Full Rate or lock the gate

Discussion in 'Holland' started by yrc-atm, Feb 19, 2018.

  1. yrc-atm

    yrc-atm commodities relocator

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    10 years of this :shit: is enough! Back to full wage and benefit, or shut this circus down
     
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  2. Hoodock

    Hoodock Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking if you gave it up. Chances of getting it back are slim and none. But I'm hoping you guys get everything back!
     
  3. wongway

    wongway -15% Pay , Never forget

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    Agree , 2019 Pay the Rate or Shut the Gate, we been giving back while they have been giving themselves Free stock awards and Bonuses !:6788:
     
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  4. TonyTheTiger

    TonyTheTiger Active Member

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    getting anything back is wishful thinking, I’m afraid.
     
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  5. wongway

    wongway -15% Pay , Never forget

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    If don't get anything back then Lock the gate .........enough is enough ........RIP 2019
     
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  6. skullcramp

    skullcramp Government Seal

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    Wonder if el presidente hawkins will take a page out of welsh's playbook, and start writing those "if you don't like it quit" letters. Think he will come up with something original?
     
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  7. gearraker

    gearraker Active Member

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    My personal opinion is...if they gave it all back it would bankrupt your company
     
  8. yrc-atm

    yrc-atm commodities relocator

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    So be it
     
  9. Keepingon

    Keepingon Well-Known Member

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    Those letters come after he begs for and gets the yes votes.
     
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  10. Toby

    Toby Well-Known Member

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    From past track record of places that gave it away they never got it back once they did so. Holland/YRC will be no exception.

    They may dangle some small carrots in front of the members, but to honestly believe that what was given up in 09’ will ever be given back is a pipe dream.

    At one time we set the precedent for all the other companies wage and benefits wise. They would try to stay close to attract experienced drivers and to retain the drivers they had. As we all know this has been thrown out the door.

    A dollar a year and contributing back fully into the pension would be a good start, but they will not do that.

    At best I could see maybe three dollars over five years, a bump in pension contributions, employees contributed H&W, and no return of the lost vacation time.

    To continue to get new blood as many vets are hanging around to see what goes down in 19’, I can even see a possibility of a 401k offering. As we are all well aware of new hires really do not have a pension under current conditions, so this may be a carrot they offer.

    One thing I do see happening and they are already experimenting with it over the last few weekends is that the two remaining barns in Chicago that are not dock combo, goes dock combo. Through the grapevine WH recently has been bringing in drivers to work the docks on the weekend where in the past that was always 710 work. They have given the option for 710 guys to come in and many have turned it down so they offered it up to 705 guys. The 710 dock guys have been writing their own checks as of late trying to catch up though so many may be just burnt out, who knows but it is opening that pandora box for combo there.

    I do believe that the company will seek language to possible use of technology as a discipline tracking tool. If you remember when they came back in 14’ for the extension to 19’ it was full of discipline language added in.

    One thing about YRC/and even Holland that has been a thorn is that it has always seemed that they hire you then seek to find ways to fire you around every corner. Instead of treating those who have been loyal, took the sacrifice, slogged through the rough years and weathered on, it still seems that they would rather treat people like children instead of valued experienced adult employees. It’s been the game for way to long that they have played and yes to some extent we did as well, but a détente needs to occur if this place is going to survive after 19’.
     
  11. Toby

    Toby Well-Known Member

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    Guys who have been around do you remember this?

    P.R.I.D.E it was the old Holland acronym for awhile. The company has been so adrift over the last 9-10 years with YRC buying us one wonders if it will ever get back to that mindset of days gone by.
     
  12. Toby

    Toby Well-Known Member

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    I am going to say this and it will not be popular, but many of you guys already know this deep down.

    The Union really does not have that much leverage come contract time anymore. It is all grand and boisterous to state full rate or lock the gate, but in reality that’s exactly a huge possibility.

    The Union for the most part is dependent on YRC/Holland/New Penn in the freight division, they are the Last of the big’s And they will do what is necessary to keep that revenue coming in.

    Not to long ago our BA let it slip that we would not be allowed to strike when we brought up why we are still paying extra towards the strike fund. In reality IF a strike occurred it would spell the death nail to the company.

    Companies are already dissatisfied with the service that these companies have offered over the last few years, many shippers have already moved on to other carriers and not to long ago I remember seeing on BOL’s “do not ship on YRC or YRC companies”. The reputation for this place has been tarnished hopefully not beyond repair, but darn close. And no I don’t blame the rank and file because we have had to endure so much waste and confusion by those in charge. The rolling stock even with some of the infusion of newer units looks like a junkyard on wheels. YRC still is driving around Roadway tractors pulling Yellow trailers. Where XPO redid all of their units, yes deep pockets, but with employee givebacks for 9 years you had some cash flow don’t deny it. It goes a long way to looking professional or in this case looking like a company hanging on by a thread.

    Again the Unions do not have the same leverage as days gone by. They know it, and deep down so do the membership. The ABF and UPS contracts will be a bellwether, but YRC/Holland is a whole nother animal.

    We have all gone over the scenarios on TB and in the break rooms many times. Don’t think for a moment that they will not close the doors and sell off and reopen non union under a different name. It’s not the 1960’s, 70’s, 80’s, 90’s or even early 00’s anymore. The non’s have been out there for years spreading the doom of this place with customers. They have had salesman directly tell customers we are folding, Fed Ex in particular.

    I do believe the Union will make a deal if they have not done so already. The consessions to members will be small but just enough to swallow to keep the ball rolling. The telling time will be after 19’, can and will this place turn it around truly, not just spurts as we see happening and then the eventual reverting and falling back. I mean truly turning it around and being the leaders in the industry once again. Sadly this is not the case anylonger and that’s the real reality of it! But if they do not post 19’ then yes gentlemen the days are truly numbered and the gates will be closed and Holland/YRC will go the route of CF.

    Never ever say or believe “we are to big to fail” I hear it all the time, but the bigger you are the harder you fall.
     
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  13. Keepingon

    Keepingon Well-Known Member

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    what I see in 2019 is that management has to give us more but they are not going to make us whole on what we have giving up.
    What we have to do is make sure we are heard not only by the company but by the Union. In the last MOU our salary increased by an embarrassing $1.20 per hour and the healthcare went up $3.85 an hour. My healthcare is in NJ is an excellent plan if you use it properly and I have been told by the President of the local that there is always extra money in the healthcare plan which they now have the option to transfer into the pension plan.

    YRC has just announced rate hikes of almost six percent, we have seen all through the MOU’s that “EQUAL SACRIFICE “ is BS
    and they no longer have the option of the economy is bad and there are no jobs out there to use as a scare tactic.

    We can not go into negotiations thinking we are getting everything back but should make a stand to get on a path towards getting on the better side of the industry standard.

    We need dollars not cents on the hourly pay rate.
    We can accept ANY CUTS to the healthcare.

    The fight is with the pension payments. I don’t see them being willing to contribute more money to funds that are collapsing, and unfortunately I understand it.
    But there should be an option for some kind of match if an employee makes contributions to a 401k.

    There is a driver shortage, the economy is way better than it was in 2009. If anyone thinks if they close you can’t get another job then shame on you. If anyone believes they will fold the regionals into YRC your crazy if that was doable they would have done it already. Everything we had and lost was gotten by sacrifice of men who fought for it.

    Be vocal to your local union and let them know your willing to fight.
     
  14. howlinwolf

    howlinwolf Active Member

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    to all who are posting here about not getting restored to full rate, the cuts are temporary. originally to 2015 then extended to april 1 2019. its intention was to restore full rate when this agreement ends. The only scenerio we will not return to full rate and pension on 04/01/2019 will be if the rank and file lets them do so. Yes this scares me to think about because so many are already here posting their negative thoughts. Plus many of the newer employees could draw 8 psi vacuum on an onion sack without even drawing a good breath, count them as yes votes. Stay positive please. Someone posted about company not having funds, check some of your collect bills. Rates discounted as high as 84%with many in the 75 to 80 range. So if they are broke it could be by design?
     
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  15. falconfan

    falconfan Well-Known Member

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    Nice slogan, must be ready to draw social security...and the ignorance continues.

    Why do the Teamsters' union lose so many members? Very simply: Many of the companies the union has unionized cannot compete in a competitive market.

    Take, for example, the trucking industry. In 1980, the United States Congress passed the Motor Carrier Act, which was signed into law by Democrat President Jimmy Carter.

    The Motor Carrier Act deregulated interstate trucking. Government control of the trucking industry stopped and non-union competition increased. Price fixing went the way of the dinosaurs.

    Deregulation of the trucking industry brought more competition because the costly process of government control of competition was eliminated. Most of the major union carriers in business prior to 1980 were not able to adapt to changes in the marketplace brought on by deregulation. Consequently, most major union carriers have gone out of business.

    Below is a partial listing of Teamsters-represented companies that have gone out of business.
    COMPANY
    APPROX # OF
    EMPLOYEES

    1 P.I.E. Nationwide
    17,593
    2 Consolidated Freightways
    15,500
    3 McLean Trucking Co.
    14,530
    4 American Freight System
    10,981
    5 Spector Redball
    7,610
    6 Maislin Transport
    6,375
    7 Hall's Motor Transit
    5,809
    8 Interstate Motor Freight
    5,536
    9 Preston Trucking
    5,500
    10 Transcon Lines
    4,817
    11 Lee Way Motor Frt.
    4,139
    12 Wilson Freight Co.
    3,754
    13 Mason & Dixon Lines
    3,627
    14 IML Freight
    3,624
    15 Jones Motor Company
    3,547
    16 NationsWay Transport Service
    3,500
    17 T.I.M.E. - D.C.
    3,303
    18 Branch Motor Express
    3,032
    19 Pilot Freight Carriers
    2,685
    20 Johnson Motor Lines
    2,515
    21 Pacific Motor Trucking
    2,470
    22 Commercial Lovelace Mtr. Frt.
    2,467
    23 ICX (ILL.-Calif. Express)
    2,373
    24 Gordons Transports
    2,163
    25 ANR Advanced Transportation
    2,000
    26 C W Transport
    1,990
    27 System 99
    1,962
    28 Briggs Transportation
    1,805
    29 Motor Freight Express
    1,802
    30 A-P-A Transport
    1,800
    31 Campbell Sixty-Six
    1,704
    32 Murphy Motor Freight
    1,578
    33 Cooper Jarrett
    1,532
    34 Milne Truck Lines
    1,497
    35 Sante Fe Trails Trnptn Co.
    1,483
    36 Holmes Transportation
    1,352
    37 Jones Truck Lines
    1,312
    38 North Penn Transfer
    1,272
    39 Eazor Express
    1,268
    40 Hemingway Transport
    1,268
    41 Oneida Motor Freight
    1,251
    42 Chief Freight Lines
    1,038
    43 Boss Linco Lines
    1,012
    44 Midwest Emery Frt Sys
    993
    45 Mid-American Line
    971
    46 Clairmont Transfer Co
    969
    47 Mushroom Transportation
    941
    48 BN Transport, Inc.
    919
    49 R-W Service System
    837
    50 Tucker Freight
    837
    51 G M W (Glendenning)
    828
    52 B & L Motor Freight
    826
    53 Silver Wheel Frt Lines
    818
    54 Lyons Transportation Lines
    813
    55 United Trucking Service
    796
    56 AAA Trucking Corp
    765
    57 Salt Creek Freightways
    698
    58 Davidson Transfer & Stor.
    697
    59 Orscheln Bros. Truck Lines
    660
    60 Wycoff Co. (Express Co.)
    650
    61 Rio Grande Motor Way
    648
    62 Suburban Motor Freight
    621
    63 Brada Miller Freight
    616
    64 Tennessee Carolina Transport
    595
    65 Con-Way Eastern Express
    549
    66 Cleve Columbus & Cin Hwy
    541
    67 Central Truck Lines
    502
    68 Mercury Freight Lines
    484
    69 Tose-Fowler, Inc.
    479
    70 Courier-Newsom Express
    475
    71 Advance-United Expways
    460
    72 Bender & Loudon Motor Frt
    450
    73 Admiral Merchants Mtr Frt
    445
    74 Renner's Express
    438
    75 Steve D. Thompson Trkg.
    400
    76 Perkins Trucking Co.
    399
    77 Brown Express
    386
    78 Chippwa Motor Freight
    382
    79 Sterling Transit Co.
    382
    80 Wenham Transportation
    380
    81 Cook Motor Lines
    357
    82 Fowler and Williams
    348
    83 Express Freight Lines
    344
    84 GA FLA ALA Transportation Co.
    338
    85 Denver Midwest Mtr. Frt
    320
    86 Gross Common Carrier
    299
    87 Mercury Motor Express, Inc.
    293
    88 Manley Truck Line
    285
    89 Liberty Trucking Co
    281
    90 Fox and Gin, Inc.
    278
    91 Auclair Transportation Co.
    270
    92 Browning Freight Lines
    265
    93 Suwak Transportation
    261
    94 Virginia-Carolina Freight Lines
    260
    95 Allegheny Freight Lines
    249
    96 Tobler Transfer
    248
    97 Smith Transportation Co.
    235
    98 Highway Express, Inc.
    228
    99 Wooleyhan Transport
    207
    100 Dignan Trucking, Inc.
    197
    101 North Shore and Cent ILL Frt. Co.
    195
    102 Beacon Fast Freight Co.
    192
    103 Bowling Green Express
    187
    104 Peters Truck Lines
    171
    105 Dean Truck Line
    158
    106 Pulaski Highway Express
    154
    107 P. Callahan, Inc.
    153
    108 Sioux Transportation
    151
    109 Berman's Motor Express
    148
    110 Best Way Motor Freight
    134
    111 Nebraska-Iowa Xpress
    133
    112 Kains Motor Service
    131
    113 Graf Brothers
    129
    114 Maiers Motor Frt. Co.
    129
    115 Intercity Transportation Co.
    127
    116 Reinhardt Transfer Co.
    119
    117 Badger Freightways
    105
    118 William Hayes Line
    105
    119 Horn's Motor Express
    104
    120 Standard Motor Freight
    102
    121 American Freightways Co.
    90
    122 Williamson Transportation
    90
    123 Turner Trucking Co.
    89
    124 Griffith Motor Express
    89
    125 F & W Express
    88
    126 Jersey Coast Frt Lines
    86
    127 Sims Motor Transport
    82
    128 Evans Delivery Co.
    59
    129 Kenmore Transportation
    56
    130 Seaway Motor Express
    55
    131 C & E Trucking Corp.
    50
    132 R.D. Motor Express
    50
    133 Murfreesboro Freight Line
    44
    134 Red Ball, Inc.
    44
    135 Root's Express
    44
    136 Carpenters Mtr. Frt.
    39
    137 Waverly Transfer
     
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  16. Toby

    Toby Well-Known Member

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    Come on Falcon you know the false montra: Reagan was the one that deregulated the trucking industry... I have been trying for over 25 yrs to educate people that it was actually Carter, but to date you still hear it was Reagan.

    And I would also like to add in large part it is the Teamsters themselves who have allowed membership to decline. When you get the teamsters magazine what is it that you see as far as organizing? Nurses, cops, you can just about name it other than freight with little exception and dismal results.

    I go back to the question I posed the BA; why is it that we pay additional strike fund, when in reality the Union will not allow YRC/Holland to strike. I get that the Union can’t really afford to gamble a strike by these companies for many reasons, and the main one is that the Non’s in many ways are like wolves on the prowl just waiting for that to happen. It would truly be a death nail that in the current environment of the company just may lay it to rest and the leadership knows this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  17. falconfan

    falconfan Well-Known Member

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    It’s unfortunate Toby, that the very thing that brought us to the union is now the thorn in our side .9 billion in pension withdrawal liabilities make us worthless for a purchase.
    Hopefully the lenders will keep them afloat being content with the risk by making 75 to 90 million per year in interest.
    At 385/ week the company pays for our insurance they could easily give us 5 more dollars per hour and give us the same insurance as the non union lines.It might be the smart thing to do since so many base our job solely on hourly wage.Paying over 20 thousand / year for insurance gives us just about the best insurance the United States has to offer and it’s unfortunate that many don’t see the value in that.Factor in the pension contribution and the work rules and we certainly are not at a competitive advantage.
    In Atlanta most city drivers make 60 to 70+ thousand with free insurance.At the end of the day we aren’t going to do that at non union and we sure won’t have a grievance procedure for seniority violations,suspensions,and terminations.If we shut our own doors with a job like ours we will look like ignorant fools to the outside world ...and to me.
     
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  18. Keepingon

    Keepingon Well-Known Member

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    I would argue the answer to your question is bad leadership/ managment and greed. And our failure to hold those people accountable.
    Take for example the MOU. Yellow management was given concessions that made non union carriers jealous and still don’t compete. wage cuts, vacation reduction, pension payment reductions, rule changes, use of NON UNION paid transport, etc etc you would think with all of that they could compete with anyone but not only do they not compete after almost 10 years of it they are still in debt and executives still receive big bonuses every quarter.

    As for Union membership declining look at what goes on not only did Union leadership go along with those concessions they PUSHED for them to be imposed on companies like New Penn and Holland who were making money when the concession took effect which hurt those companies and lead to the decline in hiring. It was Union leadership that allowed UPS to buy out of the pension funds and can’t account for the billions UPS paid to get out and now tell us the funds are in trouble because there are not enough participants to fund them. I can’t even list the corruption cases within the union that has been brought to light, the fact that our union leadership continues to be more active in Washington politics rather than running our union drives me nuts constantly endorsing candidates that support policies that take our jobs and sell us out.

    We constantly complain that companies are not being organized into the Union but the people who prevent it like Hoffa are re-elected.
     
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  19. falconfan

    falconfan Well-Known Member

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    Agree,but the fact of the matter is we would have closed long ago without concessions.I don’t know what barn you work out of but you have to admit lots of the rank and file do half the work they would do if they were working for a non union line.Some sicken me and yet they scream the loudest about a pay raise.
    The pension is screwed and there is lots of blame to go around for that Ponzi scheme.
    We are lumped in with Yellow now and it doesn’t matter who is making the money we are all going to be under the same contract..yes it sucks.
    The debt has gone down over 100 million in the last two years even with paying 90 million in interest and buying new equipment.
    Union corruption and corporate bonuses...no it isn’t right but at the end of the day are we going to shut the doors on a good job because we are pissed?
     
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  20. the5tolls

    the5tolls April 1, 2019.....paybacks are a bitch!

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    I think some of the guys on here should attend bargaining 101 class on here. You ask for the moon and try and negotiate to a tolerable agreement. You do not go on the internet and say were screwed we better take whatever they offer us because companies have closed in the past. If we don't stick together and ask for everything we will never get anything and that's my opinion on the topic. I for one am still not convinced we will ever make it to a vote next year a lot can happen between now and then. Has anyone noticed the bottom just fell out of the freight in the last couple weeks? Has anyone else heard Corporate makes the terminals call them and explain to them if any Amazon pick ups are missed. The rumor I am hearing is that you pick up Amazon and then you worry about other customers, it doesn't matter how big they are or how long they have shipped with us, nobody is as important as Amazon.
     
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