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We are either in this together or not. If you are not part of the union then you are not part of the whole. You are an individual and no one will have your back. Having someone looking out for you is the strength of the union. That is what we need. I can not stand up to UPS on my own, but as a group we can.
 
TX_jarhead welcome to truckingboards. Good to have you with us.
Wow is right. Heck of a 1st post. Sounds like the voice of experience speaking.
 
TX_jarhead said:
Hey everyone, my first post here on this board. Just to FYI, I am a 15 1/2 year Overnite guy. I've been on both sides of the fence. Started as PT dock, Jockey, PU&D, MGMT, & RDDR. I've also been on both sides of the union issue. In MGMT I actually was a part of OVNT fighting the teamsters.

Now things have changed. UPS is not OVNT. I played the whole what's best for me game for a long time. Sometimes things worked out, sometimes not. I've learned over the past few years that what I do or don't do on the job has a direct effect on the other guys I work with. What's always best for me personally and short term is more than likely going to hurt another co-worker somewhere along the line. I am in this for the long term. I have kids now, 1 - 18 mo old, & 1 - 2 mo old. I can no longer think about what is best for me next week, or next year. I have to do what is best for my family for the next 20 years. What is best for me for the next 20 years is also what is best for every guy I go to work with; Stability, security in employment and $$$$. As a stand alone worker at UPS, you have nothing standing between you and the street. I do not care how good or talented you think you may be. I don't care how buddy-buddy you think you are with your TM. At UPS and any large corporation, EVERYONE is replaceable. And the fact is your replacement will work cheaper than you will. That includes everyone in MGMT. UPS is a meat grinder to any and every employee. Nothing or no one will stand in their way to maximize the bottom line for their shareholders. That's our system here in the USA.

UPS deals with the teamsters becuase they have to deal with them. Period. They don't do it because they think they are bunch of swell guys. It's business for both sides. It just so happens that the teamsters business is protecting the average guys butt for being taken advantage of by the company. The teamsters aren't a bunch of guys sitting up in D.C.

It's me, liebstandarte, & you working together to do what is best for our families and jobs. Long-term it makes no sense for me or the union to stand in the way of UPS being healthy and profitable. But, AND IT IS A HUGE BUT! We have every right and responsiblilty to make sure that ALL of us are healthy and profitable not just the shareholders (of course, of which , I am one).



We can not be as myoptic to think that we as individuals in a sea of 425,000 other employees are going to be able to take care of ourselves by ourselves. At OVNT you could do it. I did it. Wishing and hoping that things don't change won't make it so. UPS will squeeze every last bit of efficiency and $$$ from every employee, that's what they do. That's why they make $4billion in profit for the shareholders every year. Keep thinking you are on an island and you may well end up on one, alone, and wondering what happened to that really good paycheck you use to get.

Peace and Merry CHRIST-MASS to all,
TX_jarhead

:smilie_132:
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Everyone who is pro union should take note
this is how you persuade someone to vote yes, very well put.

I know I will lose money if we vote yes, but I also know I Could lose even more if I vote no.
 
Overnite said:
I don't doubt that 1 bit.



not quite, I do not want the job of firing people, I would much rather spend a month or 2 working with them regardless of how many times they screw up as long as they show promise and the ability to eventually get the hang of it, to help them be a better employee, that way everyone wins instead of writing him up 2 or 3 times and firing them.

If I was to become a manager I would take a cut in pay work just as many hours and have twice the responsibility.

I don't think so.




Your right, Is there somthing wrong with that?, at the end of the day I make decisions that benefit me and my family, not the comany or the teamsters.

Do you make your decisions to make you and your family happy? or the teamsters? Or the company?
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You are going to be a tough nut to crack. You have protected your own little space for so long that you can't grasp the concept of a brotherhood. There is no "I" in team. This is going to be about the betterment of the collective group. You will catch on, in time. This will be a learning experience for all that have not worked in a union environment. I say bring it on!!!!!! Elvis out....
 
Overnite said:
I was hired as pt dock then moved to p&d
I was asked to move back to dock and take the leadman spot then I ran inbound then moved to outbound, currently I do all the outbound then run the road, I have done just about everything a person can except hire or fire someone.

what have I dished out? Your the one that brought up how much you do or don't make, if you don't want people to comment on it then don't post it on the internet.

I can assure you, I am not worried about my job, becuase no matter what stuation I am in, I will make the most of it and I will turn it into my favor just like I have always done, some people are preprogrammed to complain and stick there hand out and to think there entitled to certian things, others will do whatever they have to end up at the top of the food chain.
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First of all you should try using your head, you are willing to take the cheap ins. which you currently have in the contract but you are afraid your contribution per week will go up.

Well I do not know about you, but if I were to except the INS. indy has in comparison to what is being offered now, we would go broke in the north, it barely pays for anything.

Pay out 15% with an out of pocket expense of $2000.00 for a surgery, that suck's and then to boot have to pay $150.00 a week to boot for a family.

I currently have an ins. plan that I pay 130.00 for now, ( just the health ins. mind you) and it covers everything, if they can afford this nonunion, they can afford it union.

And there is no ambiguity in that statement.
 
Emptypockets,

I agree that this is not a bad first time contract and I certainly beleive that we do not want to try and exsist with UPS without representation.
I have a question off the cuff. Do you know R. McCardle? I heard that blow hard is now a supervisor, could this be true?
 
Overnite said:
Everyone who is pro union should take note
this is how you persuade someone to vote yes, very well put.

I know I will lose money if we vote yes, but I also know I Could lose even more if I vote no.
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Overnite, I apoligize for this, ever scince you have come on , you have contridicted youself and spoke of things you knew nothing about, we do not want to fight and argue and get you too become something you do not want to be, alot of us on this board have been here for some time, we have all been getting along and has searched for credibility in each statement that we have posted. And have also weighed the pro's and con's of making such a move.

I have also tried to be nice and you have attacked me and on a regular basis tell us we are biast for the union, I apoligize if you do not see what we are willing to give up for a positive future. I get the impression you think we are idiots sometimes, I can assure you I am not, My wife is an economist, she is not stupid iether.

Appearantly, paying for your health ins. and loosing a 401 is a big issue for you, well it is not a big issue for us considering the returns of voting union is much greater.It is also a fact of life that INS. goes up on a regular basis, it is only a matter of time before the contracted people loose what solidarity they have in ins.

So please some of us is trying to bring you too the light, it is just a question of one seeing it. And if you cannot, do not attack us for being opposed to your thoughts please.
 
Accel, agreed. We do not need a bunch of personal shots becasue this does not benefit anyone. You made a very good point, step back and take a look at the future. We will be the highest paid in the industry, why? Because UPS wants this as part of their brand and the preception they are be best Company to work for in the world. We do not want to work for UPS w/o representation, why? You have seen some rule changes, but the real deal is the structure of the management. It will not be the good ole boy net work where if you do not like what the manager says you call Richmond and it changes. UPS does not care, they have a playbook and EVERYONE will go by that play book, Mgmt, hourly, mileage does not matter. If they give a concession then watchout becasue they will want something in return. This is their world and they are moving us all toward the organization as this is part of the deal that was orginally cut with Hoffa.

I can certainly understand wanting the best deal for you and yours, this is what I am wanting too; however if everything has to line up perfect then that person will not be happy with or without the union. Every sittuation will not work out for you. Senority is the cornerstone of the the union; however this core beleif does not always work in the favor of everyone and every time.
 
MFASU said:
Emptypockets,

I agree that this is not a bad first time contract and I certainly beleive that we do not want to try and exsist with UPS without representation.
I have a question off the cuff. Do you know R. McCardle? I heard that blow hard is now a supervisor, could this be true?
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I know him and (sigh) yes its true.:butt kiss:
 
Accelerator said:
Overnite, I apoligize for this, ever scince you have come on , you have contridicted youself and spoke of things you knew nothing about, we do not want to fight and argue and get you too become something you do not want to be, alot of us on this board have been here for some time, we have all been getting along and has searched for credibility in each statement that we have posted. And have also weighed the pro's and con's of making such a move.

I have also tried to be nice and you have attacked me and on a regular basis tell us we are biast for the union, I apoligize if you do not see what we are willing to give up for a positive future. I get the impression you think we are idiots sometimes, I can assure you I am not, My wife is an economist, she is not stupid iether.

Appearantly, paying for your health ins. and loosing a 401 is a big issue for you, well it is not a big issue for us considering the returns of voting union is much greater.It is also a fact of life that INS. goes up on a regular basis, it is only a matter of time before the contracted people loose what solidarity they have in ins.

So please some of us is trying to bring you too the light, it is just a question of one seeing it. And if you cannot, do not attack us for being opposed to your thoughts please.
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Where did I contradict my self? Can you show me where I attacked you? I am not saying I didn't, but 99% of the time I don't lash out unless I am attacked first.

There are idiots on here, look at the thread about ins. cost, most of those people don't know what there paying and they didn't know UPS pays for most of the cost of ins. in some cases.

The only people I am against are the ones that come on here and tell everyone to vote the teamsters in becuase we all get better pay and benefits. Which is not true, will most people benefit from the teamsters, I think so, I understand that.

If I were to vote yes (which I have not deceided one way or the other), I would be in the situation like that guy in the old war movies who has to shut the door and drowned himself to keep the ship afloat

I have respect for anyone who comes on here and wants to debate others and stays truthful, as you do.
 
dont be stupid

Accelerator said:
Overnite, I apoligize for this, ever scince you have come on , you have contridicted youself and spoke of things you knew nothing about, we do not want to fight and argue and get you too become something you do not want to be, alot of us on this board have been here for some time, we have all been getting along and has searched for credibility in each statement that we have posted. And have also weighed the pro's and con's of making such a move.

I have also tried to be nice and you have attacked me and on a regular basis tell us we are biast for the union, I apoligize if you do not see what we are willing to give up for a positive future. I get the impression you think we are idiots sometimes, I can assure you I am not, My wife is an economist, she is not stupid iether.

Appearantly, paying for your health ins. and loosing a 401 is a big issue for you, well it is not a big issue for us considering the returns of voting union is much greater.It is also a fact of life that INS. goes up on a regular basis, it is only a matter of time before the contracted people loose what solidarity they have in ins.

So please some of us is trying to bring you too the light, it is just a question of one seeing it. And if you cannot, do not attack us for being opposed to your thoughts please.
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losing the 401k match is a big issue. i for 1 as a 15 yr employee think so.
 
401K is a big issue and an even larger one is group insurance and what we will have to pay. UPS went to Hoffa with two things 1) we want out of the Central States pension or 2) we want to reduce our cost on the medical benifits. Hoffa knew he could not sell the medical reduction and thus UPS is now going to be out of the Central States which is going to be good for all of us future teamsters. Now, I want to get the organization thing going so we can lend oud weight to the medical issue by the next contract. This is one thing we do not need to give up whether we have 1,10,20 years as this is a big deal. UPS is diluting the 401K because they want everything backed up by their stock, which is not really a good thing for the employee unless the stock splits. Those of us with only 5 years left this is not a good deal, but still will not keep me from signng a card, because i am looking for what will need to be done my last five years and contracts well beyond that. Pension is another thing that needs to be that about.
 
Just remenber that if your terminal does join the union. Be sure to elect the best guys as stewards. Men who will not be bought out by favors and are willing to go the whole 9 yards for the members. A manager who knows the steward will not bend, will think twice before he pulls any crap, because he will have to answer for it at a grievance hearing. All managers will be forced to explain there actions in an open hearing on the record. The union is a powerful shield for all to protect our rights.
 
Overnite said:
Where did I contradict my self? Can you show me where I attacked you? I am not saying I didn't, but 99% of the time I don't lash out unless I am attacked first.

There are idiots on here, look at the thread about ins. cost, most of those people don't know what there paying and they didn't know UPS pays for most of the cost of ins. in some cases.

The only people I am against are the ones that come on here and tell everyone to vote the teamsters in becuase we all get better pay and benefits. Which is not true, will most people benefit from the teamsters, I think so, I understand that.

If I were to vote yes (which I have not deceided one way or the other), I would be in the situation like that guy in the old war movies who has to shut the door and drowned himself to keep the ship afloat

I have respect for anyone who comes on here and wants to debate others and stays truthful, as you do.
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I can respect that, and I am being positive about this, and I am not about to point out anything please, I wish not to go that route, instead can we be freindly posters please?

And if at any other time I offend you, unless I tell you I am offending you, please feel free to PM me and I will clarify whatever offending statement I have made, I can assure you this is not my intention.
 
bigarms said:
losing the 401k match is a big issue. i for 1 as a 15 yr employee think so.
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Well for some people it is a big issue, I do not disagree, but one must remember, UPS is paying into a pention as well , so the contribution too the 401K is not a big issue to the company as a whole, considering there is only, what ? 40% of the company contributing, 23-25% of this 40% is in other then dock and driver.

If I am wrong, please correct me, I have the figures somewhere, I do not think I am too far off coarse.
 
liebstandarte said:
Just remenber that if your terminal does join the union. Be sure to elect the best guys as stewards. Men who will not be bought out by favors and are willing to go the whole 9 yards for the members. A manager who knows the steward will not bend, will think twice before he pulls any crap, because he will have to answer for it at a grievance hearing. All managers will be forced to explain there actions in an open hearing on the record. The union is a powerful shield for all to protect our rights.
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That is the key.................
 
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