Harrisburg June 20, 2017, 1 P.M.: Right-To-Work Is Wrong Rally

Discussion in 'ABF Freight System' started by slavenomore, May 8, 2017.

  1. SAC75

    SAC75 Well-Known Member

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    Both! You started the name-calling. All I did was say that RTW doesn't do a thing to me. I came to ABF because it's the best. I'm proud to be union. You don't have to force me to pay dues. I believe it keeps my union honest. That's it. You are the one droning on about how I don't go to union meetings. How I don't try to rally the troops. How the guys still here are not good enough. But yet you don't know me or what I do with my hall or if I write my congressman. And you expect to have a reasonable conversation? Get a life! Because apparently I'm not good enough for you "brother".
     
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  2. 00mustang

    00mustang JUST LIVING THE DREAM

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    Yes sir I do know all about those things and some others that were not mentioned. The problem is now the new breed doesn't have any idea of what happened years ago so we have to talk to them and try to influnce them of what it means to be a Teamster, Has it gone down hill sure it has just like the whole country has, would I trade it for something else heck no. My point was everytime you say the Teamsters/union sucks you are saying i SUCK WELL SORRY I DON'T. As I said i'm not a hoffa fan it upsets my local president but he knows that everybody has their right to think for themselves. Maybe I'm blessed with a good local BA'S etc.cause I have expressed my thoughts and never been black balled or called out thats' all everybody stay safe and enjoy life
     
  3. ABFer

    ABFer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Both, Docker.
     
  4. ABFer

    ABFer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    And as I see it this highlights the difference on our feelings about the teamsters. You still believe that we, the members, are the union, we are not, Hoffa and his cronies are and they suck, all the way from the top in DC to the local and joint council in between. I wish that what you say is true but it is not, not in my neighborhood anyway.
     
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  5. ABFer

    ABFer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    And there you go acting like you know me. You don't know the first thing about me, where I've been and what I've done, or do you docker? Yeah, nonunionfool wasn't docker either, was he? It sucks to have your own yard to play in and nobody will come over because you act the way you do. Your smarter than everyone else, better than everyone else and your thoughts and opinions are the only ones that matter, docker. I don't know if or who you might be fooling but it isn't me. Oh, BTW, you're the first one to cry when people trash you when you're not around yet you and your toadie nbaugh openly admit that you're over there talking about me. I'm flattered to have gotten under your skin to that extent, I'm confident that not too many people have the ability to rub you thatta way. What is hard to understand is why you and your toadies even come over here, you have a whole section dedicated to how bad it is over here. Or maybe things are slow in that section too and you need more material.
     
  6. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Well-Known Member

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    About 35 years ago, I was part of a class action NLRB suit against the Teamsters and M&G Convoy/ Ryder Systems. I KNOW I, along with the 15 others, were blackballed,..... I had my life,...... or at least my legs,...... threatened in Jessop Md. when I tried to exercise my seniority option......

    I spent about 9 years as an O/O,.... and when I had a chance to get back in the Teamsters...... same Local that blackballed us....... I vowed I would take notes, speak up, file charges, or do whatever I had to do to make the bas-tarfs honest......

    And they are, today. We have about 10 note-takers in the front row every Union meeting, and we never have to worry about getting a quorum........ We get between 30 - 50 guys every month. Not the best, but pretty good crowd count........

    And so for the last 20 years, Local #30 has been run honestly, and is one of the top 5 solvent Locals on the East coast as far as a war chest goes.

    Not just me,..... but a bunch of guys,.... deciding to run our Local the right way...... No, I'm not an officer, just a steward, and......
    ....... resident gadfly loudmouth........

    It CAN be done,....... but it might take..... oh....20 or 30 years ....
    to straighten out a crooked Local . Lots of work, lots of attention to detail, lots of time.....

    We can't walk away from this problem, because the younger members have never seen it run the right way. We have to teach,.......or it's all gone down the commode.....
     
  7. buffalobill

    buffalobill Well-Known Member

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    It's already gone, you had a lot of shops back then. They have less trucking companies every year now. It seems they like it that way.
     
  8. retired&proud

    retired&proud Banned

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    Who said anything about being good enough for me just be honest with yourself and all I said was that you dont do a thing except to cry and complain. You say that you are proud to be union but I think your actions prove different because supporting RTW is not proud to be union.You may think that you dont have to be forced to pay right now but that will change once you learn just how easy it is to get out of paying dues. Forced dues once a union is voted in keeps you honest. You have to abide by the terms of a contract once it is voted in so why should a union shop be any different. Or do you also think that you shouldnt have to abide by those terms either if you dont agree with them?
     
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  9. retired&proud

    retired&proud Banned

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    The members are the union and Hoffa and his cronies are members as well as you. You are including yourself when you say the Teamsters suck. Youre just not smart enough to realize it.
     
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  10. retired&proud

    retired&proud Banned

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    I dont know you but I know your kind. I dont care if you really think Im him or not but you are fooling yourself if you think I am Docker but you dont do you? You just want to think that by accusing me of being him that you are standing up to him but thats not the case because it means that you are doing nothing but avoiding us both. I wont stand up for him because I think hes capable of doing that all by himself if you ever become man enough to face him but thats between the two of you. You could also just keep using this as a means to get your digs in on Docker because like you say, hes getting his digs on you over there. I dont care either way because we could spend all day talking about what you think about him and what he thinks about you but that isnt getting anything accomplished between the two of us. So do you want to continue talking about him to avoid dealing with me or what?
     
  11. Dick Dastardly

    Dick Dastardly Drat, Double Drat and Triple Drat!

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    Don't forget Ken Hall. That pig talked out of both sides of his mouth when we organized 235 drivers at a single Fedex Freight terminal. Hoffa came out for one photo op and then disappeared. Ken Hall boasted he couldn't wait to sit at the table and personally negotiate our contract.

    After several of us traveled hundreds of miles, spending straight out of our own pockets to travel mind you, to campaign for Ken Hall's Local 175 Fedex terminals we never heard from him again.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017 at 9:21 PM
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  12. SAC75

    SAC75 Well-Known Member

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    Nebraska and Iowa have been RTW for as long as I remember. Don't know anyone not paying their union dues.
    I don't and won't agree with you. That said I'm done talking to you.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017 at 9:55 PM
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  13. Dick Dastardly

    Dick Dastardly Drat, Double Drat and Triple Drat!

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    "Some union officers even say right-to-work helps their recruitment efforts. Gary Casteel, now the UAW secretary-treasurer, said in 2014, when he was in charge of organizing Southern auto plants, “This is something I’ve never understood, that people think right-to-work hurts unions.”

    “To me,” he continued, “it helps them. You don’t have to belong if you don’t want to. So if I go to an organizing drive, I can tell these workers, ‘If you don’t like this arrangement, you don’t have to belong.’ Versus, ‘If we get 50 percent of you, then all of you have to belong, whether you like to or not.’ I don’t even like the way that sounds, because it’s a voluntary system, and if you don’t think the system’s earning its keep, then you don’t have to pay.”

    https://www.mackinac.org/v2016-18


    That's true. I personally used that line when organizing my work place quite often. It was a big selling point to workers on the fence.
     
  14. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Well-Known Member

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    I can see that strategy working,....... but it only works on the disenfranchised and uninformed and the ones who are actively trying to avoid Unions because they think they can get a better personal deal as opposed to collective bargaining.

    I've always said Unions don't get to pick their membership,.... the employers do that for us. I guess under RTW, people who are not whole-heartedly behind the Union ....... for whatever reason....... can weed themselves out.

    Theoretically, this should lead to a much stronger bargaining unit......

    Theoretically.......
     
  15. buffalobill

    buffalobill Well-Known Member

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    The old time unions organized with no help from the gov, you have to ask, what do they need help for if they are effective at what they do?

    What it is, is that lots of unions have shops that are just for easy dues money, that they would lose if rtw went into effect. Look around at some white paper contracts, some are good, others aren't worth paying for.
     
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  16. retired&proud

    retired&proud Banned

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    Nice video. Shows me how mature you are. You dont know anyone not paying their union dues. That says it all right there doesnt it.I dont know anyone illegally in this country either but I know three not paying union dues in RTW states.

    How about the 2006 Sikorsky Aircraft strike where 180 scabs crossed the picket which ended in a poor contract being passed without being endorsed by the union leaders. Over 1400 of the 3500 Teamsters voted against the proposal. That means over 1400 of Teamsters got stuck with a deal they wouldnt accept. They lost so they just had to accept the fact and work under the new contract. Thats over 1400 potential Teamsters that could blame the leaders and become angry enough to quit paying dues by getting a contract rammed down their throats even though it wasnt endorsed by union leaders and the scabs weakened the negotiations. Teamsters Local 1150 still has those 180 names of those scabs listed on the wall of shame on their website today.

    RTW destroys solidarity as you have just proved yourself by saying that you are done with me. A quitter will always be a quitter which RTW provides the means to do so. It also weakens the bargaining power of the negotiators by not having the full support of the membership behind them. You want to use RTW as a means to get the union leaders to do their job. The union leaders tried doing their job with Sikorsky but they didn't succeed because they didn't have the full membership standing behind them so RTW sure won't make that job any better, just worse by having more dissent among the ranks. Elections are the means of getting leaders to do their job and keep out corruption but as you can see that doesn't work seeing how Hoffa got re elected so what makes you think that RTW will be any better? It will end up by having more and more members dropping out until the union will no longer be able to sustain itself. You say and believe that RTW helps the worker by not having to pay the unions mandatory dues if you feel your representatives arent doing their jobs. If RTW was really trying to help the worker they would also be campaigning for not having to pay mandatory taxes if they felt their political representatives werent doing their jobs too but you will never see that happen.

    Most people get wiser with age which I can see by your video that you have alot of growing up to do so I dont expect you to agree or grasp anything I have to say and really dont care for that matter.but Im saying it anyway. I took the time to watch your video that you deemed important so how about taking the time to watch mine?

     
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  17. SAC75

    SAC75 Well-Known Member

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    Iowa has been RTW Sence 1946. Missouri has been union and will be until about 8-1 of this year. Here are the stats.
    http://www.governing.com/gov-data/p...hip-affiliation-by-state-data-statistics.html
    Iowa has a
    10.5% union worker rate and Missouri has a 10.7% so tell me how that proves your point? 1946 and almost identical rates? Must be something wrong with those statistics? I used those states because I worked in both states about equal time
     
  18. retired&proud

    retired&proud Banned

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    RTW gets the help from the government. What help are the unions getting from the government? Do you see the unions campaigning to get the government to pass laws saying that all companies and workers will have to unionize even if the majority disapproves? RTW is hypocrisy at best.

    The only reason why some locals have good white paper contracts is the strength of the local membership.
     
  19. retired&proud

    retired&proud Banned

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    Are you actually showing me your statistics and trying to ask me how to show my point with your statistics?
     
  20. retired&proud

    retired&proud Banned

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    This is how you reply to what I posted here

    How about the 2006 Sikorsky Aircraft strike where 180 scabs crossed the picket which ended in a poor contract being passed without being endorsed by the union leaders. Over 1400 of the 3500 Teamsters voted against the proposal. That means over 1400 of Teamsters got stuck with a deal they wouldnt accept. They lost so they just had to accept the fact and work under the new contract. Thats over 1400 potential Teamsters that could blame the leaders and become angry enough to quit paying dues by getting a contract rammed down their throats even though it wasnt endorsed by union leaders and the scabs weakened the negotiations. Teamsters Local 1150 still has those 180 names of those scabs listed on the wall of shame on their website today.

    RTW destroys solidarity as you have just proved yourself by saying that you are done with me. A quitter will always be a quitter which RTW provides the means to do so. It also weakens the bargaining power of the negotiators by not having the full support of the membership behind them. You want to use RTW as a means to get the union leaders to do their job. The union leaders tried doing their job with Sikorsky but they didn't succeed because they didn't have the full membership standing behind them so RTW sure won't make that job any better, just worse by having more dissent among the ranks. Elections are the means of getting leaders to do their job and keep out corruption but as you can see that doesn't work seeing how Hoffa got re elected so what makes you think that RTW will be any better? It will end up by having more and more members dropping out until the union will no longer be able to sustain itself. You say and believe that RTW helps the worker by not having to pay the unions mandatory dues if you feel your representatives arent doing their jobs. If RTW was really trying to help the worker they would also be campaigning for not having to pay mandatory taxes if they felt their political representatives werent doing their jobs too but you will never see that happen.

    Thats my point. Now tell me how your statistics have any relevance to what I posted? Let alone asking me how your statistics prove my point. Now thats funny. Your video made more sense than this reply.
     
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