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ABF | Hope for our pensions!

sabresfan said:
Good to know. I'm not a fan of taxpayers taking over, bailing out or whatever other term people want to use to take from one and give it to another. If these plans are not going to receive any special treatment other than what people like my in-laws have received than so be it. I'm absolutely not a fan of groups receiving special treatment. Bernie is buying votes in my eyes. If the teamsters/trustees & companies that are still involved with these plans said/did nothing before they were broke or close to it its no one's fault but their own.
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Yes Bernie is buying votes, imo, but that's how it's done anymore. If our currant president can throw millions of dollars at illegal immigration, whose vote do you think his party is buying? Let them throw some of this vote buying money my way.
 
mud said:
Yes Bernie is buying votes, imo, but that's how it's done anymore. If our currant president can throw millions of dollars at illegal immigration, whose vote do you think his party is buying? Let them throw some of this vote buying money my way.
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As long as they throw it at mine and everyone else's retirement accounts then why not.
 
sabresfan said:
I'm not a fan of taxpayers taking over, bailing out or whatever other term people want to use to take from one and give it to another. If these plans are not going to receive any special treatment other than what people like my in-laws have received than so be it. I'm absolutely not a fan of groups receiving special treatment.
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I'm with you on this but there is one problem IMO. Now, let's say we could turn the clock back and pull the bailout money out of the Wall Street Bankers' pockets, along with those Big Three auto manufacturers who flew from Detroit to DC in their corporate jets at $20,000 a pop to beg for money, then I would agree that others' money shouldn't be spent on helping me and my brethren out. Ooops almost forgot about the Federal legislation that helped put us in this mess...you know...that part about how the funds had to distribute all funds over a certain funding level on benefits to the members of the plans instead of stockpiling it for a rainy day, maybe even scraping it off the top and moving into lower risk investments...back when things were really good...then I could agree that we shouldn't be bailed out. But since they already took from the poor to give to the rich I can't go along with this train of thought. In fact I would suppose that this is the kind of thinking that breeds civil war. I'm already an old cantankerous man who is no longer afraid of dying and should I be an older more cantankerous man who was about to be shoved into an undesirable corner due to the aforementioned behavior I might even be incline to participate in civil disobedience. I don't get a good feeling about this whole thing...things in this country are already starting to spin out of control and I only see it getting worse.
 
I'm not disagreeing completely with what others here are saying. These funds should have been brought inline years ago. I have no problems helping out people who only played by the rules and worked hard. I don't see special legislation coming to save my in-laws and other family members in the failing UFCW pension. If laws/rules need amending that's fine. My other concern is for friends like me in the 30's will see nothing from these funds if their in them.
 
a9faninnc said:
By that reasoning,the government should refund my 401 losses,for when the stock market tanked several years ago.I,ve been paying "premiums" for decades,also.I sincerely hope something can be done for the pension issues that you guys have,anything short of a taxpayer bailout.
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What about the money they took in premiums for decades from us. No bailout just the PAYOUT they owe for the insurance we paid for.
 
Muler said:
We paid our premiums directly to the US government. You paid some fund manager to run your fund. BIG DIFFERENCE. We paid for pension insurance to the government. So it would be no bailout just cashing in on the insurance we PAID for.
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It's good to learn new things about a complex issue. What rate of coverage did the plans pay for? 100% 75% 50% of what was agreed to.
 
Muler said:
What about the money they took in premiums for decades from us. No bailout just the PAYOUT they owe for the insurance we paid for.
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Something needs to be done, no doubt. I find it abhorrent that the excess money in these funds wasn't saved for a rainy day. Who operates that way? Common sense even in an individual's finances says to put back in good times because bad always comes around eventually. The one point I will disagree though is that, unless I'm misunderstanding the topic, it was not individual Teamster's money that paid these "premiums". Pension money is the company's money invested on your behalf for your retirement once it's your time to hang it up, right? You didn't pay for it, the company did. They should be the real pissed off ones in all this. It was their money to fund the pensions and pay the guarantee insurance. Now they are pissing away money for employees that might never see the full benefit of their retirement, funding payouts for orphaned retirees and being forced to conduct business in a much more competeitive marketplace, where discounting freight is key to keeping customers. They might not be saints, but these trucking companies are kinda important for all of us to get a paycheck.
 
nounionfool said:
Im sorry but you already backed yourself into that corner when you made the remark "Many people don't get upset because they've abdicated their responsibility as a citizen of this nation to educate themselves so they could understand the issues". They get upset because they did take the time to educate themselves and knew that the mandatory Affordable Care Act was unconstitutional from the get go, not after everyone threw their monkeywrench into what was originally a great idea like you want everyone to believe.
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I believe the Affordable Care Act was ruled Constitutional by the Supreme Court. The case they are reviewing now consists of whether the Federal subsidies are authorized in the original bill. The state subsidies and exchanges using them have already been ruled legal, however......opponents of the Act have found what would normally be a...." typo"......in the wording of the Act . In a ....."normal".....Congress, this would have been fixed by a wording change approved on the floor,....... but in this highly partisan, heavily corporate funded Congress, instead of acting intelligently,........ the majority Party pushed on an essentially minor wording error, in the hopes of ..........throwing one more monkeywrench onto the pile,......all the way to the Supreme Court........ Let's see,.......193 , and counting,...votes to "Defund Obamacare"......... And the Republican party has yet to come up with an alternative other than....." Defund Obamacare "........We all know health care is outrageously priced,......and run by either incompetence or thieves...... But the Republican party,......or the people who have funded the election of most of the Republican party,.... want it to return to the status quo. The only people who profit from that are the employers, ....who can control your healthcare and your acess to it,.......and the insurance companies,..... who want no oversight on what they charge, or how they conduct business. So,.....do we, the people, need health care reform? Why isn't Congress fixing it,....... for the people? " Defunding" is not a fix, especially if you have no other plan. One good thing has come out of Obamacare though. The genie has been let out of the bag as far as competition goes. Do you see all those CAR insurance letters and commercials offering to lower your CAR insurance? I'll bet, in the next few years,....... IF Obamacare stands,...... you"ll start seeing the same with HEALTH insurance.
 
canaryinthemine said:
I believe the Affordable Care Act was ruled Constitutional by the Supreme Court. The case they are reviewing now consists of whether the Federal subsidies are authorized in the original bill. The state subsidies and exchanges using them have already been ruled legal, however......opponents of the Act have found what would normally be a...." typo"......in the wording of the Act . In a ....."normal".....Congress, this would have been fixed by a wording change approved on the floor,....... but in this highly partisan, heavily corporate funded Congress, instead of acting intelligently,........ the majority Party pushed on an essentially minor wording error, in the hopes of ..........throwing one more monkeywrench onto the pile,......all the way to the Supreme Court........ Let's see,.......193 , and counting,...votes to "Defund Obamacare"......... And the Republican party has yet to come up with an alternative other than....." Defund Obamacare "........We all know health care is outrageously priced,......and run by either incompetence or thieves...... But the Republican party,......or the people who have funded the election of most of the Republican party,.... want it to return to the status quo. The only people who profit from that are the employers, ....who can control your healthcare and your acess to it,.......and the insurance companies,..... who want no oversight on what they charge, or how they conduct business. So,.....do we, the people, need health care reform? Why isn't Congress fixing it,....... for the people? " Defunding" is not a fix, especially if you have no other plan. One good thing has come out of Obamacare though. The genie has been let out of the bag as far as competition goes. Do you see all those CAR insurance letters and commercials offering to lower your CAR insurance? I'll bet, in the next few years,....... IF Obamacare stands,...... you"ll start seeing the same with HEALTH insurance.
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What you fail to realize is that this is not about the republican party or democratic party per se. Although you, like so many other devoted and dedicated party members try to make it appear that way in order to pin all the blame on each others respective parties. This is about government corruption, pure and simple. And that includes all politicians, democrats and republicans alike. Those that really "understand the issues" as you like to say realize that both parties are just being exploited by all these corrupt and deceitful politicians. Although its amusing to watch two devoted and dedicated party members from opposite sides bickering back and forth trying to pin the blame on each others party,I have to admit its time to just come out and say that both parties are being played for fools. You say that you are a union steward,then you should know all about how companies(even our leadership) use the divide and conquer algorithm as a tool in getting contracts passed.So why cant you comprehend why Congress wouldnt use that same strategy?

It is the mandate imposed on the Affordable Care Act that is unconstitutional.But you fail to get angry over that,why? Or do you actually believe the ridiculous explanation that Chief Justice Roberts?

He knew that the mandate was unconstitutional when he stated that its not the courts responsibility to consider whether the act embodies sound policies or not and that judgment is entrusted to the nation's elected leaders.But he also knew that he was being relied upon to find a way to make it constitutional. He knew that the mandate couldnt be upheld under the Constitution's Commerce Clause so he upheld it by the government's power to tax.The Constitution's Commerce Clause authorizes Congress to regulate interstate commerce, not to order individuals to engage it.

So if one decides not to engage,the act itself says its a penalty but they ruled it constitutional by applying the penality as a tax. So tell me, how many people that you consider who "understand the issues" know the difference between a penality and a tax?

OH, AND BY THE WAY,

"THE CLAlM AND EXERCISE OF A CONSTITUTIONAL RlGHT CANNOT BE CONVERTED INTO A CRIME." - Miller v U.S., 230 F 2d 486. 489.
 
Muler said:
What about the money they took in premiums for decades from us. No bailout just the PAYOUT they owe for the insurance we paid for.
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Im sure they have them premiums in a bunker under Fort Knox,right next to all the SS that I paid in.Would be nice if it worked that way.
 
Muler said:
I have not heard of one person not getting paid from SS when they get of age have you?
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Not yet they haven't, but I'm 34, I seriously doubt social security will be around for me when it's "my turn". Too much money has been pissed out of the system. I'm footing the bill for folks to retire now and I won't see a dime of return. At least if the pensions go insolvent, it wasn't your money invested. It was the company's.
 
Songremainsthesame said:
Not yet they haven't, but I'm 34, I seriously doubt social security will be around for me when it's "my turn". Too much money has been pissed out of the system. I'm footing the bill for folks to retire now and I won't see a dime of return. At least if the pensions go insolvent, it wasn't your money invested. It was the company's.
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That is not a correct statement about it being the company's money. ALL monies paid into the pension funds are my money that I chose to ear mark for my pension instead of pay raises. I can't for the life of me understand why others can't see that. We could have voted in pay raises instead of a pension decades ago. Make no mistake about it the money is mine not the company's.
 
Muler said:
That is not a correct statement about it being the company's money. ALL monies paid into the pension funds are my money that I chose to ear mark for my pension instead of pay raises. I can't for the life of me understand why others can't see that. We could have voted in pay raises instead of a pension decades ago. Make no mistake about it the money is mine not the company's.
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I disagree. If it was not paid to you as wages and then deducted from YOUR paycheck as an investment, then it wasn't your money. You voted in pay raises through the years as well, so that argument holds no water.
 
canaryinthemine said:
I believe the Affordable Care Act was ruled Constitutional by the Supreme Court. The case they are reviewing now consists of whether the Federal subsidies are authorized in the original bill. The state subsidies and exchanges using them have already been ruled legal, however......opponents of the Act have found what would normally be a...." typo"......in the wording of the Act . In a ....."normal".....Congress, this would have been fixed by a wording change approved on the floor,....... but in this highly partisan, heavily corporate funded Congress, instead of acting intelligently,........ the majority Party pushed on an essentially minor wording error, in the hopes of ..........throwing one more monkeywrench onto the pile,......all the way to the Supreme Court........ Let's see,.......193 , and counting,...votes to "Defund Obamacare"......... And the Republican party has yet to come up with an alternative other than....." Defund Obamacare "........We all know health care is outrageously priced,......and run by either incompetence or thieves...... But the Republican party,......or the people who have funded the election of most of the Republican party,.... want it to return to the status quo. The only people who profit from that are the employers, ....who can control your healthcare and your acess to it,.......and the insurance companies,..... who want no oversight on what they charge, or how they conduct business. So,.....do we, the people, need health care reform? Why isn't Congress fixing it,....... for the people? " Defunding" is not a fix, especially if you have no other plan. One good thing has come out of Obamacare though. The genie has been let out of the bag as far as competition goes. Do you see all those CAR insurance letters and commercials offering to lower your CAR insurance? I'll bet, in the next few years,....... IF Obamacare stands,...... you"ll start seeing the same with HEALTH insurance.
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The reason it's not just a typo is because Jonathan Gruber, one of the architechs of Obamacare has stated that they lied about the state exchanges to fool the stupid American public. You can't call that a typo.
 
Songremainsthesame said:
I disagree. If it was not paid to you as wages and then deducted from YOUR paycheck as an investment, then it wasn't your money. You voted in pay raises through the years as well, so that argument holds no water.
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Your just trying to fight. Our contract has specific dollar amounts that get put into our pension funds. It's part of our wages. So dense!
 
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