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ABF | IBT Backs Plan to Allow Some Pension Cuts

TurnCoat said:
Well guys I get hammered as an A$$kissn, MeaSter quite often, pretty thick skin here, never cried on my keyboard while reading posts about how trashy I was, but, to get back on topic, I am glad that there is a serious commission on this issue, and that Hoffa is on board. Now being the MeaSter you all know I am, I certainly don't want to sacrifice any of my pension, but, I certainly don't want to retire, and later when I need it most, expect the broke government to prop up the thing when it cannot sustain it's obligations, and ABF could never make enough money to keep it alive when they are the only company left paying the full contribution. It has to change, and it will change, and the farther the can is kicked down the road, the more difficult the change will be.
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I respect you for what you have to say about the pension and we all agree that something needs to be done. But while considering changes they need to assure that we don't lose what we have accrued. I don't know about you being a measter but I do feel as though you are a little too close to the bossa man. To me it is never a good thing. But then I have experience with one who loved da bossa man and rode motorcycles with him while he talked about all the other drivers. BTW if I read correctly you said that you work through your lunch break for some reason. ABF will never give you an extra $25.00 and I can't, for the life of me, justify giving them mine.
 
ABFer said:
I respect you for what you have to say about the pension and we all agree that something needs to be done. But while considering changes they need to assure that we don't lose what we have accrued. I don't know about you being a measter but I do feel as though you are a little too close to the bossa man. To me it is never a good thing. But then I have experience with one who loved da bossa man and rode motorcycles with him while he talked about all the other drivers. BTW if I read correctly you said that you work through your lunch break for some reason. ABF will never give you an extra $25.00 and I can't, for the life of me, justify giving them mine.
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My old boss bought me lunch a couple times, and welcomed me over to ABF. He needed a qualified driver, and ABF doesn't just hire anybody walking down the street. I knew if the unfortunate circumstance happened, he might have to fire me, but he played by the rules. I was on the bottom, by choice, I didn't always hold him to guarantees when we had a dead day, the dock was swept, all the videos were watched, etc...I didn't hang around and watch the paint dry. But, He never gave me a lay-off either. We made it work. My new guy, he's a young man, my children's age, but he will get the respect due him. I don't talk about my fella worker's to the boss, except to say what a great crew we have, and that's the truth. However, I do have to occasionally give one the finger. He tends to ask for it. Think he likes it, cause his frown always becomes a smile, when I crudely remind him he is taking himself too seriously. See, he thinks, he's the boss! But, he's only the senior man! He actually told me to apply for the job one day when I saw him on the street, and he knew the other guy that had applied got cold feet. He's offered to take me hunting with him, but I'm too smart for that! :-) I still remember that Dick Cheney thing! :biggrin: And, about that lunch thing, I've worked through between the 3rd & 6th hour without lunch to service the customer, and I'm pretty much satisfied with the way I'm treated at ABF. Remember, the non-union folks that are down in the trenches with us, had to take cuts. I understand, that's the way it is, but there families need their income too. I want a good contract, but maybe some things I would consider ok, some would not. It kind of sounds like maybe they are going to give a raise for changes in some work rules, but we'll see. As far as pension, I don't want to lose anything accrued either, but we all will lose, without reform of the program. It's just a math problem. I'm just glad to see it getting addressed. I think ABF will have a lot of input to prevent anything drastic for their employees. They are still paying the full deal. But with a plan like this, there will be some shared sacrifice for the preservation of the whole. The fund trustees and the politicians in DC will set the rules, we won't necessarily get a vote, rather options. More years, better options, fair? What's fair? When the law changes,it's just law....now we all feel better, we know the politicians and trustees will do the right thing!:bgroovy:
 
ABFer said:
Hey Plunger Joe, what are you going to do if (or when) your monthly check drops to $1072? If it was happening to only you I would be laughing...and I know that I am not alone.
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If you figure $45 a week in union dues (I have heard so many different dues figures I don't know which one is right but this one seems middle-of-the-road) x52 weeks in a year=$2340/yr in dues

$2340x30 years service= $70,200 in dues paid over your lifetime

Time to exhaust your original investment in dues would be $70,200/$1072=65.5 months (5.45 years) to exhaust your initial investment.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your pension is paid out indefinitely until you die, correct? I would hope to shout that all of us could be retired more than 6 years before we kick the can. I don't know, but to have that amount coming in every month without having to invest in the traditional 401k where you probably invest 10% of your weekly income to get a decent return on investment in retirement, that sounds like an ok deal to me. Union drivers make so much more than us non's (average city driver makes $15-20k more than I do at Con-way) you have more financial flexibility to invest beyond what you get in pension. I wish my retirement looked that bright over here. But it doesn't. I get 2% company investment in my 401k, I can't afford to throw anything into the account myself, so what do I have in retirement? SQUAT.
 
Union dues is NOT once a week but rather once a month . So all your figures are a tad off . PLUS for that $45 you get medical / dental / and a pension . And there's also more you get but I wont bore everyone going over everything .

nncnwydude said:
If you figure $45 a week in union dues (I have heard so many different dues figures I don't know which one is right but this one seems middle-of-the-road) x52 weeks in a year=$2340/yr in dues

$2340x30 years service= $70,200 in dues paid over your lifetime

Time to exhaust your original investment in dues would be $70,200/$1072=65.5 months (5.45 years) to exhaust your initial investment.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your pension is paid out indefinitely until you die, correct? I would hope to shout that all of us could be retired more than 6 years before we kick the can. I don't know, but to have that amount coming in every month without having to invest in the traditional 401k where you probably invest 10% of your weekly income to get a decent return on investment in retirement, that sounds like an ok deal to me. Union drivers make so much more than us non's (average city driver makes $15-20k more than I do at Con-way) you have more financial flexibility to invest beyond what you get in pension. I wish my retirement looked that bright over here. But it doesn't. I get 2% company investment in my 401k, I can't afford to throw anything into the account myself, so what do I have in retirement? SQUAT.
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nncnwydude said:
If you figure $45 a week in union dues (I have heard so many different dues figures I don't know which one is right but this one seems middle-of-the-road) x52 weeks in a year=$2340/yr in dues

$2340x30 years service= $70,200 in dues paid over your lifetime

Time to exhaust your original investment in dues would be $70,200/$1072=65.5 months (5.45 years) to exhaust your initial investment.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your pension is paid out indefinitely until you die, correct? I would hope to shout that all of us could be retired more than 6 years before we kick the can. I don't know, but to have that amount coming in every month without having to invest in the traditional 401k where you probably invest 10% of your weekly income to get a decent return on investment in retirement, that sounds like an ok deal to me. Union drivers make so much more than us non's (average city driver makes $15-20k more than I do at Con-way) you have more financial flexibility to invest beyond what you get in pension. I wish my retirement looked that bright over here. But it doesn't. I get 2% company investment in my 401k, I can't afford to throw anything into the account myself, so what do I have in retirement? SQUAT.
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Looks like someone stuck there foot in there mouth....
 
George Carlin turned into a cranky old man later in his stand-up days. I much preferred is old stuff like finding a place for "his stuff" which is still one of the funniest videos on you tube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac

We have problems in our county and much of it has to do with how the political system is influenced by big money contributors much like the Guilded Age of the late 1800's. But I wouldn't want to live in any other country on the planet. When it get too bad, we do eventually throw them out of office.

Better than the alternative of any other country on the planet.
 
Good take, Brother Nothumbleenough! There's a new book on economics out there by Dr. Robert Wolf......How's this for a good slogan: "Democracy is the Cure for Capitalism". You can vote politicians in and out of office. You'll never get a vote on a CEO, or members of a Board of Directors....none that matters, anyway. But Big Business is real good at deflecting the blame away from themselves and onto politics. How many people detest our Government just for that reason? And the true culprit goes and hides behind his moneybags. The Gilded Age was the Robber Baron Era. We are now in the Weasel Baron Era. Same sort of people, you just have to go through a layer of lawyers to get to them....
 
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canaryinthemine said:
I can think of several people who could learn a thing or two from Mr. Carlin.....
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GO40 said:
Looks like someone stuck there foot in there mouth....
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How did I stick my foot in mouth? My figures were off yes, but to your favor. $45x12=$540 a year in dues. $540x30=$16200 in a 30 year career. Divide that by 1072 you exhaust the original investment in 15 months. I'd bet most teamsters will live longer than 15 months beyond retirement. That plus all bennies for you and your family for the life of your career... You tell me how that's such a bad deal.
 
nncnwydude said:
How did I stick my foot in mouth? My figures were off yes, but to your favor. $45x12=$540 a year in dues. $540x30=$16200 in a 30 year career. Divide that by 1072 you exhaust the original investment in 15 months. I'd bet most teamsters will live longer than 15 months beyond retirement. That plus all bennies for you and your family for the life of your career... You tell me how that's such a bad deal.
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Uh, our union dues isn't an investment. Its a fee we pay for union representation. Our union dues is not invested into any pension.
 
Well my dues are $59 a month, they were $22 way back in the day when I started, but I have no doubt that I have gotten my money's worth. In this anti-union climate we now find ourselves in, negotiating is tough business.
 
nncnwydude said:
How did I stick my foot in mouth? My figures were off yes, but to your favor. $45x12=$540 a year in dues. $540x30=$16200 in a 30 year career. Divide that by 1072 you exhaust the original investment in 15 months. I'd bet most teamsters will live longer than 15 months beyond retirement. That plus all bennies for you and your family for the life of your career... You tell me how that's such a bad deal.
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My apologies I misread it....
 
Stoney said:
Uh, our union dues isn't an investment. Its a fee we pay for union representation. Our union dues is not invested into any pension.
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Yes, I know that. But you further make my point. You invest nothing throughout your career except for working for the company, which you'd do anyway because you get a paycheck for it, and for that you get a monthly salary for the rest of your life in which you have made no monetary investment. How many places out there in the marketplace have that anymore? Very few. If it were me (and I'm hoping it will be, I've got an app in with ABF as we speak) I'd be thankful for that.
 
nncnwydude said:
Yes, I know that. But you further make my point. You invest nothing throughout your career except for working for the company, which you'd do anyway because you get a paycheck for it, and for that you get a monthly salary for the rest of your life in which you have made no monetary investment. How many places out there in the marketplace have that anymore? Very few. If it were me (and I'm hoping it will be, I've got an app in with ABF as we speak) I'd be thankful for that.
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Who says we aren't thankful?
 
The Central States Pension Fund horse is dead. They have been beating that dead horse for years. Most companies that change pension rules apply them to new hires after the date of the change, you keep the same benefit program as when you stated, it seems that we get a cut yearly. WHY IS EVERYONE AFRAID TO SAY "DISSOLVE THE FUND" take the balance, divide it by years contributed per member, cut them a check to roll over tax free into their 401k.
Then set up a fund at Prudential or other nation wide financial firm for our company paid contributions to go to our own 401k.
WE PAY TO FUND THE COMPANIES WE WORK FOR, WHY SHOULD WE KEEP PAYING TO KEEP THE FAILING PENSION FUND SLACKERS EMPLOYED.
THEY HAVE PROVEN FOR YEARS THEY CANT DO THEIR JOB
THEY ARE RUDE AND CONDESCENDING AND FEEL WE OWE THEM SOMETHING, "THEY WORK FOR US"
PLEASE Start a pole to gauge thoughts on this idea
D
 
Brother, I think you want a "poll" to gauge thoughts on dissolving the fund..... A "pole" is what you want to use to whack the Trustees of the fund that mismanaged it into the ground....I think you were getting a little ahead of yourself, but I know what you meant..
 
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