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car/abf lifer

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Senior workers should be given the opportunity to take early retirement. This plan will benefit the workers, teamsters and company by offering a buy out of any worker who has five to six weeks vacation. The company could then hire new workers at lower pay who have been layed off from other union companies. This would save the company money and avoid pay cuts. The union would benefit by the new workers paying into the pension.
 
The more that retire the more drain on the pension. The older workers pay the same into the pension as new workers. Your thinking is correct that new hires are paid less & naturally have less vacation. I know some who are waiting on the contract to retire to see what the pension fund will receive under the new contract.
 
The cost of investment to get a driver to retire would be prohibitive as I see it. And I agree with DCM that a flood of retirees would not benefit the pension fund. I like it when I see a guy who wants to die in his truck and preserve that pension for me so I can get out ASAP.

As for guys waiting for the contract to see what's in their pension for them, that cracks me up for two reasons:
1) Contracts do no change a defined benefit plan's distribution rate.
2) If more money is contributed to our pension it is never an earth moving amount and it takes quite a few years for that increase to make any sizable increase for the retiree. I'm good with their intentions though, every dollar they don't collect is one that I can.
 
One other point, Brother Car/ABF Lifer......there really isn't a large pool of drivers who are qualified to get hired. If your idea was implemented,...I would imagine about 80 to 90% of the applicants would come from non-Union LTL carriers,...or our brothers from YRC, looking to get back to full rated pay and pension. Processing this bunch would proceed nowhere near as fast as the attrition rate of drivers leaving ABF under your buyout plan if it was done company-wide and across the board. Don't forget....the average age of a driver with a CDL-A, HAZ-MAT, Doubles-Triples, Tanker...is 55. Mass exodus in many terminals....with no way to quickly replace the departed employees....which, in turn would wreak mass confusion across the entire industry, as non-Union, and YRC, and laid-off guys getting a call-back, will all be "adjusting" their employment at the same time. There has never been an "apprentice"...or training program to provide a steady stream of minimally qualified drivers to the LTL industry. For the past 20 years, every carrier waited for the next LTL carrier to go out of business....and that was their trained new-hire pool to hire out of. That really doesn't exist anymore, and LTL drivers are getting kind of scarce. ABF will offer a contract that will keep ALL of us,...either economically or otherwise...in the industry for as long as they can keep us. They want us to retire one at a time...not in a group. Too hard to replace the group......all at once.
 
While I agree with a lot of what you say there, canaryinthemine, if and I say IF we end up with a good contract I do believe that there is still a pool of good drivers out there at YRC and that ABF could selectively siphon off the best of them. I know that we have one or two already approved for hire at my shop, and maybe some that I don't know about.
 
ABFer said:
The cost of investment to get a driver to retire would be prohibitive as I see it. And I agree with DCM that a flood of retirees would not benefit the pension fund. I like it when I see a guy who wants to die in his truck and preserve that pension for me so I can get out ASAP.

As for guys waiting for the contract to see what's in their pension for them, that cracks me up for two reasons:
1) Contracts do no change a defined benefit plan's distribution rate.
2) If more money is contributed to our pension it is never an earth moving amount and it takes quite a few years for that increase to make any sizable increase for the retiree. I'm good with their intentions though, every dollar they don't collect is one that I can.
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Well said!!!!!!!
 
We can't look at the past when we could afford to retire after 30 years of service, I have 27 years and am only 48 years old, they have me until Im 62 and they know it ! Even if I could retire after 30 years of service what would my wife and I do for INSURANCE ? The pension fund and ABF want us to work until we have one foot in the grave.
At my barn we have half the seniority list is over 60 years old and no plans of retirement , some of our men struggle with the treadmill turn keys and two man deliveries but cant afford to retire or are terrified of living without health insurance.
 
I have to say that when i started back in 67 at mclean,they took people off the street that were qualified and trained them there way.there was so much frt. Back then we had cartage co. Drivers almost ever .day. They cherry picked the workers and hired them also.
A teamster forver.
 
We have a large YRC terminal in this area that's giving away, according to their steward, over 200 bills a week to interline because they can't hire anyone. The ones they do hire seem to quit after a month .
 
car/abf lifer said:
Senior workers should be given the opportunity to take early retirement. This plan will benefit the workers, teamsters and company by offering a buy out of any worker who has five to six weeks vacation. The company could then hire new workers at lower pay who have been layed off from other union companies. This would save the company money and avoid pay cuts. The union would benefit by the new workers paying into the pension.
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I actually think this is a great idea...although its not the company that would shoot this down. The union is in charge of the pensions and they dont want people to really know how bad theyve screwed them up....and if a bunch of retirements were to occur thats exactly what would happen.
On a related item with pensions, I have a question for some here that would know more than me: The companies for years have complained about the pensions and how much they pay and how they are run, with the "orphan" questions and the like. Arent these pension plans run by trustees that have union AND company representatives on the boards? If things werent going the way the companies wanted or if they thought things were going in a wrong direction isnt the trustees obligation to bring up objections and perhaps institute changes?
 
canaryinthemine said:
We have a large YRC terminal in this area that's giving away, according to their steward, over 200 bills a week to interline because they can't hire anyone. The ones they do hire seem to quit after a month .
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They quit after they find out how much of a pay cut their working at!Don't forget regular employees are at a 15% reduction so that means casuals or new hires are 70% of the full rate.So do the math $24.38-30%=$17.06 per hour with only 25% of your pension being funded.What would you do?They could work non-union and do better!
 
AkitaDog said:
They quit after they find out how much of a pay cut their working at!Don't forget regular employees are at a 15% reduction so that means casuals or new hires are 70% of the full rate.So do the math $24.38-30%=$17.06 per hour with only 25% of your pension being funded.What would you do?They could work non-union and do better!
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i could be wrong but I think the top rate at OD in harrisburg pa is 24/ hour. when abf keeps comparing our costs to OD im betting they skip that part.
 
foxman042 said:
i could be wrong but I think the top rate at OD in harrisburg pa is 24/ hour. when abf keeps comparing our costs to OD im betting they skip that part.
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Its not just the hourly wage,other than UPS and ABF none of the competition contribute to the pension funds.A ABF employee in NY is probably getting 15,000-16,000 a year put into that fund by the company.And most workers in the LTL business are contributing a portion of their pay for health insurance.UPS pays their full time employees well but they abuse the use of casuals. They flood their docks with $10/hr 4 HOUR casuals.11.90 at YRC.The non union companies pay more than that.And these casuals have to pay union dues.If you take a ABF employee and compare all wages and benifits to the competition you can see why ABF is the most expensive shipper in the business.Now the fliip side i believe ABF has the safest truckers on the road and a excellent work force.How does abf compete with a deep pocket company like UPS that doesnt play by the same rules?When UPS got into the LTL business it was bad news for everyone but the union.
 
Amem Brother,if you want to look back at the bad news ( UPS bails out of CSPF,thank you JUNIOR.)
A Teamster Forever.
 
vedder716 said:
Its not just the hourly wage,other than UPS and ABF none of the competition contribute to the pension funds.A ABF employee in NY is probably getting 15,000-16,000 a year put into that fund by the company.And most workers in the LTL business are contributing a portion of their pay for health insurance.UPS pays their full time employees well but they abuse the use of casuals. They flood their docks with $10/hr 4 HOUR casuals.11.90 at YRC.The non union companies pay more than that.And these casuals have to pay union dues.If you take a ABF employee and compare all wages and benifits to the competition you can see why ABF is the most expensive shipper in the business.Now the fliip side i believe ABF has the safest truckers on the road and a excellent work force.How does abf compete with a deep pocket company like UPS that doesnt play by the same rules?When UPS got into the LTL business it was bad news for everyone but the union.
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Western Penna.Pension Fund is $366.00 a week....two clock punches equals a week qualifier for pension fund. No co-pay for health insurance at $1264.00 a month versus , say....Conway with a 5% co-pay a month just to maintain their $1200.00 or so, a month health insurance, which at say $ 60,000.00 a year at 5% equals about $58.00 a week just to maintain what we get without a co-pay. $366.00 a week in the pension fund equals $9.15 an hour, over and above your hourly wage.....so that makes your total compensation package $33.57 an hour plus $1264.00 a month in health care. Conway's ...or OD's.....or Estes.,... compensation is their hourly wage MINUS whatever they defer for pension in a 401(k),..and MINUS the 5% or thereabouts for health care co-pay. They don't pay overtime at OD, or Estes , or Ward,...or at any number of non-Union carriers. Now factor that in...........There's probably a 30 to 40% total compensation package difference in what we get, and what the non-Unions get. No wonder ABF wants to lower us down. Remember, though....all those guys in the non's accepted lower wages and benefits, we never did.....YRC excepting. We're trying to maintain what we have, and the non-Union guys are sliding into the abyss.....and dragging us with them. If....and it's a big "If"...we accept wage and benefit cuts, we'll just be accelerating the drop into the abyss for the whole industry....EVERYBODY will take pay cuts pretty much immmediately after we take ours....if we do. And....when EVERYONE does......then I'll guarantee you they'll be asking to re-open the contract in a year or two, anyway, to try and jam more pay and benefit cuts down our throats. It's like throwing red meat at a lion to get him to stop chasing you.....it'll stop him for a bit,...but you've only whetted his appetite for more. BUT IF WE HOLD THE LINE.....DRAW THE LINE AND SAY "THE WAGE CUTS STOP HERE!"........then I think the non-Unions will gradually start edging their wage and benefit package back up closer to ours....if for no other reason than to prevent organizing at a wage cutting company....especially when a Teamster company has shown them how to stand firm. Our choice....downward spiral......or hold the line.
 
foxman042 said:
i could be wrong but I think the top rate at OD in harrisburg pa is 24/ hour. when abf keeps comparing our costs to OD im betting they skip that part.
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And why does O.D. Pay $24.00 an hour?Give up?Ok I'll tell you.It's because that's pretty close to union scale!If there was no union carriers these outfits would be paying maybe $18.00 - $20.00 an hour!
 
OD pays no overtime, that's right all hours worked are at straight time.
 
ABFer said:
OD pays no overtime, that's right all hours worked are at straight time.
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Yeah I get pissed now when I have to work 14 hours. My coping mechanism is to think of the money I am making and maybe what I can do with it if I ever get the time. I wouldn't even have that there, I would go crazy.
 
Boilerpeddle said:
Yeah I get pissed now when I have to work 14 hours. My coping mechanism is to think of the money I am making and maybe what I can do with it if I ever get the time. I wouldn't even have that there, I would go crazy.
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We need double time after ten, that would make me cope nicely.
 
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