check from CSPF. It will be nothing more than a memory when I retire. That is not fear, that is sound facts. There will be no bailout. No restitution. No outside money coming in to save it. THIS IS A REALITY YOU ARE TOO IGNORANT TO ACCEPT. You are being played by politicians in a very tumultuous election year. After November you will be kicked to the curb and forgotten. So to answer the question that is this thread, I want the fund to dissolve and disperse now while there is still money left to disperse.

I hate to tell you this but your reality is that of fear, ignorance and lacking common sense. I did look at the title of this thread and once again, your ignorance comes shining through. It does not ask, it demands and in your reality that may be the same but not in mine. If you had any common sense you would realize that the government could never allow the fund to dissolve or go belly up because their own mandated insurer would never be able to deliver what was promised and that would be a catastrophe of mass proportions as far as the government is concerned.

If you would of been paying attention, you would also know that I'm not in the CSPF but, as usual, you just start flying off the handle and talk about things you know nothing about.

That's the funny thing about fear, it dictates the way you think but your conscience has a way of convincing yourself otherwise but deep down in the subconscious it's a completely different story. Trust me, when the government threatens to take something away, fear runs rapid in the minds of the weak and scared and even though you will never admit it, you're the perfect example of that.

And you may be right, if there isn't a legit investigation, the culprits may never be brought to justice and restitution never made but atleast the members fighting did everything they could to try and make that happen. But the one thing that you can count on is that the fund will never be dissolved or go belly up. You can bet that there will be actions to make the fund viable again and in my opinion since many of those working like yourself who refuse to join the fight and even hinder those that are will not find it very favorable on your part. You just may find yourself at the short end of the stick. If you are unwilling to fight to keep what you have earned, you deserve everything you get. And don't expect any sympathy from the retirees then because the first thing they will say is just what were you doing when we were fighting tooth and nail to protect everyone's pension? We not only had to fight the government and the funds administrator but people like yourself too.Then I can guarantee you won't like the second and third things they say. But you will only have yourself to blame.

Instead of answering the question of you wanting to dissolve the fund, maybe you should honestly try answering if you think you really deserve a full pension? That answer will surprise you because the way I see it, you accepted to not pay anything at all into the fund for two years, then just a measly 25% thereafter without even considering how that could effect your financial future and the other's financial future you left hanging in the balance that are still paying the full rate. Then if that wasn't insulting enough to the others you left hanging in the balance that are still paying the full rate, here you are fighting the ones that are fighting to keep the full pensions that were earned for everyone, including yourself. Why is that, you say, because fear dictates that you rollover and accept the cuts.Tell me, what do you think would happen if you didn't pay into your home insurance for a couple of years and then only payed in a quarter of your original premiums after that when you started paying again and your house caught on fire? Maybe that's why you are just dying to have the fund dissolved and your money returned or wanting to rollover and accept the cuts because of all your actions taken by you on this issue, you, yourself know that you don't deserve a full pension. But yet you keep crying and whining as loud as ever.

 

[yrc-atm]

I hate to tell you this but your reality is that of fear, ignorance and lacking common sense. I did look at the title of this thread and once again, your ignorance comes shining through. It does not ask, it demands and in your reality that may be the same but not in mine. If you had any common sense you would realize that the government could never allow the fund to dissolve or go belly up because their own mandated insurer would never be able to deliver what was promised and that would be a catastrophe of mass proportions as far as the government is concerned.

If you would of been paying attention, you would also know that I'm not in the CSPF but, as usual, you just start flying off the handle and talk about things you know nothing about.

That's the funny thing about fear, it dictates the way you think but your conscience has a way of convincing yourself otherwise but deep down in the subconscious it's a completely different story. Trust me, when the government threatens to take something away, fear runs rapid in the minds of the weak and scared and even though you will never admit it, you're the perfect example of that.

And you may be right, if there isn't a legit investigation, the culprits may never be brought to justice and restitution never made but atleast the members fighting did everything they could to try and make that happen. But the one thing that you can count on is that the fund will never be dissolved or go belly up. You can bet that there will be actions to make the fund viable again and in my opinion since many of those working like yourself who refuse to join the fight and even hinder those that are will not find it very favorable on your part. You just may find yourself at the short end of the stick. If you are unwilling to fight to keep what you have earned, you deserve everything you get. And don't expect any sympathy from the retirees then because the first thing they will say is just what were you doing when we were fighting tooth and nail to protect everyone's pension? We not only had to fight the government and the funds administrator but people like yourself too.Then I can guarantee you won't like the second and third things they say. But you will only have yourself to blame.

Instead of answering the question of you wanting to dissolve the fund, maybe you should honestly try answering if you think you really deserve a full pension? That answer will surprise you because the way I see it, you accepted to not pay anything at all into the fund for two years, then just a measly 25% thereafter without even considering how that could effect your financial future and the other's financial future you left hanging in the balance that are still paying the full rate. Then if that wasn't insulting enough to the others you left hanging in the balance that are still paying the full rate, here you are fighting the ones that are fighting to keep the full pensions that were earned for everyone, including yourself. Why is that, you say, because fear dictates that you rollover and accept the cuts.Tell me, what do you think would happen if you didn't pay into your home insurance for a couple of years and then only payed in a quarter of your original premiums after that when you started paying again and your house caught on fire? Maybe that's why you are just dying to have the fund dissolved and your money returned or wanting to rollover and accept the cuts because of all your actions taken by you on this issue, you, yourself know that you don't deserve a full pension. But yet you keep crying and whining as loud as ever.

Once again ******* I did not agree to 25% payments. I voted no on all the mou's. Look at the mou results. I'm in Local 200 who overwhelming voted it down. Im not controlled by fear, I see facts as they are. As for the retirees having something to say to me, bring them on. Your profile says you are in Louisville. You admitted you voted for the concessions at ABF which was a fear vote. Looks like you were afraid of Judy. An ABF teamster in Louisville? That makes you part of CSPF. Continue to lie to yourself moron. And continue to be used by politicians looking for that vote in November. You are self serving and live in a complete fantasy world. You cant refute pure basic Math backed by facts and common sense, you are ignorant to all 3.

 

[nounionfool]

Once again I did not agree to 25% payments. I voted no on all the mou's. Look at the mou results. I'm in Local 200 who overwhelming voted it down. Im not controlled by fear, I see facts as they are. As for the retirees having something to say to me, bring them on. Your profile says you are in Louisville. You admitted you voted for the concessions at ABF which was a fear vote. Looks like you were afraid of Judy. An ABF teamster in Louisville? That makes you part of CSPF. Continue to lie to yourself moron. And continue to be used by politicians looking for that vote in November. You are self serving and live in a complete fantasy world. You cant refute pure basic Math backed by facts and common sense, you are ignorant to all 3.

And once again, I think you did vote for the agreement because a zebra can never change it's stripes. Yes, you are controlled by fear or you wouldn't let others threaten to take something away that you have earned and deserve without a fight. You wouldn't recognize a fact if you saw it, the only facts you see is what those in authority tell you. You say--- "As for the retirees having something to say to me, bring them on", here comes the tough man routine now which only happens one reaches the point of total frustration because of their own feelings of inadequacy and insecurity.

Again, you can't comprehend what you read, I couldn't of ever admitted to voting for the concessionary contract at ABF because I never voted yes for a contract in my life. Yes, I'm one of those people! And I won't even try to convince people of that either, especially someone like you. I don't care if anyone believes me or not because I'm not insecure in my person such as yourself. I said ABF Teamsters accepted the contract which they did and I am an ABF Teamster so I have to live with that. Maybe that's why I have so much fun dealing with those just filled with fear such as yourself. Maybe it makes me feel better about having that contract shoved down my throat by those like you.

I said I wasn't part of CSPF, and once again, I don't care if you believe me or not. My stand wouldn't change even if I was in CSPF. The fight is for what all Teamsters have earned and deserve no matter which plan you're in. But you would never understand that because if they are trying to screw other Brothers and Sisters, that would be Ok with you as long as you, personally weren't affected. That's not what a Teamster is all about and you aren't fit to shine a real Teamster's shoes. You are so ignorant and naïve that you don't even realize that's just the beginning if they get CSPF to accept the cuts, then they start getting the other Teamster pension funds, then the 401k's and so on. I just hope you soon grow up because right now in my opinion you are nothing but a boy living in a man's world.

 

[yrc-atm]

And once again, I think you did vote for the agreement because a zebra can never change it's stripes. Yes, you are controlled by fear or you wouldn't let others threaten to take something away that you have earned and deserve without a fight. You wouldn't recognize a fact if you saw it, the only facts you see is what those in authority tell you. You say--- "As for the retirees having something to say to me, bring them on", here comes the tough man routine now which only happens one reaches the point of total frustration because of their own feelings of inadequacy and insecurity.

Again, you can't comprehend what you read, I couldn't of ever admitted to voting for the concessionary contract at ABF because I never voted yes for a contract in my life. Yes, I'm one of those people! And I won't even try to convince people of that either, especially someone like you. I don't care if anyone believes me or not because I'm not insecure in my person such as yourself. I said ABF Teamsters accepted the contract which they did and I am an ABF Teamster so I have to live with that. Maybe that's why I have so much fun dealing with those just filled with fear such as yourself. Maybe it makes me feel better about having that contract shoved down my throat by those like you.

I said I wasn't part of CSPF, and once again, I don't care if you believe me or not. My stand wouldn't change even if I was in CSPF. The fight is for what all Teamsters have earned and deserve no matter which plan you're in. But you would never understand that because if they are trying to screw other Brothers and Sisters, that would be Ok with you as long as you, personally weren't affected. That's not what a Teamster is all about and you aren't fit to shine a real Teamster's shoes. You are so ignorant and naïve that you don't even realize that's just the beginning if they get CSPF to accept the cuts, then they start getting the other Teamster pension funds, then the 401k's and so on. I just hope you soon grow up because right now in my opinion you are nothing but a boy living in a man's world.

I dont believe one word that you say. Change your name to Judy's fool. You voted right into her hands. As for me being a Teamster, I was walking picket lines before I was able to walk. Your opinion of me is of zero concern to me. You have proven to be one of the most ignorant posters on this site. You have no grasp of reality, facts, or common sense. And you are a politician's bitch until the second week in November. Then you will just go back to being Judy's.

 

[nounionfool]

I dont believe one word that you say. Change your name to Judy's fool. You voted right into her hands. As for me being a Teamster, I was walking picket lines before I was able to walk. Your opinion of me is of zero concern to me. You have proven to be one of the most ignorant posters on this site. You have no grasp of reality, facts, or common sense. And you are a politician's bitch until the second week in November. Then you will just go back to being Judy's.

If you were walking picket lines, you would of had to be forced to do so and from what I have observed from your posts, I bet that were were kicking and screaming all the way. lol

I would of loved to have been around to see you being forced to walk that picket line, heck, I would of even splurged to buy you a whole box of tissues for that pleasure.

If my opinion of you was of zero concern to you, you wouldn't be so upset and keep trying to convince me otherwise.

Tell me, do I get a trophy or some kind of award for being one of the most ignorant posters on this site. If not, I could care less.