TForce | How do I get out of the union??

[Mr Scuzbag]

I..........,hereby authorize my employer to deduct from may wages each month (UPSF is weekly) an amount equal to the monthly dues, initiation fees and uniform assessments of Local Union XXX, and direct such amounts so deducted to be turned over each month to the Secretary-Treasurer of such Local Union for and on my behalf.

This authorization is voluntary and is not conditioned on my present or future membership in the Union.

This authorization and assignment shall be irrevocable for the term of the applicable contract between the Union and the employer or for one year, whichever is the lesser, and shall automatically renew itself for successive yearly or applicable contract periods thereafter, whichever is lesser, unless I give written notice to the company and the Union at least sixty (60_)days, but not more than seventy-five (75) days before any periodic renewal date of this authorization and assignment of my desire to revoke same.
Signed..........


........KK....

If anyone who resigns from union membership has a dues checkoff authorization form still in effect with their employer, obviously, they should give the employer's payroll department a heads-up that they have resigned.

A voluntary instruction to Payroll, such as the one you quote, can be revoked at any time with a note to Payroll regardless of any restrictive clauses in the form's language. You always have Freedom of Association and freedom to cancel a voluntary contract at any time. This is America after all, as the July 4th Holiday just reminded us. Such restrictive language is nul and void, and is non-enforceable when ever it conflicts with The Law.

It's just like the "closed shop" language in some collective bargaining agreements. The clause is unenforceable to the extent that it conflicts with Labor Law. The Law always trumps any private rules you may establish. Ask your Local BA and Officers. They'll tell you. They have to obey The Law or they'll be in big trouble.

It's like resigning from you job, or revoking your weekly United Way payroll deduction. You can do so at any time.

 

[Crazy Horse]

If anyone who resigns from union membership has a dues checkoff authorization form still in effect with their employer, obviously, they should give the employer's payroll department a heads-up that they have resigned.

A voluntary instruction to Payroll, such as the one you quote, can be revoked at any time with a note to Payroll regardless of any restrictive clauses in the form's language. You always have Freedom of Association and freedom to cancel a voluntary contract at any time. This is America after all, as the July 4th Holiday just reminded us. Such restrictive language is nul and void, and is non-enforceable when ever it conflicts with The Law.

It's just like the "closed shop" language in some collective bargaining agreements. The clause is unenforceable to the extent that it conflicts with Labor Law. The Law always trumps any private rules you may establish. Ask your Local BA and Officers. They'll tell you. They have to obey The Law or they'll be in big trouble.

It's like resigning from you job, or revoking your weekly United Way payroll deduction. You can do so at any time.

Yeah right! And a non(dues paying)-member will also get the same representation from your local involving union matters as a dues paying member. It's the law after all. I am sure those panel members of the grievance panel, who are union reps will be very friendly to a free-loader.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Simple, just quit stupid.

Who's stupid. If you think everyone needs to see things your way, well then you see stupidity every morning in the mirror. you live a shallow existence.

 

[Mr Scuzbag]

Yeah right! And a non(dues paying)-member will also get the same representation from your local involving union matters as a dues paying member. It's the law after all. I am sure those panel members of the grievance panel, who are union reps will be very friendly to a free-loader.

Laugh all you want. In my Local (the entire Local, not just the UPS bargaining unit) we don't have any Agency Fee Payers. We don't have any non-members. Everyone's a dues paying member. I've been a dues paying member of Teamsters Local 42 in Lynn, Ma. since 1973. I currently pay $84 a month. What's the situation in your Local?

And why feel so good about Teamster officials just half-heartedly going through the motions to represent a fellow worker, even to the point of violating the "Duty of Fair Representation" Law? That's the last thing potential members and the public need to hear.

 

[Kennesaw Kid]

If anyone who resigns from union membership has a dues checkoff authorization form still in effect with their employer, obviously, they should give the employer's payroll department a heads-up that they have resigned.

A voluntary instruction to Payroll, such as the one you quote, can be revoked at any time with a note to Payroll regardless of any restrictive clauses in the form's language. You always have Freedom of Association and freedom to cancel a voluntary contract at any time. This is America after all, as the July 4th Holiday just reminded us. Such restrictive language is nul and void, and is non-enforceable when ever it conflicts with The Law.

It's just like the "closed shop" language in some collective bargaining agreements. The clause is unenforceable to the extent that it conflicts with Labor Law. The Law always trumps any private rules you may establish. Ask your Local BA and Officers. They'll tell you. They have to obey The Law or they'll be in big trouble.

It's like resigning from you job, or revoking your weekly United Way payroll deduction. You can do so at any time.

Once again you are mistaken....the Employer agreed to dues check off in The Contract....they are OBLIGATED to deduct dues from your check as long as your check off authorization is in effect. The Local Union bills the Employer for your dues...and if you have any wages for that week it will be deducted. You have to follow the guidelines on the check off agreement and the Employer knows that and cannot just stop it at your request. The NLRB has upheld this many, many, many times....it has been around since 1937 ya know.....KK:smilie_132:

 

[accelerator]

I..........,hereby authorize my employer to deduct from may wages each month (UPSF is weekly) an amount equal to the monthly dues, initiation fees and uniform assessments of Local Union XXX, and direct such amounts so deducted to be turned over each month to the Secretary-Treasurer of such Local Union for and on my behalf.

This authorization is voluntary and is not conditioned on my present or future membership in the Union.

This authorization and assignment shall be irrevocable for the term of the applicable contract between the Union and the employer or for one year, whichever is the lesser, and shall automatically renew itself for successive yearly or applicable contract periods thereafter, whichever is lesser, unless I give written notice to the company and the Union at least sixty (60_)days, but not more than seventy-five (75) days before any periodic renewal date of this authorization and assignment of my desire to revoke same.
Signed..........


........KK....

KK, You mentioned in this post that UPSF pays dues weekly to the union, does the local determine wether dues will be paid monthly or weekly? I seem to get hit once a month for $60.00. Just curious, thanx in advance.

 

[Skeeter]

After not being impressed with the union contract and the way the union has represented our terminal, how do I get out?? I am not paying $60
dollars a month to get treated worse than before we had anything. Now if we had a NMFA, or something close, I would be happy to pay my dues.
I asked the one of the stewards and they were less than helpful. Funny, they were so quick to sign people up, but not quick to help a guy leave the union.
I guess I could call the hall, I just have not had time yet.

No the best way is to quit and get a nonunion. I was 100% on Overnite's side back in the day. Remember Overnite never became union. But this is UPS you are complaining they are not working fast enough. Well I look at it this way. What would it be like on the highways not to have cops. What would it be like at UPS not to have the union.
We have got to give it time, time, time.
How much, and how much time is enough.
I don't know but I don't think we are there yet.

 

[Mr Scuzbag]

Once again you are mistaken....the Employer agreed to dues check off in The Contract....they are OBLIGATED to deduct dues from your check as long as your check off authorization is in effect. The Local Union bills the Employer for your dues...and if you have any wages for that week it will be deducted. You have to follow the guidelines on the check off agreement and the Employer knows that and cannot just stop it at your request. The NLRB has upheld this many, many, many times....it has been around since 1937 ya know.....KK:smilie_132:

If an employer signs a contract and agrees to a dues checkoff arrangement, that arangement only applies to the willing, not employees who resigned their membership, or employees who never joined the union in the first place. The contract may allow a dues checkoff arrangement, but it takes a voluntarily signed authorization card from each employee to actually authorize the payroll deduction.

Besides, no one is obligated to pay dues by payroll checkoff. Even a willing dues-paying member may pay his dues in person at the Hall, or by personal check through the mail each month if he chooses. Same with agency fee payers.

The only time an employer can deduct money from your paycheck (other than government mandated taxes, Social Security, Medicare etc.) without your permission is when directed by a court order.

Where on earth did you get the idea that an employee is obligated to pay dues to an organization to which he does not belong? Do you pay dues to the Flat Earth Society or Alimony to Paris Hilton. If they sent a bill to your employer would you mind if your employer paid the bill out of your paycheck? If you subscribed to a magazine and then canceled or declined to renew, would you pay for future issues that you did not order. If you authorized United Way deductions and then changed you mind and withdrew your authorization, would you mind if your employer kept deducting future contributions anyway?

Why don't you post those alleged NLRB ruleings? Remember, we're talking about involuntary dues deductions, not voluntary dues deductions.

 

[Kennesaw Kid]

KK, You mentioned in this post that UPSF pays dues weekly to the union, does the local determine wether dues will be paid monthly or weekly? I seem to get hit once a month for $60.00. Just curious, thanx in advance.

Look in the contract and you will see that they will accept a weekly deduction on UPSF....maybe your local might be set up to do so....it does make it easier on book keeper though....KK

 

[Kennesaw Kid]

If an employer signs a contract and agrees to a dues checkoff arrangement, that arangement only applies to the willing, not employees who resigned their membership, or employees who never joined the union in the first place. The contract may allow a dues checkoff arrangement, but it takes a voluntarily signed authorization card from each employee to actually authorize the payroll deduction.

Besides, no one is obligated to pay dues by payroll checkoff. Even a willing dues-paying member may pay his dues in person at the Hall, or by personal check through the mail each month if he chooses. Same with agency fee payers.

The only time an employer can deduct money from your paycheck (other than government mandated taxes, Social Security, Medicare etc.) without your permission is when directed by a court order.

Where on earth did you get the idea that an employee is obligated to pay dues to an organization to which he does not belong? Do you pay dues to the Flat Earth Society or Alimony to Paris Hilton. If they sent a bill to your employer would you mind if your employer paid the bill out of your paycheck? If you subscribed to a magazine and then canceled or declined to renew, would you pay for future issues that you did not order. If you authorized United Way deductions and then changed you mind and withdrew your authorization, would you mind if your employer kept deducting future contributions anyway?

Why don't you post those alleged NLRB ruleings? Remember, we're talking about involuntary dues deductions, not voluntary dues deductions.

You keep twisting this thing around....IF YOU SIGNED a membership application...YOU are obligated to pay your dues if you signed the check off card....PLAIN AND SIMPLE....if you want to get out of being a union member (WHY?)....then you must infor the company and Union...BUT....you must be in the time frame that I earler posted for you...or you will have to wait until the next time comes around....THEN, the UNION INFORMS the company not to take dues out of your pay check....not the other way around!

I have won this decession many times at NLRB Region 10....I am well versed on the ruling....I only post facts....not twisted tales....KK:smilie_132:

 

[Mr Scuzbag]

So give us the NLRB Case Numbers so we can all look 'em up online.

The Authorization Form language you posted earlier specifically states that it is a voluntary authorization. Anything voluntary can be revoked at any time. It's exactly like a United Way payroll deduction.

It also states it is in effect for only a year and can be revoked at the end of the year, or any subsequent year. So even by your logic, the involuntary dues-payer is only a few months away from stopping dues from being taken out of his check.

But I still say holding someone to a voluntary obligation longer that they wish to be obligated is unenforceable. If your wife promissed to stay married to you "until death do us part," and then changes her mind and announces she is now leaving you, you can not stop her. If you do, you will be jailed for kidnapping, and possibly other crimes. The voluntary mariage vow is not legally enforceable.

Usually if a union (or anyone for that mater) is trying to collect money from someone who doesn't want to pay (for whatever reason) they have to take them to court. (Not to the NLRB.) Even then, actually collecting is another matter. Just look at all the alimony and child support that goes unpaid and uncollected.

 

[UPS Teamster]

Usually if a union (or anyone for that mater) is trying to collect money from someone who doesn't want to pay (for whatever reason) they have to take them to court. (Not to the NLRB.) Even then, actually collecting is another matter. Just look at all the alimony and child support that goes unpaid and uncollected.

So let me get this right you think this would be better handled by child services .In my mind seems since this is a labor issue it might be better handed by THE NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD. what a joke

 

[accelerator]

So give us the NLRB Case Numbers so we can all look 'em up online.

The Authorization Form language you posted earlier specifically states that it is a voluntary authorization. Anything voluntary can be revoked at any time. It's exactly like a United Way payroll deduction.

It also states it is in effect for only a year and can be revoked at the end of the year, or any subsequent year. So even by your logic, the involuntary dues-payer is only a few months away from stopping dues from being taken out of his check.

But I still say holding someone to a voluntary obligation longer that they wish to be obligated is unenforceable. If your wife promissed to stay married to you "until death do us part," and then changes her mind and announces she is now leaving you, you can not stop her. If you do, you will be jailed for kidnapping, and possibly other crimes. The voluntary mariage vow is not legally enforceable.

Usually if a union (or anyone for that mater) is trying to collect money from someone who doesn't want to pay (for whatever reason) they have to take them to court. (Not to the NLRB.) Even then, actually collecting is another matter. Just look at all the alimony and child support that goes unpaid and uncollected.

Can I be required to be a union member or pay dues to a union? | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation This link provided will take you to a site that may take the spin off what you are saying.

You can actually be a nonmember in a non right to work state, but you are infact required to pay the union's costs of collective bargaining, contract administration, and grievance adjustment.

It is up to you too find out what these costs are. After visiting the hall on the day we took the oath, My " Brothers" were more then happy to provide us with paraphanalia that described what the dues paid for, and in addition, anything above and beyond the dues,( the drive program, or anything affiliated with any " VOLUNTARY"member funded political venture) was a sheet above and beyond Dues.

Wages can be garnished for childsupport, so can dues, unless thirty percent or more want to have a Deauthorization election, which is the act of taking the "union security clause" out of the contract in a non right to work state.

This link provided will give you the info you need.
Deauthorization Election | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

Allthough I do not believe in what Right to work stands for, I do believe what KK is saying can be found in these two links.:smilie_132: Provided by the "ENEMY".

 

[Mr Scuzbag]

. . . You can actually be a nonmember in a non right to work state, but you are infact required to pay the union's costs of collective bargaining, contract administration, and grievance adjustment. . . .

Accelerator, this is what I've been saying! In a non-Right-To-Work state, a non-member must pay an Agency Fee. Usually an amount somewhat less that the dues rate.

. . . Wages can be garnished for childsupport, so can dues . . .

If a person legally owes child support or dues or any other debt, the debt can be garnished. That doesn't mean you can garnish someone's wages who doesn't owe child support or dues or any other debt.

I've been to the NRTW site before. I'll revisit it when I have time.

This subject is complicated because different rules apply to union members vs non-members; voluntary vs mandatory obligations; Right-To-Work states vs non-Right-To-Work states; enforceable vs un-enforceable promises. Please try to keep straight which situation I am talking about when I make a specific point. Don't take what I say in one context and apply it in another.

 

[Mr Scuzbag]

So let me get this right you think this would be better handled by child services .In my mind seems since this is a labor issue it might be better handed by THE NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD. what a joke

When someone owes you money and won't pay, you must take him to Court.

When someone ( usually an employer or union) commits an Unfair Labor Practice, you file and ULP charge with the nearest NLRB office.

What specific Unfair Labor Practice charge are you recommending be filed with the NLRB?

 

[Mr Scuzbag]

You can search the NLRB's databases for various cases at their website:
Regional Office Cases

 

[accelerator]

Accelerator, this is what I've been saying! In a non-Right-To-Work state, a non-member must pay an Agency Fee. Usually an amount somewhat less that the dues rate.



If a person legally owes child support or dues or any other debt, the debt can be garnished. That doesn't mean you can garnish someone's wages who doesn't owe child support or dues or any other debt.

I've been to the NRTW site before. I'll revisit it when I have time.

This subject is complicated because different rules apply to union members vs non-members; voluntary vs mandatory obligations; Right-To-Work states vs non-Right-To-Work states; enforceable vs un-enforceable promises. Please try to keep straight which situation I am talking about when I make a specific point. Don't take what I say in one context and apply it in another.

I am not taking any text any certain way. All I said is, what KK is saying is what is printed, and published both on paper as well as the internet. I am not twisting anything. Niether is KK.

But to make a comparison between "Dues" and the "United Way" without mistake is not camparing apples to apples. And tells me you could be suffering from a mild case of euphoria.

In a non right to work state a person must, and is obligated ,to pay dues, this is not voluntary. What is "voluntary" is the method in which you choose to pay, payroll deduction as opposed to paying in check, cash or money order,and certainly cannot be compared to child support, after all, you cannot run, we know where you work.

You certainly cannnot compare the wife with dues, I would rather pay dues.

First of all (and I am not saying you are of coarse) anyone who argues not paying dues for any reason considering the position they are in to begin with is foolish, the amount is very little in comparison to the benefit one could recieve if infact a ruling came in your favor.

 

[accelerator]

Accelerator, this is what I've been saying! In a non-Right-To-Work state, a non-member must pay an Agency Fee. Usually an amount somewhat less that the dues rate.



If a person legally owes child support or dues or any other debt, the debt can be garnished. That doesn't mean you can garnish someone's wages who doesn't owe child support or dues or any other debt.

I've been to the NRTW site before. I'll revisit it when I have time.

This subject is complicated because different rules apply to union members vs non-members; voluntary vs mandatory obligations; Right-To-Work states vs non-Right-To-Work states; enforceable vs un-enforceable promises. Please try to keep straight which situation I am talking about when I make a specific point. Don't take what I say in one context and apply it in another.

Also, I do not find this debate of reason to be complicated, if the terminal in which you work resides in a "non right to work state", and you are obligated to pay dues under the laws of the governing state, as well as the NLRB laws, you owe dues. it is just that simple.

How can this be construed as anything different then what I have just said.

What is unenforceable is any hidden costs within dues that is above and beyond what I have mentioned in my previous post,

" collective bargaining, contract administration, and grievance adjustment."

If the dues you owe is comprised as such, then how does one feel they are paying for more, particularly when the hall breaks this down for you.

I realize what you are saying, but you are going off on a tangent. I also think KK was defending this same position.

 

[Mr Scuzbag]

Everyone should visit the website Accelerator cited to get the straight info for most private sector employees from someone other than myself. (Federal Express and government employees have slightly different rules.) Although the National Right To Work site is anti-union, they are accurate when stating what The Law is. The 600 or so Teamster Secretary-Treasurers must follow The Law, regardless of wheather you or I or they agree with it or not.
Can I be required to be a union member or pay dues to a union? | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

You can also view (and save) the IBT Constitution here:
http://www.teamster.org/about/const/constitution_June2006.pdf
[1,855kb PDF file. 240 pages. Give it time to load.]
Look up "dues" or "withdrawal card" or anything else, in the index in the back, and see the official Teamster statement on the matter.

Article 27, for example, makes it clear that the IBT Constitution is not to be interpreted as violating any applicable law:

Article XXVII -- SAVING CLAUSES
Section 1. The provisions of this Constitution relating to the payment of dues, assessments, fines, or penalties, etc., shall not be construed as incorporating into any union-security contract those requirements for good standing membership which may be in violation of applicable law, nor shall they be construed as requiring any employer to violate any applicable law. . . .

Georgia, where the Kennesaw Kid is from, is one of 22 Right-To-Work states, surrounded on all sides by other Right-To-Work states. Its Right-To-Work Law is available here:
Right to Work States: Georgia | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

Accelerator, non-members in a bargaining unit in non-RTW states do not pay "dues." Only union members pay "dues." Non-members pay an "agency fee" which is usually somewhat less than the dues rate.

 

[Kennesaw Kid]

Everyone should visit the website Accelerator cited to get the straight info for most private sector employees from someone other than myself. (Federal Express and government employees have slightly different rules.) Although the National Right To Work site is anti-union, they are accurate when stating what The Law is. The 600 or so Teamster Secretary-Treasurers must follow The Law, regardless of wheather you or I or they agree with it or not.
Can I be required to be a union member or pay dues to a union? | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

You can also view (and save) the IBT Constitution here:
http://www.teamster.org/about/const/constitution_June2006.pdf
[1,855kb PDF file. 240 pages. Give it time to load.]
Look up "dues" or "withdrawal card" or anything else, in the index in the back, and see the official Teamster statement on the matter.

Article 27, for example, makes it clear that the IBT Constitution is not to be interpreted as violating any applicable law:


Georgia, where the Kennesaw Kid is from, is one of 22 Right-To-Work states, surrounded on all sides by other Right-To-Work states. Its Right-To-Work Law is available here:
Right to Work States: Georgia | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

Accelerator, non-members in a bargaining unit in non-RTW states do not pay "dues." Only union members pay "dues." Non-members pay an "agency fee" which is usually somewhat less than the dues rate.

Scuzbag....

I know the Georgia law quite well....as I am one of those 600 Secretary-Treasurers that you mentioned.

Also as I informed you at the beginning of this thread....you can resign your membership at ANYTIME in Georgia...BUT..it is the legally binding contract for dues check off that requires you to continue dues check off until you reach your LEGAL obligation to do so....per NLRB Ruling on Case # 10-CB-8702....which I won.

I hope this ends this thread and clears up any mis-understanding.....KK