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ABF | First paragraph tells you how bad it is. 87 year old as a "new" employee!

Homesick said:
Could it also be that most people would rather spend their money now rather than saving for the future? Delayed gratification is not something you see in kids and most adults. But, according to you, they should not have to or be given a choice. If most people choose to live 'high on the hog' rather than save for retirement I don't feel they (us, you and me, anyone) should be made to save for retirement. They make their bed, they should sleep in it. I have no sympathy. I have watched people take expensive vacations, live in expensive houses, drive expensive vehicles while my wife and I lived frugally, sacrificed time with our kids, skipped nice vacations, drove older vehicles that are over 15yrs old, lived in double wide trailers until we could afford a nice home and saved for retirement. I want to sleep in the bed I sacrificed for not continue to sacrifice for those people who 'deserved to drive nice vehicles, live in expensive homes and enjoy nicer vacations' than my family have ever had.
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Delayed gratification and investment levels are good points, but what happens during the next market correction? What happens if it's even worse than the last one? What if someone invested in a bubble?

I know we have these high-minded capitalist ideas about autonomy, but there are a lot of puppet masters working in private sector finance. I should be getting some value for my 33% partnership with the government.
 
Homesick said:
Could it also be that most people would rather spend their money now rather than saving for the future? Delayed gratification is not something you see in kids and most adults. But, according to you, they should not have to or be given a choice. If most people choose to live 'high on the hog' rather than save for retirement I don't feel they (us, you and me, anyone) should be made to save for retirement. They make their bed, they should sleep in it. I have no sympathy. I have watched people take expensive vacations, live in expensive houses, drive expensive vehicles while my wife and I lived frugally, sacrificed time with our kids, skipped nice vacations, drove older vehicles that are over 15yrs old, lived in double wide trailers until we could afford a nice home and saved for retirement. I want to sleep in the bed I sacrificed for not continue to sacrifice for those people who 'deserved to drive nice vehicles, live in expensive homes and enjoy nicer vacations' than my family have ever had.
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Brother,....I’m glad you’ve done well.......Truly I am........

But you’re presuming everyone else is doing the “instant gratification “ thing by choice.
And,........you’re writing off your fellow citizens who......maybe by no choice of their own.....had no extra money to invest in any sort of investment scheme.

Break out the violins now,......and I’ll present myself as a sad, sad example......Nine carriers closed underneath me from 1975 to 1985. We had bought a “starter home” in the hopes of fixing it up and selling it for a profit........Commendable, right?

Then the job losses and uncertainty started, and the kids started coming , too.............
And here we are, 41 years later........in the same 2 bedroom starter home that we raised four children in......

Was I stupid? Did we live like prolifigates? Did we flaunt our wealth on payday and beg the other six days?

Hell,......we don’t even drink.......or smoke. Never bought a new car until last year. Rarely take vacations.........

No,.........we were just...unlucky......Like many, many other people with stories similar to mine.

So,.....should we just write off people like me, as being too poor to worry about, and too unlucky to do any caring about?

Having an employer requiring you to take 15% of your wages every week, and invest it in a scheme with no guarantees, and subject to....almost regular....market adjustments.......while that employer is making record profits........(...no, ...excuse me....YOU’RE making him record profits.....)......
Is almost criminal, in my book,........especially if you’re counting on part of that 15% to pay for mortgages and baby’s formula.....

That’s no “pension”.......That’s truly a scheme.......

How about this? Every employer put the money that they offer to match,.......or have to pay into defined-benefit plans.......or give out as quarterly bonuses...........into Social Security.......the ultimate defined -benefit plan...........and raise the monthly check level to three-fourths of your pre-retirement income.....indexed to inflation, of course.....

Wouldn’t that solve the retirement problem? Checks for life, right?
No more pension funds, no more 401(k)’s, no more IRA’s.........
Just an expansion of Social Security based on your wages, and funded by employers,.....who won’t have to fund,....or match,...anything else. A living wage you can afford to retire on.......at your choice,....not when the “market” says you have enough money.

Yaas.......I can hear the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth on Wall Street already........
 
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canaryinthemine said:
Brother,....I’m glad you’ve done well.......Truly I am........

But you’re presuming everyone else is doing the “instant gratification “ thing by choice.
And,........you’re writing off your fellow citizens who......maybe by no choice of their own.....had no extra money to invest in any sort of investment scheme.

Break out the violins now,......and I’ll present myself as a sad, sad example......Nine carriers closed underneath me from 1975 to 1985. We had bought a “starter home” in the hopes of fixing it up and selling it for a profit........Commendable, right?

Then the job losses and uncertainty started, and the kids started coming , too.............
And here we are, 41 years later........in the same 2 bedroom starter home that we raised four children in......

Was I stupid? Did we live like prolifigates? Did we flaunt our wealth on payday and beg the other six days?

Hell,......we don’t even drink.......or smoke. Never bought a new car until last year. Rarely take vacations.........

No,.........we were just...unlucky......Like many, many other people with stories similar to mine.

So,.....should we just write off people like me, as being too poor to worry about, and too unlucky to do any caring about?

Having an employer requiring you to take 15% of your wages every week, and invest it in a scheme with no guarantees, and subject to....almost regular....market adjustments.......while that employer is making record profits........(...no, ...excuse me....YOU’RE making him record profits.....)......
Is almost criminal, in my book,........especially if you’re counting on part of that 15% to pay for mortgages and baby’s formula.....

That’s no “pension”.......That’s truly a scheme.......

How about this? Every employer put the money that they offer to match,.......or have to pay into defined-benefit plans.......or give out as quarterly bonuses...........into Social Security.......the ultimate defined -benefit plan...........and raise the monthly check level to three-fourths of your pre-retirement income.....indexed to inflation, of course.....

Wouldn’t that solve the retirement problem? Checks for life, right?
No more pension funds, no more 401(k)’s, no more IRA’s.........
Just an expansion of Social Security based on your wages, and funded by employers,.....who won’t have to fund,....or match,...anything else. A living wage you can afford to retire on.......at your choice,....not when the “market” says you have enough money.

Yaas.......I can hear the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth on Wall Street already........
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Brothers, first I welcome a market correction. Experience has taught me that money is made on pull-backs and corrections. As for bubbles, diversification, diversification, diversification.
Canary, I'm a little confused on what your saying so if you would be so kind as to straighten me out; you worked for 19 union companies (?) over 41 years and you didn't make more than if you worked at non-union companies? I ask because union paid more than non-union, had better and cheaper benefits (to the employees) yet you managed to save less?? ABF is my first union company and I saved, invested, studied, bought rental properties, bought into 2 business and did a good part of that on non-union wages. Also, my wife has never made much over minimum wage and currently makes nothing. She decided 3 years ago that we earned enough for her to quit working and just stay home. So I'm confused on the bad luck part. Brother I don't want to pry into your business or question your choices but I truly don't understand.
 
Homesick said:
Brothers, first I welcome a market correction. Experience has taught me that money is made on pull-backs and corrections. As for bubbles, diversification, diversification, diversification.
Canary, I'm a little confused on what your saying so if you would be so kind as to straighten me out; you worked for 19 union companies (?) over 41 years and you didn't make more than if you worked at non-union companies? I ask because union paid more than non-union, had better and cheaper benefits (to the employees) yet you managed to save less?? ABF is my first union company and I saved, invested, studied, bought rental properties, bought into 2 business and did a good part of that on non-union wages. Also, my wife has never made much over minimum wage and currently makes nothing. She decided 3 years ago that we earned enough for her to quit working and just stay home. So I'm confused on the bad luck part. Brother I don't want to pry into your business or question your choices but I truly don't understand.
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The Republican delusion. I have been able to do well for myself, so why do people choose to not do as well?
 
LTLAnonymous said:
The Republican delusion. I have been able to do well for myself, so why do people choose to not do as well?
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Brother LTL,why do you think that is a delusion? I believe I'm average but I made different decisions than some people. I have not had 19 jobs but I've had 10 jobs since I was discharged. Most where early in my career and lasted only a few months until I could find a better job. Yet I still managed to live below my means (I still put money into my retirement account). I studied and made retirement savings a priority. That is the only decision I made that others didn't. It was our priority lists and we are now talking about one of my top 3 priorities. If this conversation was about expensive vacations or expensive cars or even expensive houses, then I would be on minority side. It's decisions based on priorities.
 
Homesick said:
Brother LTL,why do you think that is a delusion? I believe I'm average but I made different decisions than some people. I have not had 19 jobs but I've had 10 jobs since I was discharged. Most where early in my career and lasted only a few months until I could find a better job. Yet I still managed to live below my means (I still put money into my retirement account). I studied and made retirement savings a priority. That is the only decision I made that others didn't. It was our priority lists and we are now talking about one of my top 3 priorities. If this conversation was about expensive vacations or expensive cars or even expensive houses, then I would be on minority side. It's decisions based on priorities.
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I also have been very fortunate. My wife and I decided not to have children, and that has freed up a lot of capital to invest. But I don't expect people to make the same choices I did, receive the same opportunities, or have the same outcome.

Life is hard enough without people demanding to know why they aren't doing as well as them. Everyone's pain is their own. *shrug*
 
STRONG back in the Day's! KISS a.s.s. today Teamster. AFL-CIO Teamster was good back in the OLD DAY'S
 
LTLAnonymous said:
I also have been very fortunate. My wife and I decided not to have children, and that has freed up a lot of capital to invest. But I don't expect people to make the same choices I did, receive the same opportunities, or have the same outcome.

Life is hard enough without people demanding to know why they aren't doing as well as them. Everyone's pain is their own. *shrug*
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I don't think we are demanding to know why other people made the decision they made. We just don't want those people taking from us to supplement their decisions.
 
Homesick said:
I don't think we are demanding to know why other people made the decision they made. We just don't want those people taking from us to supplement their decisions.
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Social Security is just a publicly-held pension that we have invested in. If you retire and collect Social Security, that means you have paid into the system your entire life. Most people will never get back what they put in. Not even close.
 
LTLAnonymous said:
Social Security is just a publicly-held pension that we have invested in. If you retire and collect Social Security, that means you have paid into the system your entire life. Most people will never get back what they put in. Not even close.
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Not so sure that's accurate LTL...

"According to the institute’s data, a two-earner couple receiving an average wage — $44,600 per spouse in 2012 dollars — and turning 65 in 2010 would have paid $722,000 into Social Security and Medicare and can be expected to take out $966,000 in benefits. So, this couple will be paid about one-third more in benefits than they paid in taxes.

If a similar couple had retired in 1980, they would have gotten back almost three times what they put in. And if they had retired in 1960, they would have gotten back more than eight times what they paid in. The bigger discrepancies common decades ago can be traced in part to the fact that some of these individuals’ working lives came before Social Security taxes were collected beginning in 1937.

Some types of families did much better than average. A couple with only one spouse working (and receiving the same average wage) would have paid in $361,000 if they turned 65 in 2010, but can expect to get back $854,000 — more than double what they paid in. In 1980, this same 65-year-old couple would have received five times more than what they paid in, while in 1960, such a couple would have ended up with 14 times what they put in.

Such findings suggest that, even allowing for inflation and investment gains, many seniors will receive much more in benefits than what they paid in."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...re-and-social-security-what-you-paid-what-yo/
 
Homesick said:
Brothers, first I welcome a market correction. Experience has taught me that money is made on pull-backs and corrections. As for bubbles, diversification, diversification, diversification.
Canary, I'm a little confused on what your saying so if you would be so kind as to straighten me out; you worked for 19 union companies (?) over 41 years and you didn't make more than if you worked at non-union companies? I ask because union paid more than non-union, had better and cheaper benefits (to the employees) yet you managed to save less?? ABF is my first union company and I saved, invested, studied, bought rental properties, bought into 2 business and did a good part of that on non-union wages. Also, my wife has never made much over minimum wage and currently makes nothing. She decided 3 years ago that we earned enough for her to quit working and just stay home. So I'm confused on the bad luck part. Brother I don't want to pry into your business or question your choices but I truly don't understand.
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Whup!......you misread my post, Brother......Only nine jobs,.......Gateway, Motor Freight, Werner-Continental, Hall's, Maislin, Mason-Dixon, Automobile Transport, Nu-Car Carriers, and M & G Convoy.......

And then I was an O/O for nine years, three trucks , and about 5 major leases.....

And,....then I got on with ABF for 24 years........There was some overlap with companies and O/O,...as I was trying to be an entrepreneur and hire people to drive the first truck.......(..Hoo Boy!..)

And don't forget four children, spaced out over 14 years,..........Driver's license and diapers at the same time........Twice........

I made good money at the Union carriers,.....Unfortunately, I didn't make it long enough to get on my feet, after each hole I fell into....

But I didn't use myself as an example to make you weep bitter tears and rend your garments on my behalf.......

SOME people were lucky enough to get a good start and grow on that.........MOST people never had a chance to catch their "financial breath",...as it were.....

Hey!........I think I did rather well, in the face of mounting adversity.......Comfortable, even.....

How much better if Congress,....as influenced by lobbyists,......had not deregulated my chosen profession just as I was getting into it,...........would be a matter of mere conjecture....Spilled milk...

But right there,........Deregulation.......Lobbyists' fingerprints all over that piece of legislation. And now we see Congress changing pension laws, removing guarantees, de-funding insurance meant to back up pension failures. You don't see more lobbyists' fingerprints?

Six months after the Enron debacle,.....where just about all of their employees got cheated out of their pension savings,.......Congress had a chance to pass legislation keeping privately-held pension funds like Enron from holding more that 20% of company stock in their portfolio.....(...defined-benefit plans can not, by law, hold more than 10% of any one stock..)....

Congress refused to pass that reform legislation! Six months AFTER Enron!.........Wall Street and bank Lobbyists again.......
 
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