ABF | Earnings up, tonnage down...
- Thread starter nothumbleenough
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I didn't liken our vote to those historic acts. I replied to your comment about
how bad things happen when people grow balls. Just saying. And your grasping comment is personal and implies you are of high intelligence. And we both know that is not the case where you are concerned. Just Saying. YOUR PAYING THE BILLS BROTHER ALWAYS!
You know so much more do you? I don't think so. And yes our contributions do help maintain the fund. And I know that for a fact You can;t even post the real amount yrc pays into the pensions because you couldn't post how much they put into 401k plans. So you are the one that can't post the truth can you. So of the of the roughly $7,000,000.00 yrc put into the retirement plans for their Teamsters how much went into the pensions and how much went into the 401K's? You see you gave not so accurate information not me. By the way how;s you know who? And for your information CSPF is not the legal name of the fund smart guy. In court documents it is called the Fitzsimmons fund Mr. know it all. So it appears you are the one not so knowledgeable. I post the facts from their form 5500 where do you get your information from? If my post aren't factual it would only be because the Fitzsimmon fund filed a false financial statement with the Federal Government. Is that what you are saying? Just saying. YOUR POSTING THE FACTS BROTHER ALWAYS!
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Docker
Guest
Wow...has the IBT ever have you worried what they think! Maybe we should think about calling the international before posting anything to make sure it's OK with them first.It is so sad that some follow so blindly that they don't even think to question the IBT's actions and even sadder when they criticize those that do.IMO...it's this kind of thinking from some of the rank and file that has pitted us brother Teamsters against each other and why there is so much discontentment amongst the rank and file today. Are you saying that the IBT is infallible and should never be questioned?
The Teamster union is the rank and file and the IBT is here to represent us to the best of their ability and it's the rank and files responsibility to question their actions if they consider aren't in the best interests for the union as a whole. The IBT works for us...we do not work for them!
You say that the days are gone when brothers stood together...do you mean the days when the brothers stood together after enduring many hardships and even died to get what we have today and what some brothers just willingly gave away for what was personally best for them? The brothers of the past stood together for what was best for the union as a whole...not just themselves.
You say "a Teamster forever"...would you give me your assumption of what a Teamster is?
You are correct Loop. But I will not have these two guys come to this forum and show disrespect for the Brothers that are still carrying the water. I just post some facts and it upsets them. I have a right to post as I see fit about any subject that I have an opinion about. I show facts and links to back up my post. There was a vote on something that affected us and we had to accept it even though we were not allowed to vote. Now we will vote on something that will effect them and they don't like it. To bad for them. The real problem is they come to the ABF forum WHY? If they don't like what we say then why stay here on this forum. I enjoy watching one try to talk in circles and the other one just spews lies and hate for us ABF Teamsters. I have many Brothers at yrc that I am very good friends with but these two are just not my favorite ones due to their antics. YOUR BROTHER TEAMSTER ALWAYS!
If you could not get the "jist" of my post then no amount of exact figures will help. Thats why I did not bring into the figures Docker give me on ABFs contributions that it might be posible that some of the 7000 did not put in full weeks all year long. It mattered not too my point. I Cannot give you the exact figures into CS....Did I see the exact figure from ABF into CS? Did I miss it?....You chose to ignore that YRC is putting in again so be it. Your grasping here Muler.
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The disrepect is not for the Brothers it is for your Attitude. You know that but want to make an issue otherwise. I think most ABF people wise enough to see that. I chose to stand with my YRC Brothers and not belittle them that they accepted Concessions. And I wish ABF well for the friends that now work there. There is only One person every few Posts that feels the need to point out that YRC did not live up to your standards. Any circles you see are created in your mind.
All you put into the post is true. Had he said the "Companies" than I would have understood the post. Now let me ask this. IF you had been convinced that YRC would close would you stand behind their decision for concessions? Knowing full well it would put a strain on ABF? Or is that not the Stand you were willing to make? When you use words like "willing give away" it suggests you think them cowards, not said but read that way by me. I contend that the Majority felt they had no choice due to family, age, whatever and I cannot look down my nose at them.
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Wolf let me add one more aspect of the plight of YRCW teamsters. At the time of what appeared to be the imenent collapse, we were NOT negotiating with YRCW. We were negotiating with Wall Street, YRCW was merely the go between. Obviously the majority of my brothers and sisters BELIEVED what our elected leadership advised us would be the correct course of action.
Docker and Muler I don't say this to provoke but to illistrate. I don't know how many UPS retirees there are in CSPF. But I do know how much money UPS contributes today, $0. More than half of the money UPS spent to buy out of CSPF was lost due to poor investment decisions. So who is paying for them?
Docker and Muler I don't say this to provoke but to illistrate. I don't know how many UPS retirees there are in CSPF. But I do know how much money UPS contributes today, $0. More than half of the money UPS spent to buy out of CSPF was lost due to poor investment decisions. So who is paying for them?
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I was there at the time and remember looking at the Ballot and wonder what was the right thing to do. Along with 60? 70? 80 thousand of my Brothers. That is why I'm mistified by it all. So many took the info they had, from so many directions, and made decisions. And only a fraction of that ammount of Teamsters know what was the "Right" thing to do.
Joe the plumber
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If I'm not mistaken all of the demeaning insults were from you and Docker responding to me and wolf. Now that you are a moderator you can choose who is allowed to post here and any one who disagrees will be regarded as disrespectful? This is ridiculous. Only you are entitled to an opinion. Everyone who doesn't agree with you or Docker is a lair, gets a warning and then banned. This kind of allegiance and politics sucks
Not ignoring just stating facts not BS!
Belittle. Have you know shame. You are talking on a forum that by virtue of a vote not of their own they have been wronged in discounted freight pricing and pension sanctions. And you complain about being belittled. I will tell you what. You give me back all my pension benefits prior to the yrc vote and I will accept some belittling. You are going to have to do better than that. YOUR STILL STANDING HIS GROUND BROTHER ALWAYS!
We understand that. But don't try and blow smoke up our butts. I guess you don't remember how some posted that a yrc yes vote would also help ABF Teamsters. I never read where you called that BS!
Well maybe you did not know that any UPS retiree under the age of 65 is paid by UPS. That's right it was part of the agreement. When it comes to that fund I do my homework. How about the money we pay out for people to run the fund. Did you know the fund made money last year? They did. YOUR COUNTING THE BEANS BROTHER ALWAYS!
I have never ban anyone. And anyone that can read knows you have been nothing but down right nasty in your name calling and lying.So that little song and dance won't fly here. Besides you don't have to come to this forum you choose to. We never invited you here. You just hang around like a bad rash and look silly. We ABF Teamsters will handle our own business. We will be informed and vote with a goal in mind. Your hate for the ABF Teamsters and the ABF company are well documented. I see it as being jealous and ashamed on your part. But that is my opinion and that is that. Just Saying. YOUR FORWARD MOVING BROTHER ALWAYS!If I'm not mistaken all of the demeaning insults were from you and Docker responding to me and wolf. Now that you are a moderator you can choose who is allowed to post here and any one who disagrees will be regarded as disrespectful? This is ridiculous. Only you are entitled to an opinion. Everyone who doesn't agree with you or Docker is a lair, gets a warning and then banned. This kind of allegiance and politics sucks
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Docker
Guest
You want me to answer..."IF I had been convinced that YRC would close would I stand behind their decision for concessions? Knowing full well it would put a strain on ABF? First of all...and these are all just my opinions...the welfare and integrity of our union comes foremost and that includes ABF. Second...there's no way anyone could of been absolutely convinced that if the YRC Teamsters would of rejected the YRCW Restructuring Agreement that they would of folded and my personal opinion is that wouldn't of happened...they would of went back to the bargaining table but that point isn't even worth arguing because it's all in what you believe and no one can say beyond a reasonable doubt that they are right on either side of that argument.Do you agree?
I would of been a no vote because it was not in the best interest of our union as a whole.Let me explain...it showed weakness on our leadership side as well as the rank and file thus giving all companies a bird eyes view of how the threat of folding will get the union to cave in to their demands and once that starts...you are entering in dangerous territory. Robert Young even went as far as to threaten us already when they were on their campaign for our concessions in stating that he would just shut ABF down if we voted it down when he got very frustrated after receiving negative comments at his meeting with the ABF Teamsters.Just look what has really transpired in the whole YRC chaos...after the first concessions passed with flying colors...they realized they could get more easily...then comes the second...also passed very well...which made them realize that after two very successful concessions with hardly a fight at all...got bolder and came up with the all so popular Restructuring Agreement which went way beyond just concessions...it also changed the work rules and even went as far as taking 5 minutes from the breaks...taking that 5 minutes from the breaks was the companies way of slapping the workers right in the face to see just how vulnerable the workers were and to their amazement...it still passed...the workers were willing to help the company survive by taking the huge monetary cuts and still allow the company to slap them in the face by letting them even take those measly 5 minutes...which the company didn't care about at all...they just wanted to prove a point and proved it very well!
But that wasn't your question...your question was if I would stand behind their decision for concessions? I do stand behind their decision...even though I disagree and voice my displeasure with it...we are still brothers and sisters in this great Teamster union and just like in one's own personal family...we may not always agree and fight amongst ourselves over decisions made but still end up supporting our family member whether we believe it right or wrong.I feel the same when it comes to the union...but now...I just feel that it's a setback that we will have to overcome because the Teamsters can't afford to go backwards after all the hardships of the past to get were we are today and I do hope that I will be wrong in my thinking that the YRC Teamsters will never get up to full wage and benefits again...that will be one time that I would be happy to admit I was wrong!
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Docker
Guest
If I'm not mistaken all of the demeaning insults were from you and Docker responding to me and wolf. Now that you are a moderator you can choose who is allowed to post here and any one who disagrees will be regarded as disrespectful? This is ridiculous. Only you are entitled to an opinion. Everyone who doesn't agree with you or Docker is a lair, gets a warning and then banned. This kind of allegiance and politics sucks
You will never give up...will you Joe? After all the numerous times that others and myself have proved you to just outright lie...you still maintain that you were accused of lying just because people disagreed with you...I will state this again...you are labeled a liar because you were just that...a proven liar and not just by one but several posters on here.So you can cry and whine all you want but the fact remains that you are nothing but an overzealous instigator that despises ABF and the ABF Teamsters and will outright lie to agitate the members here and that is your sole purpose in coming to the ABF forum.
And you will always be:
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Docker
Guest
You can do all the illustrating you want but the fact remains clear that the yes vote clearly demonstrated that the majority of the YRC Teamsters looked after their own interests because they thought that the company would fold if the vote was no.Tell me...what is such a shame about doing what you thought was in the best interest for you and your family at the time and just coming out and admitting that fact? IMO...what the shame is...trying to convince yourself and others by coming up with different reasons why instead of the real reason which is nothing to be ashamed of but not admitting that fact is.
First of all, I thought that I did concede why I voted yes. My elected leaders CONVINCED enough brothers and sisters that a no vote was a vote to close ALL the YRCW companies. So there for a vote to end my job.
And now perhaps it's time to admit that much of your anger is the result of the disadvantage the YRCW MOUs put ABF teamsters at the bargaining table. Your assertion that somehow we wish for failure is absurd.
I also don't see the vicsious attacks on sincere outsider posts on the YRC Freight board.
And as far as CSPF goes ABF is one of hundreds of contributory employers.
And now perhaps it's time to admit that much of your anger is the result of the disadvantage the YRCW MOUs put ABF teamsters at the bargaining table. Your assertion that somehow we wish for failure is absurd.
I also don't see the vicsious attacks on sincere outsider posts on the YRC Freight board.
And as far as CSPF goes ABF is one of hundreds of contributory employers.