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vongrimmenstein

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Driver is running up against his 16 hour window. Relief driver is bringing a pick up to him. A company pick-up is under the 10,000 lb rating so a CDL is not required to operate it. If he drives the pick-up past his 16th hour is he Legal to drive or not? How would you log that?von.
 
vongrimmenstein said:
Driver is running up against his 16 hour window. Relief driver is bringing a pick up to him. A company pick-up is under the 10,000 lb rating so a CDL is not required to operate it. If he drives the pick-up past his 16th hour is he Legal to drive or not? How would you log that?von.
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He is illegal and he and the company can be fined. If the company is looking the other way it is just a matter of time. I guarantee they won't remember your name. You will not be remembered as a driver that went the extra mile. You log it you are in violation period...
It is your responsibility to figure your time and contact central or home terminal if you can't make the run before you are in violation...
It also doesn't matter if its 10,000 or 5 pounds...
 
All paid for time has to be logged as on duty. (either driving or not driving) That being said, my understanding is if you go on the dock after your 14 (or 16) hours you can work as long as you want, as long as you have 10 hours off before you drive again. However, I don't believe you can drive anything on the street once you are out of time, barring an emergency.
 
grovercxl said:
All paid for time has to be logged as on duty. (either driving or not driving) That being said, my understanding is if you go on the dock after your 14 (or 16) hours you can work as long as you want, as long as you have 10 hours off before you drive again. However, I don't believe you can drive anything on the street once you are out of time, barring an emergency.
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True & accurate. But the first question is tricky. I researched what is a CMV, and as long as the pick-up wasn't pulling a trailer with both vehicles having a total GVWR of more than 10,000 lb then he was legal to drive. The pick-up by itself with a GVWR rating less than 10,000 lb does not meet the definition of a CMV. So I say he was legal to drive the pick-up back to the terminal. I would log it on duty not driving, but I would note returning to the terminal in a pick-up & not a CMV. My position is based on the type of vehicle being driven. If he came back on a moped would you show it as driving? The HOS only take effect when you get behind the controls of a CMV. I ask for more input here for this is not an easy question. And, this really did happen yesterday with one of our drivers. Thank. Von.
 
vongrimmenstein said:
True & accurate. But the first question is tricky. I researched what is a CMV, and as long as the pick-up wasn't pulling a trailer with both vehicles having a total GVWR of more than 10,000 lb then he was legal to drive. The pick-up by itself with a GVWR rating less than 10,000 lb does not meet the definition of a CMV. So I say he was legal to drive the pick-up back to the terminal. I would log it on duty not driving, but I would note returning to the terminal in a pick-up & not a CMV. My position is based on the type of vehicle being driven. If he came back on a moped would you show it as driving? The HOS only take effect when you get behind the controls of a CMV. I ask for more input here for this is not an easy question. And, this really did happen yesterday with one of our drivers. Thank. Von.
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Wouldn't driving the p/u be considered a safety sensitive duty?
 
vongrimmenstein said:
The pick-up by itself with a GVWR rating less than 10,000 lb does not meet the definition of a CMV. So I say he was legal to drive the pick-up back to the terminal.
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I would agree with this one.
joes bar and grill said:
Wouldn't driving the p/u be considered a safety sensitive duty?
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:shrug: Probably not under the CMV laws.

Besides, what are the chances of it ever really getting anyone's attention?
 
Once again, not all paid time has to be logged on duty. Your employer may relieve you of duty while you wait and still elect to pay you. This time can be logged off duty. The FMCSA is not concerned has to weather you're paid for your time or not has long has you're logging your time the right way. This is from the FMCSA website. It only takes a short Google search to find the right info....

Pay is not a determining factor in whether a driver is on duty or off duty. The driver’s activity is what determines whether the driver should be logging on or off duty. If the driver is not relieved of all responsibilities, does work along the way, has a laden vehicle, or is repositioning equipment, the driver cannot claim the time is personal conveyance and the trip must be logged as on-duty and/or driving.

The only time pay is an issue when it comes to logging is if payroll records can prove that the driver was on duty. An example of this is paying a driver for loading or unloading. If the driver was specifically paid to load or unload, then the driver should have logged the time as on-duty time.
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Driving a pickup is considered on duty, not driving because it is under 10,000 lbs. I have been on road calls with a service truck working accidents & breakdowns when I went over 15 hours. I am not required to log any of the hours because the vehicle is not over 10,000 lbs. However when I am on duty & not driving a CMV I am required to log that time as on duty if I go out in a truck over 10,000 lbs. later on my shift. A dockworker can start his tour of duty on the dock & then finish his tour driving or he can start his tour driving & then work the dock unlimited hours. He will have to have 10 hours off duty after that to legally drive again.
A city driver is not required to log hours if he is within limits of his domicile unless he goes over 11 hours. He is then required to log that as on duty driving even it he is within limits of his domicile. A clock punch of time tour of duty started is acceptable proof if there is a question of hours on duty.
 
An exception to this would be if the carrier relieved you of all duty and you drove said vehicle be it pick up or bobtail to your house and was followed by 10 hrs off duty, and are not dispatched from your house, your travel time could be logged off duty.
 
Well I'm sure you have the same resources has many of us here have. A quick Google search at FMCSA.com should put your mind at ease on this area of the law. You can find it under "travel time"....
 
grovercxl said:
All paid for time has to be logged as on duty. (either driving or not driving) That being said, my understanding is if you go on the dock after your 14 (or 16) hours you can work as long as you want, as long as you have 10 hours off before you drive again. However, I don't believe you can drive anything on the street once you are out of time, barring an emergency.
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So you could theoretically drive 16 hours pedaling freight with a tractor trailer, then load a skid on the pickup and go deliver that with no limit on hours worked?
Edit:
I bring this up because at a previous employer we had some rental vans to do some school deliveries/pickups and one Friday night as I am approaching my 60 hours the supervisor tells me that he could force me out in one of those vans because they don't meet the definition of a cmv and thus the hos don't apply.
 
I would still be concerned with the issue of liability. If you were involved in an accident with injuries or heaven forbid a fatality you might find yourself thrown under the proverbial bus!
 
grovercxl said:
I would still be concerned with the issue of liability. If you were involved in an accident with injuries or heaven forbid a fatality you might find yourself thrown under the proverbial bus!
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Oh yeah that would be an ambulance chasers wet dream. Just try and say you aren't fatigued after 18 hours.
 
If it falls under the guidelines of the FMCSA rules and is within the law, what grounds would they have to sue? Like anyone really needs a reason these days... Lol
 
Boilerpeddle said:
So you could theoretically drive 16 hours pedaling freight with a tractor trailer, then load a skid on the pickup and go deliver that with no limit on hours worked?
Edit:
I bring this up because at a previous employer we had some rental vans to do some school deliveries/pickups and one Friday night as I am approaching my 60 hours the supervisor tells me that he could force me out in one of those vans because they don't meet the definition of a cmv and thus the hos don't apply.
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From the way I'm reading the rules, he may be right. Because the vehicle is under 10001 pounds it's not considered has a cmv. Under the rules though any hours worked would still have to be logged has on duty not driving and you would not be allowed back into a CMV until you're back under 60 hours....
 
Boilerpeddle said:
Negligence. You and or your company could reasonably be aware of a dangerous situation and do nothing or actually promote the situation.
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But that would have nothing to do with violating the FMCSA. You could be legal and still be negligent. Hell, that could happen after 2 hrs of driving....
 
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