Yellow | I hate my union,although I don't have the guts to quit!
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Joe the plumber
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What? You'll be making that decision soon. You gonna push back? What's it gonna be hero? I wish no hard times on any ABFer..but you
because I never forget
Joe,
If I misunderstood you thinking those that stood up were fools, then I apologize, not my intent to misrepresent what you have said.
“Couple things about a capitalist system. There has to be profits to support good jobs to keep middle class people middle class.” I agree with this statement 100% but, where does profit come from; your goods/service has to be as competitive as your computation and/or of such quality to justify the cost but more importantly, your consumer base has to be able to afford the goods and/or service!!!!!!
You can produce a widget or provide a service at an outstanding price but, if you don't have a consumer base that can afford your product/service, ya ain't ever gona sell it....EVER!!!!!!!!!!!
If you choose to see it or not, corporate America has bought off our government and has been waging a war on their workers for a while now, starting slowly with wages not keeping up with the real cost of living. Then they came up with this WTO, “American workers wages can't compete with 3rd world workers wages” and they are right, in our economy, there’s no one that can support a family on a buck a hour but, no one making a buck an hour can afford to buy their products ether. And now, they use the excuse, “The Economy” to actually cut wages and benefits. When ya send millions of jobs overseas and workers there don't make enough to buy your product, ya your economy is going to go in the tank....Duuuuhhhhh.
I know this may sound a little crazy but what if... we the middle class stood up and demanded that our Congress actually do what they are elected to do and (Article I, Section 8.) regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, imposing tariffs on importated goods so that American manufacturing is competitive with our competition and also demand that if you are going to enjoy the benefits of living in our Country, then you damn well will keep your company here, or take your ass and live over there. How many millions of jobs would that create? That might not “fix” the economy but by putting millions of workers back to work, it damn well would help.
If I misunderstood you thinking those that stood up were fools, then I apologize, not my intent to misrepresent what you have said.
“Couple things about a capitalist system. There has to be profits to support good jobs to keep middle class people middle class.” I agree with this statement 100% but, where does profit come from; your goods/service has to be as competitive as your computation and/or of such quality to justify the cost but more importantly, your consumer base has to be able to afford the goods and/or service!!!!!!
You can produce a widget or provide a service at an outstanding price but, if you don't have a consumer base that can afford your product/service, ya ain't ever gona sell it....EVER!!!!!!!!!!!
If you choose to see it or not, corporate America has bought off our government and has been waging a war on their workers for a while now, starting slowly with wages not keeping up with the real cost of living. Then they came up with this WTO, “American workers wages can't compete with 3rd world workers wages” and they are right, in our economy, there’s no one that can support a family on a buck a hour but, no one making a buck an hour can afford to buy their products ether. And now, they use the excuse, “The Economy” to actually cut wages and benefits. When ya send millions of jobs overseas and workers there don't make enough to buy your product, ya your economy is going to go in the tank....Duuuuhhhhh.
I know this may sound a little crazy but what if... we the middle class stood up and demanded that our Congress actually do what they are elected to do and (Article I, Section 8.) regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, imposing tariffs on importated goods so that American manufacturing is competitive with our competition and also demand that if you are going to enjoy the benefits of living in our Country, then you damn well will keep your company here, or take your ass and live over there. How many millions of jobs would that create? That might not “fix” the economy but by putting millions of workers back to work, it damn well would help.
Tariffs hardly ever work. Steel tariffs imposed by W Bush failed, and so have the tire tariffs imposed by Obama.
They just raise the cost of goods and hurt job growth.
http://economics.about.com/cs/taxpolicy/a/tariffs_2.htm
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Joe the plumber
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And I agree 100% with your statement..Prices of goods are dictated by the market..what ever the market will bare. If there is demand for your products, you raise your prices..people will still buy it. If the product is of high quality some will pay more for it. Thus there are Walmart stores (low end) and high end stores with higher quality brands. To make a profit you need a rather low cost labor force, a rather low cost distribution system and little debt. In a severe down turn as we're in the market demands a low cost operation..thus the give backs. There is an abundance..an over capacity of trucking companies offering low prices because they are unable to raises prices that would enable the work force to get a bigger piece of the pie. Corporations eat first in the pecking order. It's their game
Corporate America has bought off our government? I see it as the government killing corporate America and jobs. No one is working for a dollar an hour. Protectionism and over-regulation with czars solves nothing. What we need is more millionaires, more exporting, more jobs. America can compete with the best of them. To regulate commerce is just another compliance cost. You are correct..sometimes they have to impose tariffs on the cheaters (China) who would manipulate their currency to gain a huge edge on American exports. The Chinese are our biggest crooks trading partners not to mention the Russians. Demand something of Congress to improve your lot??
fuhgeddaboudit
wild thing
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Tariffs is all the early USA had.when they started the federal income tax that is when everything when to crap.That is when the government started give out money to people not to work. before then people would do any job they could to take care of there family's, not any more.Also neighbors helped neighbors now they run over you if you get in there way.Most don't even know there neighbors names. In 1981 fuel prices were 35 Cents a gal .Now it's up to$4.00 a gal but yet most company's still operate at around a dollar a mile.if they kept up with fuel costs they would be up around $12.00 a mile that is how much more a person earned back in 1981.And the dollar had value.
"I can't relate to the Public Employee thingy, pilot. Where I live we have 1 cop, and everyone in the area belongs to the local Volunteer Fire Dept. It costs us all THOUSANDS of dollars each for the training and equipment."
"thingy"? for real..? Any way... I'm not surprised that your unable to relate.....Perhaps you should consider that not everyone lives in the Rural areas....Sometimes a person has to see beyond just themselves and their own circumstances.....The world is filled with people that are not just like you......I don't know what rural area you live in and therefor can't speak to your claim that you pay "THOUSANDS" of dollars for training and equipment....But if that's the case and you find it to be to onerous....then you have other options.....
"Meanwhile, government and insurance both add new regulations yearly which are even more costly to make compliant."
Perhaps true....but what can you...or any of us do about that.....You seem to not have a problem with Corporations or Business adding new costs...or Making their own rules regarding how they will or will not conduct any particular dealings with the Public...for example Insurance....They have all manner of rules regarding what they will cover and not cover...and how you will make application to receive your due......But under the same conditions it's evil that the Government might add a regulation.. usually to try and safeguard the public from some unethical practice of Business.. If you look at it objectively...It's essentially the same thing...Business make, and often change their Rules...Government does the same.....Make, and often change the Rules.....
"While you feel emphamy for those workers who Choose to work those jobs,"
Obviously you don't feel empathy for those workers....what a shame that People have lost that sense of empathy towards others...Especially if it involves money...
"we in the farmland co-op together to save our property......"
But not your Moms Farm? Perhaps I didn't get the context of your statement that People from the "Farmland" band together to save property....
"I grew up when public sector jobs were, yes- done for minimum wage. People had choices whether to work there or not. In those days, only the unqualified for 'normal' work took public sector employment. Yet things still functioned. Different Times......"
When you grew up...of course things were different...it was for all of us.....and yes people have choices to work in such a job....But I think your characterization of Public service workers as being "unqualified" for "Normal" work.. shows just why you can't relate to the Public service "thingy" as you put it, because of your belief that they are all just a collection of second class citizens and do not have worth to society...I wonder if any police officer or firefighter..or teacher would find any agreement in that assessment?... and your term of "thingy" in the context of Public service workers conveys disdain toward them....The last time I heard anyone use the word "thingy" was from a teenage girl referring to something she thought of as "Icky".....So if that's an unfair assessment of how you view the Public sector...perhaps you should pay closer attention to the words that you use to express your thoughts..
"Different Times......"
Yes indeed they are...very much different than when you grew up in the farmland.....It's a big world out here....and sometimes that means we should be open to the fact that we can't go back to the simpler times of our childhoods...But it is a nice thought though if we could..
Cab Lizzard
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Hows the roof holding up ?
That article contained to much to go in to the limited space here...The thing that we both can agree on is the fact that Our Country, how it was during the 50's through the 70's is changing and not in ways that either of us like...where our opinions diverge is on by what means is the driving force of that change..You are fearful of "Marxism" and Communism"....But I see the rising of Marxism as a greater danger.....Consider.... Under a fascist government the role of the individual is to serve the greater glory of the state. Military and political leaders,along with wealthy Business leaders are celebrated and looked up to, and military action is seen as a prime function of the state in advancing its power and prestige....That is something that can be seen today....to more of a harmful degree than any creeping "Marxist" tendencies.....also individual dissent is not only discouraged but frequently "criminalized"... While Politicians continue to tell everyone that we have the right to dissent.....but as in these case of the OWS movement we all witnessed the excessive use of force as a means to discourage people from exercising that right of dissent....That is more alarming than Marxism seizing control at this point..... Throughout the 20th Century the term fascist has been used to describe both left wing and right wing governments, governments being "merged with" big business....again something we can see taking place now, through the whole sale purchase of Politicians at all levels...Corruption is everywhere...That in and of its self is a much greater threat to our Country and way of life that you recall from your youth in the Farmland....and by granting even more power to Corporations and accepting less accountability from them.. that just feeds the process even more....
The United States is not a communist country and will most likely never be....It is also not a Fascist Country but is making progress in that direction..Your support of Corporations and giving all control to them through little or no regulations for the reasons that they tell you to......is only contributing to the problem....and waving your "10 planks of Communism" around all the time is only a distraction to a more dangerous reality...I'm sure that since you have believed most of your life the things you post about here, your not going to suddenly come to a different realization.... The same applies to myself as well... so once again we are going to just have to agree to disagree on this topic...However I must note that in spite of our differences of opinion it is a good thing that we can engage in a civil discussion.
Be safe out there Jimmy....
Joe,
so Henry Ford was wrong to pay his employees a living wage because he was smart enough to realize that THEY were his costumers? Lets see, He started out with nothing, payed his employees a decent wage, weathered the depression and still became one of the richest men in our history, How did he do that? Oh ya, he knew how to manage his company!!!!!!!!
Oh, and by the way, ya the 3rd world workers are making about a buck an hour, if they are lucky!
so Henry Ford was wrong to pay his employees a living wage because he was smart enough to realize that THEY were his costumers? Lets see, He started out with nothing, payed his employees a decent wage, weathered the depression and still became one of the richest men in our history, How did he do that? Oh ya, he knew how to manage his company!!!!!!!!
Oh, and by the way, ya the 3rd world workers are making about a buck an hour, if they are lucky!
Joe the plumber
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Like I said little d..you're soo living in the past. If it were not for the downturn, if it were not for debt that YRC has, if it were not the rise of FedEx and the other big nons..if it were not for deregulation. YRC would have no problem paying $35.00 per hour
re·al·i·ty (Noun)
The world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them: "he refuses to face reality".
A thing that is actually experienced or seen, esp. when this is grim or problematic: "the harsh realities of life".[/I][/B]
deal with it
Joe,
denial is not a river in Africa.
de·ni·al, [dih-nahy-uh l], noun.
1. an assertion that something said, believed, alleged, etc., is false.
2. refusal to believe a doctrine, theory, or the like.
3. disbelief in the existence or reality of a thing.
4. the refusal to satisfy a claim, request, desire, etc., or the refusal of a person making it.
5. refusal to recognize or acknowledge; a disowning or disavowal.
"If it were not for the downturn, if it were not for debt that YRC has, if it were not the rise of FedEx and the other big nons..if it were not for deregulation. YRC would have no problem paying $35.00 per hour", ABF is dealing with every aspect you posted except, "if it were not for debt that YRC has" and who is paying for the mismanagement....Management, oh, hell no....The rank and file workers that were doing the same jobs when we were making record profits for 16 straight quarters....The men and women that actually do the work that pays the bills, Yep, those would be the one's.
I know ppl with your mindset hate it when documented facts are brought into a debate but, lets try this one last time:
1. Corporate America has bought off our elected leadership and we are now living with the most corrupted Government since....
2. Because of this greed and corruption, "the powers to be" have all but destroyed our economy to a point not seen since "The Great Depression".
3. Instead of doing what they were elected to do and regulate commerce, our corrupted Government has not only allowed jobs to be out sourced but has actually made it more profitable, at the cost of millions upon millions of jobs.
4. Those of us that are lucky enough to still have a job have had our wages stagnated over the last 40 odd years.
5. Over the last 10 odd years, Corporate America has actually taken wages and benefits away from the honest, hard working family's to the point that millions upon millions that were once middle class are now working poor, pushing the working poor to simply poor.
6. Because of the loss of wages and having to make up the benefits, the largest consumer base in the world can no longer afford to support the small businesses in our community's resulting in more unemployment.
7. Because of the loss of wages and having to make up the benefits, the largest consumer base in the world can no longer afford to buy the products made in our OWN DAMNED COUNTRY and are forced to have to buy the cheep knock off products made overseas
This is the first generation since WWII that will not do as good as their parents.
Now, my question is this; when this foot race to the bottom is over, when they finely succeed in destroying the middle class, who is going to be the consumer base and buy the products/services, who is going to pay the bills? The millionaires that you think we need more of?
The "Trickle Down Theory" will never work in our Capitalist economy, you have to have a large enough consumer base that makes a decent enough wage to support the manufacturing/service in this type of economy.
Again, Henry Ford was smart enough to understand this and not only succeeded but, became one of the richest men in our history and OUR COUNTRY was better off because of it!
denial is not a river in Africa.
de·ni·al, [dih-nahy-uh l], noun.
1. an assertion that something said, believed, alleged, etc., is false.
2. refusal to believe a doctrine, theory, or the like.
3. disbelief in the existence or reality of a thing.
4. the refusal to satisfy a claim, request, desire, etc., or the refusal of a person making it.
5. refusal to recognize or acknowledge; a disowning or disavowal.
"If it were not for the downturn, if it were not for debt that YRC has, if it were not the rise of FedEx and the other big nons..if it were not for deregulation. YRC would have no problem paying $35.00 per hour", ABF is dealing with every aspect you posted except, "if it were not for debt that YRC has" and who is paying for the mismanagement....Management, oh, hell no....The rank and file workers that were doing the same jobs when we were making record profits for 16 straight quarters....The men and women that actually do the work that pays the bills, Yep, those would be the one's.
I know ppl with your mindset hate it when documented facts are brought into a debate but, lets try this one last time:
1. Corporate America has bought off our elected leadership and we are now living with the most corrupted Government since....
2. Because of this greed and corruption, "the powers to be" have all but destroyed our economy to a point not seen since "The Great Depression".
3. Instead of doing what they were elected to do and regulate commerce, our corrupted Government has not only allowed jobs to be out sourced but has actually made it more profitable, at the cost of millions upon millions of jobs.
4. Those of us that are lucky enough to still have a job have had our wages stagnated over the last 40 odd years.
5. Over the last 10 odd years, Corporate America has actually taken wages and benefits away from the honest, hard working family's to the point that millions upon millions that were once middle class are now working poor, pushing the working poor to simply poor.
6. Because of the loss of wages and having to make up the benefits, the largest consumer base in the world can no longer afford to support the small businesses in our community's resulting in more unemployment.
7. Because of the loss of wages and having to make up the benefits, the largest consumer base in the world can no longer afford to buy the products made in our OWN DAMNED COUNTRY and are forced to have to buy the cheep knock off products made overseas
This is the first generation since WWII that will not do as good as their parents.
Now, my question is this; when this foot race to the bottom is over, when they finely succeed in destroying the middle class, who is going to be the consumer base and buy the products/services, who is going to pay the bills? The millionaires that you think we need more of?
The "Trickle Down Theory" will never work in our Capitalist economy, you have to have a large enough consumer base that makes a decent enough wage to support the manufacturing/service in this type of economy.
Again, Henry Ford was smart enough to understand this and not only succeeded but, became one of the richest men in our history and OUR COUNTRY was better off because of it!
Joe the plumber
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You're saying da nile is not a river in Africa. Okay, I stand corrected on that one. Your Number 1 up there "Corporate America has bought off our elected leadership" is a bit far fetched but yes we are now living with the most corrupted Government ever and they have brought on destruction big time.. Number 3 on the list..yes..Obama did promise to rein in NAFTA and foreign trade, but remember he promised a lot of things and the economy died as you noted. Obama has actually expanded foreign trade to include Russia now. But I must say I agree him on this policy. Regulating commerce is not the key to growth or adding jobs. Remember, America is still the largest manufacturer in the world and 94% of Americans still have a job. That is quite a base. Deregulation was designed to have the devastating effect it has produced. It was a huge success. Question: If regulation was in place and strictly enforced who would protect us against corporate America? No regulation keeps both corporate America and workers competitive.
Competition works..protectionism does not
com·pe·ti·tion/ˌkämpəˈtiSHən/
Noun:
The activity or condition of competing: "there is fierce competition between banks".
An event or contest in which people compete.
The act of seeking, or endeavoring to gain, what another is endeavoring to gain at the same time; common strife for the same objects; strife for superiority; emulous contest; rivalry, as for approbation, for a prize, or as where two or more persons are engaged in the same business and each seeking patronage; followed by for before the object sought, and with before the person or thing competed with.
Joe,
gotta give credit where credit is due. When you buy into BS you don't fool around, you buy into it hook, line and sinker, hell you wont even let pesky little things like documented facts get in your way!
Ok, if we can't debate facts, I'm done but, I'm gona leave ya with this thought; your so against rules/regulations in competition, why is it then that there is no sport in existence with out some sort of rules/regulations?
gotta give credit where credit is due. When you buy into BS you don't fool around, you buy into it hook, line and sinker, hell you wont even let pesky little things like documented facts get in your way!
Ok, if we can't debate facts, I'm done but, I'm gona leave ya with this thought; your so against rules/regulations in competition, why is it then that there is no sport in existence with out some sort of rules/regulations?
Joe the plumber
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The only fact you stated is the demise of the middle class. The reasons you cite like lack or regulation or foreign trade have nothing to do with it. It is not even a topic in the fiscal cliff talks. To say that Corporate America has bought off our elected leadership is nonsense. Why would they buy off an anti-business administration. The job producers don't see eye to eye with Obama..never did..never will. Hang on to what you got. it's going to be a long four years. Cite this for me..Mr Obama ought not be our president
Maybe some of you fools who think it's still the 1950's ought to pull your heads out of your you-know-what and try to understand the changed world we're living in today. Maybe reading this will help. Who knows, stranger things have happened..
China overtaking US as global trader - NorthJersey.com
SEOUL, South Korea — Shin Cheol-soo no longer sees his future in the United States.
The South Korean businessman supplied components to American automakers for a decade. But this year, he uprooted his family from Detroit and moved home to focus on selling to the new economic superpower: China.
In just five years, China has surpassed the United States as a trading partner for much of the world, including U.S. allies such as South Korea and Australia, according to an Associated Press analysis of trade data. As recently as 2006, the U.S. was the larger trading partner for 127 countries, versus just 70 for China. By last year the two had clearly traded places: 124 countries for China, 76 for the U.S.
In the most abrupt global shift of its kind since World War II, the trend is changing the way people live and do business from Africa to Arizona, as farmers plant more soybeans to sell to China and students sign up to learn Mandarin.
The findings show how fast China has ascended to challenge America's century-old status as the globe's dominant trader, a change that is gradually translating into political influence. They highlight how pervasive China's impact has been, spreading from neighboring Asia to Africa and now emerging in Latin America, the traditional U.S. backyard. etc., etc.
China overtaking US as global trader - NorthJersey.com
SEOUL, South Korea — Shin Cheol-soo no longer sees his future in the United States.
The South Korean businessman supplied components to American automakers for a decade. But this year, he uprooted his family from Detroit and moved home to focus on selling to the new economic superpower: China.
In just five years, China has surpassed the United States as a trading partner for much of the world, including U.S. allies such as South Korea and Australia, according to an Associated Press analysis of trade data. As recently as 2006, the U.S. was the larger trading partner for 127 countries, versus just 70 for China. By last year the two had clearly traded places: 124 countries for China, 76 for the U.S.
In the most abrupt global shift of its kind since World War II, the trend is changing the way people live and do business from Africa to Arizona, as farmers plant more soybeans to sell to China and students sign up to learn Mandarin.
The findings show how fast China has ascended to challenge America's century-old status as the globe's dominant trader, a change that is gradually translating into political influence. They highlight how pervasive China's impact has been, spreading from neighboring Asia to Africa and now emerging in Latin America, the traditional U.S. backyard. etc., etc.
Joe the plumber
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Nov 25, 2012 · SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China has carried out its first successful landing of a fighter jet on its first aircraft carrier, state media said on
China lands fighter jet on new carrier in show of force | Reuters
It looks like China wants to overtake US naval power as well
China lands fighter jet on new carrier in show of force | Reuters
It looks like China wants to overtake US naval power as well
bigtruk_us
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Some say President Obama is a Socialist or a commy.Dont be fooled by those words of what you may think he is.President Obama caters to big business quietly.All the while he runs around as a union democrat.He plays both sides of the fence.More so he caters to big business.Whereby defining him as a centrist.Many Socialist laugh when ask if Obama is a socialist.