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Yellow | If this is true, is this a game changer?

Dracula

Dracula

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On the Saia page, there is a thread We need a union and we need it know. Hoot Owl posted a comment, on page 24, #473.
"First off all Dracula you wouldn't be a member of the CSPF, it's a closed fund. Period."
Pension plans are Ponzi schemes. In order for the fund to survive, you have to have new members bringing in new revenue. If the fund is closed to new members, then isn't the fund already a dead fund walking and all the back and forth, over the last several months, has been for nothing?
 
Dracula said:
On the Saia page, there is a thread We need a union and we need it know. Hoot Owl posted a comment, on page 24, #473.
"First off all Dracula you wouldn't be a member of the CSPF, it's a closed fund. Period."
Pension plans are Ponzi schemes. In order for the fund to survive, you have to have new members bringing in new revenue. If the fund is closed to new members, then isn't the fund already a dead fund walking and all the back and forth, over the last several months, has been for nothing?
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Sounds like a question for Hoot Owl. Ask him to post a link.
 
Dracula said:
On the Saia page, there is a thread We need a union and we need it know. Hoot Owl posted a comment, on page 24, #473.
"First off all Dracula you wouldn't be a member of the CSPF, it's a closed fund. Period."
Pension plans are Ponzi schemes. In order for the fund to survive, you have to have new members bringing in new revenue. If the fund is closed to new members, then isn't the fund already a dead fund walking and all the back and forth, over the last several months, has been for nothing?
Click to expand...

CSPF is not closed to new members....Fred Zuckerman at Local 89 organized 3 companies last year and put them into CSPF...so that is an incorrect statement.....KK
 
highheadblues said:
What part of that statement do you consider a game changer? Cspf is a dead fund, and nothing will change that. The hole in it is so large, that adding a few more companies to it would have no effect.
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Kennesaw Kid said:
CSPF is not closed to new members....Fred Zuckerman at Local 89 organized 3 companies last year and put them into CSPF...so that is an incorrect statement.....KK
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Is that suppose to be a plus for Zuckerman? All that makes me think is he is as crooked as Hoffa. Putting 3 new companies into a broken fund is just retarded. Retarded for the union to screw over new recruits, great selling point for union busters to harp on.
 
Actually if I understand.Newly organized members are being placed in another fund other than the CSPF.All parties negotiate and decide which fund is suitable
 
Central States still has single employer funds that are doing quite well, I imagine those are what the companies were put into.
 
Dracula said:
Pension plans are Ponzi schemes. In order for the fund to survive, you have to have new members bringing in new revenue. If the fund is closed to new members, then isn't the fund already a dead fund walking and all the back and forth, over the last several months, has been for nothing?
Click to expand...

Only fools would actually agree to be put INTO Central States. Having said that, to call the fund "dead" would be a little misleading. Don't forget The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation
http://www.pbgc.gov/

Certainly NOT the amount that retirees were promised, but NOT zero either. 30 yr. of service max, under the benefit guarantee, is $12,870 per year.

http://www.pbgc.gov/about/factsheets/page/multi-facts.html

As far as all pension plans being "Ponzi schemes"? I'm not certain, but I think the UPSF pension is funded at a level sufficient to self sustain itself.
 
SwampRatt said:
Only fools would actually agree to be put INTO Central States. Having said that, to call the fund "dead" would be a little misleading. Don't forget The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation
http://www.pbgc.gov/

Certainly NOT the amount that retirees were promised, but NOT zero either. 30 yr. of service max, under the benefit guarantee, is $12,870 per year.

http://www.pbgc.gov/about/factsheets/page/multi-facts.html

As far as all pension plans being "Ponzi schemes"? I'm not certain, but I think the UPSF pension is funded at a level sufficient to self sustain itself.
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I believe I was quoting someone who said that the fund was closed. To me that means the fund has no new revenue coming in and is dead. That's the way I look at it. Rightly or wrongly, I think that all pension funds are a Ponzi scheme that requires more and more new blood to sustain it as the retiree numbers rise year after year. UPSF has to contribute all the money. Every new retiree is a drain on the fund and doesn't contribute anything to the profit of the company. I was never any good at math but it seems to me that, at some point, UPSF will be underwater, with more retiree's than actives.
 
Dracula said:
I believe I was quoting someone who said that the fund was closed. To me that means the fund has no new revenue coming in and is dead. That's the way I look at it. Rightly or wrongly, I think that all pension funds are a Ponzi scheme that requires more and more new blood to sustain it as the retiree numbers rise year after year. UPSF has to contribute all the money. Every new retiree is a drain on the fund and doesn't contribute anything to the profit of the company. I was never any good at math but it seems to me that, at some point, UPSF will be underwater, with more retiree's than actives.
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That is true in most past plans. I'm reluctant to put numbers out there without looking them up (again), but I seem to recall UPSF contributing somewhere in the neighborhood of $8.00/hour per eligible employee. THAT seems sufficient to cover the expense, or each, upon retirement.

Most multi employer plans were/are Ponzi schemes, just like Social security. I agree.
 
How many ponzi schemes pay out more money than member put in? The central states pension fund being underwater hides the fact that over its lifetime , returns were actually quite good. But when a member is paid in for 30 years at less than $8 per hour and collects $3000 per month out for over ten years, that isn't a failure. It also isn't sustainable, hence we are here.
 
stpinindy said:
How many ponzi schemes pay out more money than member put in? The central states pension fund being underwater hides the fact that over its lifetime , returns were actually quite good. But when a member is paid in for 30 years at less than $8 per hour and collects $3000 per month out for over ten years, that isn't a failure. It also isn't sustainable, hence we are here.
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Until there is an extensive audit going way back I will not be satisfied with it isn't sustainable or its bound to fail.
 
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