Hope for our pensions!

Discussion in 'ABF Freight System' started by SAC75, Jun 18, 2015.

  1. nounionfool

    nounionfool Banned

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    All is forgiven...about what? Just what is it about trollls and accusations of hurt feelings anyway? Only those with low self esteem who strive for that sense of accomplishment boast aboat having the ability to hurt someones feelings. Let me be clear on this since you have a hard time accepting, not understanding true interpretations. I have to actually care about someone before they can hurt my feelings and as of this moment that is not the case so you can save that course of action for your next debate. I believe you put way to much faith in your abilities.Next, you are the one that "interpreted" my comment was stating that you were "ridiculing me". What I said was, "it wan an attempt to ridicule the point that I was trying to get across" with the emphasis being on "attempt" and "point". And another question, why are you so concerned about me wanting to hurt your feelings now? You dont have to keep fretting over that because I am not one that has to go out and hurt feelings in order to feel like I accomplished something.

    Now that we got that out of the way, lets proceed shall we? Why wont you accept the fact what the courts have ruled as the true interpretations for 200 years? Why cant you accept the fact that the courts today should continue to enforce the strict reading and application of the Constitution the way it has been interpreted for the first 200 years? As for you stating that " my interpretation of the First and Second Amendment, it is just that, my interpretIation". Im sorry to inform you that you are dead wrong on that account, that was the courts interpretations for the first 200 years anyway, I like most just happen to agree with them. Tell me, are you one of those who think the Constitution is outdated? The way you rambled on about changing the Constitution so that it would apply to the situations of today made me think that you do. Do you know why the first Ten Amendments are called the Bill of Rights? Do you actually know how many rights we have lost in the last twenty years alone? Why are you so insistent that our God given inalienable rights are now open to interpretation? Or are you now going to argue that the authors of the Constitution couldnt have predicted or even imagined that we wouldnt still have the need to have our rights protected today? Sounds silly, doesnt it? But then again, so do you when you ramble on about my statement about the the strict reading and application of the Constitution. Do you realize, or even care that our children today are being taught that the government gives us our rights? Why do you suppose that is? Well lets see, logic tells us that if the goverment gives you your rights then they can also take them away.

    About my analogy of the robbery, just what in the world were you thinking when you stated that here would be nothing that would need to be "Interpreted" because there would be video evidence? Video evidence, are you serious, just how would video evidence show the inner thoughts of a man that robbed the bank? The robber was stating how he interpreted his actions not how others did but then again, you knew that, but as usual just refused to accept it One would think that you could of come up with something better than video evidence in an attempt to make my analogy sound silly. And before you go off and say my feelings are hurt again by trying to accuse me of saying you called me silly, let me be absolutely clear this time, Im saying that you attempted to call my analagy silly, not me.

    And finally, your statement "A person walks into a Bank with a gun(and presumably a mask) and demands cash..... There is nothing to "interpret" ..The "intent" to commit Robbery would be overwhelmingly obvious". I see that you werent completely oblivious to the point that I was trying to make in my analogy. But guess what, the government starts restricting the peoples speech and gun ownership, there is also nothing to "interpret" in "Freedom of Speech" and the "Right to Keep and Bear Arms" either. The "intent" to strip the people of their God given rights would be overwhelmingly obvious too. But you fail to either recognize or accept this, why?
     
  2. pilot87

    pilot87 Well-Known Member

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    Here's my reply for your Entire Post...: I tried to be as civil and respectful as possible...... and your respond back with this tripe of yours.....You should be seeing a psychiatrist rather than posting on here..... Seriously..


    Uhhhh.... NO.....lets NOT proceed......... You haven't proved worthy of my time....... Now go get yourself some help..... Come back when you can make a coherent point......
     
  3. Muler

    Muler Banned

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    What if one of these masked men came into a bank would they then become robbers? I think not. As you can see it is always important how something is decided.

    1-a swat team member just back from a raid.

    2-A concealed weapon permitted surgeon stopping in on his lunch break to do his banking.

    You see it can be in the eye of the beholder.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
  4. nounionfool

    nounionfool Banned

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    Seriously, tripe, is that the word you use when you become overwhelmed and bewildered? My psychiatrist told me that people sometimes use words like tripe when they cant come up with answers to simple questions. It looks like he was right so maybe I should keep seeing him, what do you think?

    As for your statement, "You haven't proved worthy of my time", what can I say except that it sounds to me that someone seems mighty full of himself. He also told me that those of the conceited variety sometimes used expressions such as the one you just used too. It looks like he was right on both accounts, what do you think?
     
  5. aamandls

    aamandls New Member

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    Well said,Brother
     
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  6. pilot87

    pilot87 Well-Known Member

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    Tripe: "Statements or beliefs that are untrue or make no sense" .........
    Seriously....Yes "Tripe" is the word I used.... "Overwhelmed and bewildered".....[​IMG]....You really have no Clue about me.....lol



    Describes you perfectly......
     
  7. nounionfool

    nounionfool Banned

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    Just remember that those of the conceited variety make a habit of using sentences such as this


    These words are a classic example of what a person full of himself would say. Sorry, your words, not mine.


    Evidently you thought I was worth your valuable time earlier in this thread because you are the one that replied to me first when you butted in with that wisecrack comment of yours. Then several posts later you either couldnt or wouldnt answer my questions so now Im not worth your time, go figure. It didnt go over as well as you planned, did it? By the way, what happened to those long posts? Is it me or did something or someone knock the wind right out of your sails? Is that all you have left, wisecracking one liners?

    And I do feel your pain because it is very disappointing when someone turns out not being what you expected. But in my case it was just opposite, the person ended up not being able to live up to my expectations, not even close. I must say that you were great coming out of the gate though.

    Im no psychic but I would bet that you arent laughing either. So tell me, do I have a clue yet?
     
  8. pilot87

    pilot87 Well-Known Member

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    I only pointed out your conflicting statements....and as I said....I did it with "all due respect" ....It was not "butting in"...this is a public forum and all posts and comments can be replied to..........I guess it goes back to your post about "interpretations".... you "interpreted" my post as a "wisecrack"...with even knowing my "inner most thoughts".....

    I wouldn't.......because of the attitude you took..... If your're actually interested in a real discussion I'd be happy to....but I don't think you are... In my first reply, I gave you the courtesy you asked for and made it a point to answer each of the questions you asked.... Your response didn't even address those answers.......That showed me your not interested in a "conversation".....

    First, I get excoriated by some for making long posts.....then I get slammed for not making long posts....... can't please em all.......

    I was merely trying to refrain from long posts as a consideration to others..... I see you made another "interpretation" .....without knowing my "innermost thoughts".....

    Yes....I was disappointed...I had hoped you'd be more able to engage at a more intellectual level...... If you're interested in actual dialog that's one thing....... If you think your're up to the task..... I'll generously give you another chance...one that I think not many would .....
     
  9. nounionfool

    nounionfool Banned

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    First off, lets get one thing straight, by you saying that you only pointed out my conflicting statements like it was a proven fact. No, you interpreted them as conflicting statements. Thats where your conceitedness and arrogance take over by claiming that your interpretation is the correct one and everything else is just "tripe".

    Let me also point out about your whining that this is a public forum and all posts and comments can be replied to. Once again, your conceitedness and arrogance take over by interpreting my comment of "butting in" as a complaint of you joining in the discussion. That wasnt the fact at all, that comment was made after your comment of "You're clearly not worth my time" and I simply pointed out that I was worth your time because you were the one that initiated the correspondence, not me. But no, your over inflated ego wouldnt let you accept the idea of you making a conflicting statement so you decided to interpret "butting in" as a complaint of joining in on a discussion on a public forum which you and I both know everyone has that right. Just how sad is that? I welcome all replies to my comments, all I ask is dont start crying when it doesnt turn out the way you would of wished for, especially if you initiated it.

    And third, your comment about how I "interpreted" your post as a "wisecrack" without even knowing your "inner most thoughts". Do you even realize just how ridiculous you sound? Tell me, what are my "inner most thoughts"? Then again, with that over inflated ego, you may actually think you know everyones inner most thoughts.

    Fourth, listen to yourself here when you said "because of the attitude I took". Whos in charge of handing out attitudes, you? Again, conceitedness and arrogance rears its ugly head. You say that in your first reply that you gave me courtesy and made it a point to answer each of my questions and my response didn't even address those answers. First, there was "false courtesy" when you tried forcing me to accept your interpretation and views. And I did address those answers but yet again, your conceitedness and arrogance blinded you from seeing them.

    And finally, this whole statement of yours

    You have really outdone yourself here because thats the epitome of conceitedness and arrogance. Thats so kind of you to generously give me another chance, hold on for a moment while I thank my lucky star. By all means, if you wish to continue, lets do so because Im definitely up to the task, are you? But remember, although that superiority complex that you have going on there might make you think that you can dictate the rules and specifics of the debate, lets not fool yourself, theres two of us participating here and its not your usual self and ego either. Lets also just try and keep the crying and whining to a minimum if you get overwhelmed and bewildered again, Ok?
     
  10. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

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    Thank you, Sir.
     
  11. sabresfan

    sabresfan Active Member

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    Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation
    PENSION BENEFIT GUARANTEE CORPORATION
    PROVIDING LIMITED PROTECTION AGAINST PENSION FUND FAILURE

    For years, union organizers have been promising workers that by joining a union, they were guaranteed a secure pension, that their pension plans were financially sound and healthy and in the highly unlikely event that a new member’s pension plan was to fail, they were insured by the federal government.

    In 1974, the Employee Retirement Income Security Act created the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation (PBGC), a federal insurance corporation that is funded by insurance premiums of member plans, investment income and recoveries from failed plan sponsors. Many multiemployer plans are insured by the PBGC which, in turn, will provide some protection to their participants if the plan fails. However, this does not guarantee that a retiree will receive their promised pension.

    The PBGC’s current maximum guarantee is 100% of the first $11 of the plan’s monthly benefit rate plus 75% of the next $33 of the plans monthly benefit rate (combined potential maximum of $35.75) multiplied by the participant’s years of service (which also may be subject to a maximum limit). Further, a retiree’s plan does not have to fail to incur these limitations. If a plan does not have enough assets to pay the plan benefits, it is allowed to suspend payment of that portion of the payment that exceeds the PBGC guarantee level. For the typical worker, this could mean a loss of up to 20% of their monthly pension benefit.

    Since most union pension plan benefit rates are fixed rates, unaffected by annual or semi-annual pay increases, and since most plans do not have a cost of living or inflation adjustment for retirees, any additional reduction in benefits could have drastic effects on fixed-income retirees, who having worked their entire lives, are no longer in a position to effectively make up the difference by returning to the workforce.

    The fact that the PBGC itself exists does not guarantee any specific level of benefit. From 1980 to 2002, the PBGC has operated with a net positive balance. However, since 2003 the PBGC has reported a negative balance of hundreds of millions of dollars each year. In 2007, the difference between its assets and its liabilities was almost a billion dollars. The PBGC has been underfunded each year since 2000 and 2006 it only had 2/3rds of the assets needed to cover its liabilities. In the last three years, the number of multiemployer plans requiring financial assistance from the PBGC increased by 45%. The total amount of financial assistance given during each of the last three years was between 6-18 times over the levels experienced during the preceding five years.

    Also alarming is that the percentage of active participants in PBGC-insured multiemployer plans has dropped from 75.9% in 1980 to 45.3% in 2006, while the percentage of retired participants has almost doubled. Where there used to be more than four active workers for each retiree, today that ratio has dropped to less than 1½. This means that the burden for covering benefits for retirees has changed drastically. In prior years, only 20% of the contribution for each individual worker would go to covering benefits for active retirees. The balance could be used for investments and covering administrative expenses. Today, that figure has jumped to 75%, which, after expenses, leaves less than 1/4th of contributions for active workers to invest for their ultimate retirement.

    This is some info I found for some friends. Just sharing it here.
     
  12. Muler

    Muler Banned

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    And did you research what a driver will get if his employer does not have a plan for his retirement? We will receive a pension one way or another. Others will get nothing. Could you post your links.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
  13. ABFer

    ABFer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Not only that, I do believe that we'd get less under the PBGC than with the programs that are being looked at.
     
  14. Muler

    Muler Banned

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    Is it just me or does people that have no defined plans worry about what we will get more than we do. I swear it is so oblivious that they are jealous.
    We fought for a plan and they didn't and now they want to down everything about our plan. At least we have a fighting chance they DON'T!

    Snakestillthesame can't stand that he has nothing coming. NO BALLS NO GAIN! Like I said keyboard cowboy.
     
  15. ABFer

    ABFer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    No it's not just you it's a whole lot of people out there. When non-union shops we service hear how much our pensions are they really get hot under the collar. Many are brainwashed about how horrible unions are and how they harm our country and our economy. And today's youngsters don't realize how well our highly organized country ran during the 50's and 60's when it was prosperity for all in America, not just the upper echelon.
     
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  16. Muler

    Muler Banned

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    Look who the cry baby is. I make more money than you do and I have a defined pension and you don't. Why would I be the one crying? You have nothing but a desire to have your A$$ spanked in public.

    Here is how I see you from your post. A little shaking guy with no self esteem. You fought for nothing and now you will receive nothing in the form of a pension.

    But you are so jealous of those of us that have earned a defined pension that you keep coming here to try and make it appear all was for not in our case. But the Brothers that know we have something coming see you for what you are. YOUR SEEING A WEAK MAN CRY BROTHER ALWAYS!
     
  17. nounionfool

    nounionfool Banned

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    I think Holyfield said it best, People who make the choice to study, work hard or do whatever they endeavor is to give it the max on themselves to reach to the top level. And you have the people who get envy and jealous, yet are not willing to put that work in, and they want to get the same praise.

    You know what they say, Never trust anyone who wants what you've got. Friend or no, envy is an overwhelming emotion and it seems that songremainsthesame is no exception to the rule.
     
  18. Muler

    Muler Banned

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    You are right. at the non union companies the executives and share holders receive the money that should be going into a retirement for the workers when they can no longer do the job because of age or health. I find no joy seeing them left out in the cold like many come here hoping ill will for us.I
     
  19. Muler

    Muler Banned

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    People have to read all about the plans being presented to congress. There are ways to protect pensions and people are working on them as we speak.
     
  20. Songremainsthesame

    Songremainsthesame Well-Known Member

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    You are so pathetic you can't argue anything without calling names, yelling hate and vitriol and whining that outsiders are invading your precious forum. Who is the insecure little man? Why it's you! Good for you, you're getting a defined pension! What happens to it when you die? It gets reduced. What happens to my investment account? Well, it's my money and when I cash it out it's my cash. I could care less what you get. What does aggravate me is your attitude. You think you're so much better than me and I bet you go to the hall and yell and cry for your "brothers" but you don't care about anyone but yourself. You would step over a "brother" for a nickel.
     

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