ABF | Earnings up, tonnage down...

[Muler]

I'm not that stupid.....I know damn well YRCs measly contibution will not substane the Funds........Nor will ABFs even at full rate. Do you care to admit that, or ignore my point. It may be more fun to continuely rub our nose in it but solves nothing. We are in the same boat.

You call it rubbing your noses in it but I see it as yrc and the IBT are the people responsible for rubbing your noses in it. I post the numbers and the facts and some don't like it. I have posted many numbers and not so good post about some of the things ABF has done. You did not once post that I was rubbing the noses of ABF people during our vote when I was posting and debating them on that matter.
You Agree that yrc is paying around $7,000,000.00 a month. They might be but not all that is going into the pension funds. Much of it is going into 401K's and that DOES NOT AID OR PENSION FUNDS! So that figure is not correct.And yes we are a big reason the funds are still running. BUT THAT WAS THE CONTRACT WE AGREED TO! To bad I hit a nerve but I did not do this to you or the yrc Teamsters yrc and the IBT did. YOUR STANDING FIRM BROTHER ALWAYS!

 

[Muler]

I would like to add one other point.....I see instead if paying my pension you have at least changed it too paying a higher share. I concur. Baring any changes in the law my pension will stay the same until such time as the fund goes into bankruptcy. ABF not paying full rate will certainly hasten that as would "no" contributions from YRC or any of the other contributers.

No make no mistake about it we are paying your pension. If you factor the administrative cost and the shear number of yrc retirees I.m afraid 7 million a month would not cover their cost. Do you agree? YOUR JUST STATING THE FACTS BROTHER ALWAYS!

 

[Muler]

Muler, I know it's a technicality but no one is paying in any more right now because of YRCW companies failure to make FULL payments. What will the future hold? I don't know, but if you've got a crystal ball check Friday's lotto numbers and PM them to me.

I beg to differ sir. We the ABF Teamsters can't retire until age 57 due to the loss of contributions from yrc. So I along with hundreds of ABF Teamsters have been made to pay with our most precious of assets OUR TIME! We only have so much and everyday we can't retire is another day closer to our graves. Do you have any idea how many Teamsters from yrc and ABF will never live to see retirement because of yrc's inability to live up to their responsibilities?
No al many have and will suffer because of what zollars and the IBT allowed to happen at yrc. YOUR BROTHER ALWAYS!

 

[Boilerpeddle]

i beg to differ sir. We the abf teamsters can't retire until age 57 due to the loss of contributions from yrc. So i along with hundreds of abf teamsters have been made to pay with our most precious of assets our time! We only have so much and everyday we can't retire is another day closer to our graves. Do you have any idea how many teamsters from yrc and abf will never live to see retirement because of yrc's inability to live up to their responsibilities?
No al many have and will suffer because of what zollars and the ibt allowed to happen at yrc. Your brother always!

aaaamen!!!
XXand out was brought about because this is a hard life and folks want to retire before they are used up.
Now that wont happen for a lot of workers. I see more going out on disability all the time.

 

[wolf]

No make no mistake about it we are paying your pension. If you factor the administrative cost and the shear number of yrc retirees I.m afraid 7 million a month would not cover their cost. Do you agree? YOUR JUST STATING THE FACTS BROTHER ALWAYS!

Already stipulated that......Too set here and insist that a company with 7000 employees will prop up the funds is ludicrous. If ya don't want the 7 million call the funds tell them cuz they are gladly taking it....Most of them.

 

[wolf]

I beg to differ sir. We the ABF Teamsters can't retire until age 57 due to the loss of contributions from yrc. So I along with hundreds of ABF Teamsters have been made to pay with our most precious of assets OUR TIME! We only have so much and everyday we can't retire is another day closer to our graves. Do you have any idea how many Teamsters from yrc and ABF will never live to see retirement because of yrc's inability to live up to their responsibilities?
No al many have and will suffer because of what zollars and the IBT allowed to happen at yrc. YOUR BROTHER ALWAYS!

I am not gonna spend a lot of time on this because your not into listensing to anything at the moment. The fund was headed for trouble before the first YRC mou and I was advising those that asked me to get retired so that they would have a years retirement before the 30 and out was eliminated. You can take my word for it or call BS, no matter, the time has passed.

 

[Docker]

I don't *****foot so don't use "You guys"

I'm saying that you were *****footing and I'll use " You Guys" all I want! How does that sound to you Wolf?

 

[Docker]

Docker CSPF had massive financial issues long before the fiasco at the YRCW companies. So please don't try to blame ALL your funds trouble on YRCF. I'm a 710 road driver. Due to us (YRCF) I will get benifits from 2 different funds. Both from 710, though. Our fund is now divided it NEVER was before. The new fund was created to deal with the reduced contributions. That fund will only pay about $25.00 per month per year of service. The old fund will still covers ABF and my time before 2008.

Did I ever say that the CSPF didn't have problems before the fiasco at YRC? NO! They were having were having financial problems...so just why in the hell was the pension even considered in the deal? Don't even try and tell me that if the situation would of been reversed that you guys wouldn't have some words for us either!! Because I know damn well you would!! I was trying to be civil with you guys in my replies but no...you had to go and make a stupid comment about ridiculing Muler on his facts and perception...so I'm done being civil.And why? I'll tell you why...to try to convince yourself and others that having the pension involved in that deal was A OK...even at the expense of trying to ridicule Brother Muler...that won't happen here at our home!

 

[Docker]

You still don't get it. Anything is better then a YRC shut-down. You'll see. Everybody gets a whack at it

Did I say that I wanted YRC to shut down? No...If you're going to keep insisting to troll on this forum...try to at least pay attention! I'm saying that there could of been other possible solutions than having the pension involved and there weren't any other possibilities even discussed! What did everyone think...let's see...our pension fund is having financial problems so let's just not let YRC not pay into it for awhile and then let them re-enter at 25%...that should fix it all up!

I bet there's a smile on your face right now Joe....isn't there? You're finally getting what you wanted... stirring things up with YRC and ABF!!!!!

 

[albag]

Docker and Muler I meant NO DISRESPECT. And I certainly agree that YRC's problems have exacerbated the funding problems at CSPF. However what would've happened if YRCF had folded? IMO many brothers and sisters would have retired and there would have been one less contributary employer forever. Every time a contributing employer fails the burden must be absorbed by the remaining employers. When these multi-employer plans were formed they had no idea that so many employers would cease operations. Hundreds have dwindled down to a hand full. That fact and that fact alone is the major reason why most retirement fund are in financial distress.

 

[Muler]

Docker and Muler I meant NO DISRESPECT. And I certainly agree that YRC's problems have exacerbated the funding problems at CSPF. However what would've happened if YRCF had folded? IMO many brothers and sisters would have retired and there would have been one less contributary employer forever. Every time a contributing employer fails the burden must be absorbed by the remaining employers. When these multi-employer plans were formed they had no idea that so many employers would cease operations. Hundreds have dwindled down to a hand full. That fact and that fact alone is the major reason why most retirement fund are in financial distress.

Your close. There is a letter out there that say's the problems at yrc and the deal that the IBT allowed really helped the funds. Because it stopped thousands from being able to retire. Imagine our fund glad we can't retire.And we allow this attitude against us. Thank you Brother Docker. YOUR FRIEND AND BROTHER ALWAYS!

 

[Docker]

Docker and Muler I meant NO DISRESPECT. And I certainly agree that YRC's problems have exacerbated the funding problems at CSPF. However what would've happened if YRCF had folded? IMO many brothers and sisters would have retired and there would have been one less contributary employer forever. Every time a contributing employer fails the burden must be absorbed by the remaining employers. When these multi-employer plans were formed they had no idea that so many employers would cease operations. Hundreds have dwindled down to a hand full. That fact and that fact alone is the major reason why most retirement fund are in financial distress.

I’m happy to hear that you meant no disrespect Albag. It’s that age old argument of what would of happened if YRC would of folded…can you say beyond a reasonable doubt that they would have closed if that plan would have been rejected by the rank and file? Can you say beyond a reasonable doubt that they wouldn’t have went to the bargaining table again to try and come up with another solution? Can you say beyond a reasonable doubt that YRC will ever pay the full pension rate ever again?

When I first hit that dock some 20 odd years ago…all I ever heard about from the seasoned Teamsters were that you never ever give anything back. You have to also remember that not only did you give back wages but also involved taking away the pension contributions to an already struggling pension fund and even involved the work rules…yes…even the work rules! But you guys voted for it and I’m not condemning that fact…after all…it was your job on the line…not mine.

What I do get upset about is after the fact when there are some that try to justify our pension being thrown in the bargain with odd remarks like the pension fund was already in trouble…how about let’s add up the total we are now paying into the fund and try and show people that YRC is now paying close to the same amount ABF is paying…knowing damn well that ABF is many times smaller and just totally dismiss when YRC wasn’t paying nothing at all. The fact is that YRC is paying 1 dollar something to ABF’s 7 dollar something per employee hour…plus ABF paying the 7% annual increase for the critical status…is YRC? Just like your argument of what would of happened if YRC would of folded and some went even as far as we YRC Teamsters did it for our fellow ABF Teamsters as well!

I could give more examples but no use whipping a dead horse…it’s a done deal but when salt is rubbed in old wounds…it gets very irritating.

Why is all this being brought up now? IMO…now comes the fact that us ABF Teamsters will be voting on a contract that could very well affect the YRC Teamsters pension without them even having a say. That’s a small example of how your fellow ABF Teamsters were treated when our pension was also being involved in an agreement with no say on our part….not to even mention the other two previous MOUs.

 

[wolf]

I'm saying that you were *****footing and I'll use " You Guys" all I want! How does that sound to you Wolf?

Too be expected.

 

[wolf]

I’m happy to hear that you meant no disrespect Albag. It’s that age old argument of what would of happened if YRC would of folded…can you say beyond a reasonable doubt that they would have closed if that plan would have been rejected by the rank and file? Can you say beyond a reasonable doubt that they wouldn’t have went to the bargaining table again to try and come up with another solution? Can you say beyond a reasonable doubt that YRC will ever pay the full pension rate ever again?

Can you say without a reasonable doubt any of this may have happened?

When I first hit that dock some 20 odd years ago…all I ever heard about from the seasoned Teamsters were that you never ever give anything back. You have to also remember that not only did you give back wages but also involved taking away the pension contributions to an already struggling pension fund and even involved the work rules…yes…even the work rules! But you guys voted for it and I’m not condemning that fact…after all…it was your job on the line…not mine.

Really? 20 years ago you heard this. Wonder if any would say the same in 2009?

What I do get upset about is after the fact when there are some that try to justify our pension being thrown in the bargain with odd remarks like the pension fund was already in trouble…how about let’s add up the total we are now paying into the fund and try and show people that YRC is now paying close to the same amount ABF is paying…knowing damn well that ABF is many times smaller and just totally dismiss when YRC wasn’t paying nothing at all. The fact is that YRC is paying 1 dollar something to ABF’s 7 dollar something per employee hour…plus ABF paying the 7% annual increase for the critical status…is YRC? Just like your argument of what would of happened if YRC would of folded and some went even as far as we YRC Teamsters did it for our fellow ABF Teamsters as well!

Can't argue any of this all true. Except for the "some did it for our" comment. Like to see that!

I could give more examples but no use whipping a dead horse…it’s a done deal but when salt is rubbed in old wounds…it gets very irritating.

I feel the same way, When can I expect it to stop?

Why is all this being brought up now? IMO…now comes the fact that us ABF Teamsters will be voting on a contract that could very well affect the YRC Teamsters pension without them even having a say. That’s a small example of how your fellow ABF Teamsters were treated when our pension was also being involved in an agreement with no say on our part….not to even mention the other two previous MOUs.



In my case, you are wrong. Some one said it better than I... "I could give more examples but no use whipping a dead horse…it’s a done deal but when salt is rubbed in old wounds…it gets very irritating."

Think that answers it all

 

[Docker]

Think that answers it all

You didn't answer anything...you just proved to me what you are all about...which is all about you! Now I see why you try and stick up for Joe...two peas in a pod...it's all about the fact of you guys worrying about your continuing pensions and when it really comes down to it...the hell with all the other brothers and sisters still working! Just as long as you keep yours...right?

 

[wolf]

You didn't answer anything...you just proved to me what you are all about...which is all about you! Now I see why you try and stick up for Joe...two peas in a pod...it's all about the fact of you guys worrying about your continuing pensions and when it really comes down to it...the hell with all the other brothers and sisters still working! Just as long as you keep yours...right?

Well! Must have got Docker into a corner now the Insults, innuendos, and downright Lies start. Docker the Lier.......You will never find where I was worried about my pension above anybody elses........But now that we have established your a Lier there is no since me arguing the point.

 

[Docker]

Well! Must have got Docker into a corner now the Insults, innuendos, and downright Lies start. Docker the Lier.......You will never find where I was worried about my pension above anybody elses........But now that we have established your a Lier there is no since me arguing the point.

LOL...you must be getting desperate now...

Look at you...finally reduced to Joe's tactics!

By the way...what is a lier? If you mean liar...now I want you to try and prove that fact. First...I never claimed that you said that you worried about your pension outright...I said that you are worried about your pension.Just like you never said that you were all about yourself...but you are! Try and get the facts straight...will you? It's a shame that after all I said that this is the best that you can come up with...you are being reduced to a troll...just like your buddy Joe...lol

 

[wolf]

LOL...you must be getting desperate now...

Look at you...finally reduced to Joe's tactics!

By the way...what is a lier? If you mean liar...now I want you to try and prove that fact. First...I never claimed that you said that you worried about your pension outright...I said that you are worried about your pension.Just like you never said that you were all about yourself...but you are! Try and get the facts straight...will you? It's a shame that after all I said that this is the best that you can come up with...you are being reduced to a troll...just like your buddy Joe...lol

Actually I'm using Docker tactics. Do they not look familiar to you? good liars never see their own lies. More Lies and twists. Spell check missed the lier ya got me and your still a lier. You prove me wrong it was your statement. Troll? Not sure if I fit that discription....how about you don't wanna here what I got to say? Better that than telling Fibs.

 

[Docker]

Actually I'm using Docker tactics. Do they not look familiar to you? good liars never see their own lies. More Lies and twists. Spell check missed the lier ya got me and your still a lier. You prove me wrong it was your statement. Troll? Not sure if I fit that discription....how about you don't wanna here what I got to say? Better that than telling Fibs.

I'm telling you...prove me wrong...what's so hard to understand about that? Except for the fact that you have become so desperate that you are grasping at straws now. Now...I'm going to tell you to prove the fact that I lied or you will be in the same class as Joe and labeled a liar as well! How does Liar Wolf sound?

And you do fit the definition of a troll now...like I said...you have been reduced to the likes of a Joe and that is what's so sad...but I guess that you were always just about yourself...just hid that fact very well.

Now...prove that I replied that you SAID that you were worried about your pension...liar!

 

[wolf]

I'm telling you...prove me wrong...what's so hard to understand about that? Except for the fact that you have become so desperate that you are grasping at straws now. Now...I'm going to tell you to prove the fact that I lied or you will be in the same class as Joe and labeled a liar as well! How does Liar Wolf sound?

And you do fit the definition of a troll now...like I said...you have been reduced to the likes of a Joe and that is what's so sad...but I guess that you were always just about yourself...just hid that fact very well.
Not real worried about what a Certified Liar says about me. And as rebutal for my worried about myself there over 3500 posts for you to research, don't know how many before we ported to the new server, and a whole other site to research. If you too stupid to see the truth in that amount of material, then I can't help you.
Now...prove that I replied that you SAID that you were worried about your pension...liar!

Not real worried about what a Certified Liar says about me. And as rebutal for my worried about myself there over 3500 posts for you to research, don't know how many before we ported to the new server, and a whole other site to research. If you too stupid to see the truth in that amount of material, then I can't help you.