ABF | Mr." WHITE PAPER" Pat Flynn

Great post Jimk849,

Again, that video says it all, it was the start of what is happening now!
Go to the union meeting LOL they just shut your mic off
GOODBYE MIKEY!!!!!!!!!!
 
Mikey thanks for the history lesson. The one part of history you seem to overlook is two recent votes by the MEMBERS of the Chicago locals that say no to more concessions. Thats where the beef with Mr. Whitepaper comes in. He did not stand behind his members and vote no at the executive board meeting, thus abbandoning his members and thier wishes expressed thru the voting process. He is our representative not our ruler.

Pat said that he opposed a re-vote on the YRC 5% concession, in the union meeting, in front of God and everybody else. The decision was that of the GEB and was forced, and he would stand behind the wishes of his members. Now, I was not in the Executive session of the meeting of the General Executive Board, so I really don't know how he voted, and for anyone to presume that they know how he voted would be a guess at best. I suspect that even if he voted no, he would have been out voted by the others on the board. Did you see any record of the votes at the General Executive Board meeting where this issue was voted on?
 
Again, that video says it all, it was the start of what is happening now!
Go to the union meeting LOL they just shut your mic off

Hey they might shut the mic off at 705, but in 10 years of union meetings at 710, they have NEVER shut the mic off on anyone, ever.

Shutting the mic off might be they way they do things at 705, I don't know and really don't care, that is your business, and you need to vote OUT those who do.

My suggestion to you is to find your 710 steward that attended all of the last several months union meetings and find out the truth before you go posing half truths here.
 
let me start by saying that it does say we would'nt lose any existing working conditions contained in our contracts that are superior to those in the NMFA and its supplements..
But i would just like to know about the next contract...kind of looks like we are going to become one with the National..makes me feel a bit uneasy...you yourself know what it costs to live in the greater chicagoland are..so tell me why should'nt we get the option to live with the same standards as the rest of the ABF employment in the rest of the country ..we could possibly have done that by having the ability to negotiate within this area as a seperate unit...i know the 6 dollars in raises i've gotten in the last 16 years is making it harder each year for alot of people to keep their heads above the water...and now all this talk about ABF maybe asking for some money back... with the white paper i can almost guarantee you ABF sch would have told them to pound salt...thats kind of detrimental to me so i am letting you know...you asked..but then again you did say that this would be the last time you're going to post on this issue also..

On the back of the NMFA is what is called a Local Supplement. I suspect that this is where you're going to see any differences between road city and dock.

I know that the General Executive Board is pissed off that Chicago Area locals did not vote for the second round of YRC concessions, but I think that this is to avert the complete permanent loss of members on the YRC dock. It is my understanding that they plan to make Chicago Heights an end of the line, and move break operations to Milwaukee, Rock Island and others, and on the dock, they cannot follow their work on the white paper agreement. On the NMFA if there is a terminal gaining employees on a COO, those whose jobs are affected can move. Is this perfect, hell no, but at least they will not be without options.
 
On the back of the NMFA is what is called a Local Supplement. I suspect that this is where you're going to see any differences between road city and dock.

I know that the General Executive Board is pissed off that Chicago Area locals did not vote for the second round of YRC concessions, but I think that this is to avert the complete permanent loss of members on the YRC dock. It is my understanding that they plan to make Chicago Heights an end of the line, and move break operations to Milwaukee, Rock Island and others, and on the dock, they cannot follow their work on the white paper agreement. On the NMFA if there is a terminal gaining employees on a COO, those whose jobs are affected can move. Is this perfect, hell no, but at least they will not be without options.

i read somewhere else on this part of the forum where someone said this... and i quote(i think it was you)..

I just have to ask this question. What the hell does this issue have to do with the ABF guys? I know we should be concerned, and we are, but that is why we visit to the YRC thread.

did'nt we as a company negotiate our own contract? my bad did'nt we try ?i believe ABF as a company was the ones that agreed to accept what the others wanted..as well as they were the ones who wanted to negotiate seperately
so why could'nt we as a company have kept our white paper instead of having it get flushed before the ::shit:: happens to us...they wanted to be seperate and we are technically on a seperate one company contractual agreement are'nt we?..so why since ABF wanted their own contract seperate from the other companies ..why could'nt we as seperate entities have kept our white paper...
just curious...get back to me when you get a chance..
 
I just spent an hour on a response to you dockit, but for some unknown reason, the post button wouldnt post and forced me to re-login. If you want to contact me directly, PM me with your direct email, and I will send you my phone number.
 
Here goes again, I will try to explain, again.

Back at contract time, ABF withdrew from TMI who is the association of company managers that negotiate on behalf of the companies. ABF intended to do whatever, but their trump card was shown in the months before, in Q reports, and meetings and reports from now defunct financial management companies.

While TMI (YRC)and TNFINC (IBT)were at the table hammering out a contract, freight division executives were keeping an eye and ear on what ABF was spoon feeding their contract employees.

ABF goes to the table, and were reminded that since they were previously negotiating directly with employees, instead of their representatives (IBT) they are treated to a me-too contract.

The contract goes for a vote and ratified, now time for the white paper contracts to their turn. 710 dock and yard contract turned down the first vote, ratified on the second. 705 is the sole hold out for the whole country. Demands included a pay increase superior to the NMFA, and some other stuff, which the companies would never agree to subject to the NMFA maintenance of standards article, which means if they get it, the whole rest of the country gets it. After a year or so of hold outs, the IBT sent in negotiators to see to it the problems get settled, and protect the jobs of every other nationwide freight employee involved indirectly. This explains white paper Chicago problem number one.

YRC comes to the IBT hat in hand, asking for a 10% concession. The IBT hammers out a deal, putting some 15% of the stock in escrow that would benefit employees should they fail. (I really do not know all the details of that and will not expand on the matter). The membership votes and approves the concessions. YRC is told this is it, there aint no more to give back.

Here they come again, looking for another 5%. More negotiations are put into play and they agree to what ever it is they agreed to. The membership votes again. Chicago is the big holdout. YRC threatens to close operations, with leaving Chicago with only end of the line terminal there.

Membership meeting at 710, Pat says he will stand behind his members, and he has to date, offers YRC guys a chance to voice their concerns, and hear the truth about what is going on in a special meeting for their guys, the next Sunday. My understanding is that there was a very small number of YRC guys there. The letter recommending the members vote in favor goes out. The YRC members again vote no. That is their right under the Constitution. Now there are several thousand jobs in Chicago on the chopping block, because the company will do their breakbulk and other operations out of the area, the road drivers can follow their work, the yard and dock guys cannot.
White paper problem number two and three.

The IBT convenes a meeting of the General Executive Committee, and decides that for the common good of everyone involved, takes action to secure these jobs. Did Pat vote in favor? Ask him before you blame him for any wrong doing. I suspect that what I know of Pat is that he stood up for his membership, and probably locked horns with most if not all on the Committee, including the General President.

What did ABF employees have to do with this? Nothing. It is my understanding that the decision to combine is done by local union, and not by company.

Will ABF ask to negotiate separately, for thier own contract again? I do not know. I suspect that with the latest goings on with the publication of what W. Kemp supposedly said, and the denial of the IBT, and the subsequent postings on the job site, could have again strained relations with the parties. I personally have mixed feelings on this separating from the NMFA and in the coming months will form an opinion. But for now, do my best to do what my people ask and vigorously enforce the agreement at hand.



As for the comment posted on the other thread, I am just getting sick of people coming onto an ABF thread, pleading their cases here, getting our guys ticked. We go to the YRC thread to find out what is going on there, and as I said, we are concerned, and we do care. Just no reason to come here and post assumptions that are just that, and get our guys upset, over something we have no control.

As a aside, being a steward for over five years now, I have complete confidence in our 710 Executive Committee. These guys walk the walk. They do what they say they are going to do, they stand up for their members, and have not let me down ever. They address difficult issues at the microphone at the meetings, and to date have not shut the mic off on anyone, no matter how heated the discussion gets. That shows me integrity and credibility. I challenge anyone to say that they have had the mic shut off on them in the last ten years. Because it hasn't.

The truth is the truth, and to some hurts at times. But as labor attorney Clarence Darrow said years ago. "The truth will set you free, even though you cannot touch its' coat tails".

If you need more, have your steward in Chicago get me your phone number and I will call you.
 
Here goes again, I will try to explain, again.

Back at contract time, ABF withdrew from TMI who is the association of company managers that negotiate on behalf of the companies. ABF intended to do whatever, but their trump card was shown in the months before, in Q reports, and meetings and reports from now defunct financial management companies.

While TMI (YRC)and TNFINC (IBT)were at the table hammering out a contract, freight division executives were keeping an eye and ear on what ABF was spoon feeding their contract employees.

ABF goes to the table, and were reminded that since they were previously negotiating directly with employees, instead of their representatives (IBT) they are treated to a me-too contract.

The contract goes for a vote and ratified, now time for the white paper contracts to their turn. 710 dock and yard contract turned down the first vote, ratified on the second. 705 is the sole hold out for the whole country. Demands included a pay increase superior to the NMFA, and some other stuff, which the companies would never agree to subject to the NMFA maintenance of standards article, which means if they get it, the whole rest of the country gets it. After a year or so of hold outs, the IBT sent in negotiators to see to it the problems get settled, and protect the jobs of every other nationwide freight employee involved indirectly. This explains white paper Chicago problem number one.

YRC comes to the IBT hat in hand, asking for a 10% concession. The IBT hammers out a deal, putting some 15% of the stock in escrow that would benefit employees should they fail. (I really do not know all the details of that and will not expand on the matter). The membership votes and approves the concessions. YRC is told this is it, there aint no more to give back.

Here they come again, looking for another 5%. More negotiations are put into play and they agree to what ever it is they agreed to. The membership votes again. Chicago is the big holdout. YRC threatens to close operations, with leaving Chicago with only end of the line terminal there.

Membership meeting at 710, Pat says he will stand behind his members, and he has to date, offers YRC guys a chance to voice their concerns, and hear the truth about what is going on in a special meeting for their guys, the next Sunday. My understanding is that there was a very small number of YRC guys there. The letter recommending the members vote in favor goes out. The YRC members again vote no. That is their right under the Constitution. Now there are several thousand jobs in Chicago on the chopping block, because the company will do their breakbulk and other operations out of the area, the road drivers can follow their work, the yard and dock guys cannot.
White paper problem number two and three.

The IBT convenes a meeting of the General Executive Committee, and decides that for the common good of everyone involved, takes action to secure these jobs. Did Pat vote in favor? Ask him before you blame him for any wrong doing. I suspect that what I know of Pat is that he stood up for his membership, and probably locked horns with most if not all on the Committee, including the General President.

What did ABF employees have to do with this? Nothing. It is my understanding that the decision to combine is done by local union, and not by company.

Will ABF ask to negotiate separately, for thier own contract again? I do not know. I suspect that with the latest goings on with the publication of what W. Kemp supposedly said, and the denial of the IBT, and the subsequent postings on the job site, could have again strained relations with the parties. I personally have mixed feelings on this separating from the NMFA and in the coming months will form an opinion. But for now, do my best to do what my people ask and vigorously enforce the agreement at hand.



As for the comment posted on the other thread, I am just getting sick of people coming onto an ABF thread, pleading their cases here, getting our guys ticked. We go to the YRC thread to find out what is going on there, and as I said, we are concerned, and we do care. Just no reason to come here and post assumptions that are just that, and get our guys upset, over something we have no control.

As a aside, being a steward for over five years now, I have complete confidence in our 710 Executive Committee. These guys walk the walk. They do what they say they are going to do, they stand up for their members, and have not let me down ever. They address difficult issues at the microphone at the meetings, and to date have not shut the mic off on anyone, no matter how heated the discussion gets. That shows me integrity and credibility. I challenge anyone to say that they have had the mic shut off on them in the last ten years. Because it hasn't.

The truth is the truth, and to some hurts at times. But as labor attorney Clarence Darrow said years ago. "The truth will set you free, even though you cannot touch its' coat tails".

If you need more, have your steward in Chicago get me your phone number and I will call you.

again i am not concerned in this forum about the YRC issue,,,i have a concern for its employees as i am sure anyone with any morals does..if they voted to not have concessions takin from them knowing good and well that they may lose everything then thats what they wanted...if the majority voted no to what the company wanted thats what i believe they should have gotten...that does'nt mean the international should step in and decide for a bunch of adults whats right for them..these people had a good idea of what the consequences were when they submitted their no votes,,..enough of that..

my big concern is what happens at contract time now... say and pray YRC makes it through this.. say there is'nt much of a break in the economic downfall of our country..now we go to negotiate our contract and we are stuck with basically everything negotiated internationally with YRC leading the negotiations(they are the majority)... they get kickbacks and take our pay back to 1980's standards and ABF says good for us we'll take that too(dont tell me its out of the question because at this point anything is possible).. then what do we do... start stocking up in purina?.. i am sure you know as much about this as any of us (nobody can see into the future).. but we can speculate and plan for the worst...

so in a round about i guess i am just concerned about what is going to happen down the road with all that is going on at the moment..any thoughts about this...i personally believe we need to start thinking about what effect the actions that are being takin now are going to do to us down the road... and if you look at whats going on now down the road is going to be bad
 
Hey they might shut the mic off at 705, but in 10 years of union meetings at 710, they have NEVER shut the mic off on anyone, ever.

Shutting the mic off might be they way they do things at 705, I don't know and really don't care, that is your business, and you need to vote OUT those who do.

My suggestion to you is to find your 710 steward that attended all of the last several months union meetings and find out the truth before you go posing half truths here.

I don't have to find a 710 steward, I go to the meetings, I know exactly what goes on there. I sit and watch Mr. D. click off the mic when they don't like what they hear! Hey MIKEY I'm glad you know that half of what I say is true, SOON YOU WILL KNOW IT'S ALL TRUE! I will be there Dec. 20 at the old hall. I would like to see Flynn try to talk his way out of his VIDEO! And the vote thats coming up this tuesday for YRC, I hope Mr. Flynn notifies the men that are laid off so they have a chance to vote. Remember he only cares about the DUES. Please MIKEY you said you would not post anymore remember! Stop all your BS. K:butt kiss:
 
Mikey please, your making my ears bleed.Go back to page 3, you end your sleep inducing post by promising " This is the last I am going to post on this issue" Then you go on to post 5 more times. I think your a Chicagoan, why don't you go down to Bughouse Square and you can get up on the soapbox and pontificate all day long. By the way in post on page three you claim to know Mr. Whitepaper quite well, if this is so, it should be a simple matter of asking him how he voted at the ex. board meeting. Now please pass the sominex.
 
Mikey please, your making my ears bleed.Go back to page 3, you end your sleep inducing post by promising " This is the last I am going to post on this issue" Then you go on to post 5 more times. I think your a Chicagoan, why don't you go down to Bughouse Square and you can get up on the soapbox and pontificate all day long. By the way in post on page three you claim to know Mr. Whitepaper quite well, if this is so, it should be a simple matter of asking him how he voted at the ex. board meeting. Now please pass the sominex.


:biglaugh: :biglaugh:
 
i am just concerned about what is going to happen down the road with all that is going on at the moment

I guess we will just have to wait and see. The current contract expires in 2013, and until 2012 rolls around, the time that will benchmark negotiations for the next contract, we will just have to do the best with what we've got. I really don't think its fair to speculate the future at this point in about the next contract, or who will be a party thereof.
 
Mikey please, your making my ears bleed.Go back to page 3, you end your sleep inducing post by promising " This is the last I am going to post on this issue" Then you go on to post 5 more times. I think your a Chicagoan, why don't you go down to Bughouse Square and you can get up on the soapbox and pontificate all day long. By the way in post on page three you claim to know Mr. Whitepaper quite well, if this is so, it should be a simple matter of asking him how he voted at the ex. board meeting. Now please pass the sominex.



The truth hurts sometimes doesn't it? Your ears are bleeding because of one of two reasons. You either can't handle the truth, or you didn't get the desired response on this thread that you thought you were going to get. I have a call in to Mr. Flynn and expect to talk to him tomorrow afternoon. My suggestion to you is to call YOUR principal officer and question him on this matter. That is if you have the testicular fortitude to do so. My guess is that your estrogen level will ramp up and not call. Bughouse Square, hmmmm, Let's see, Dunning closed years ago, so you don't live there, so my guess, is you live either at Oak Forest, or Tinley Park. I would like to set my soap box up where you could hear me clearly, so which one is it?
 
I know exactly what goes on there. I sit and watch Mr. D. click off the mic when they don't like what they hear!

LIE NO 1

Hey MIKEY I'm glad you know that half of what I say is true, SOON YOU WILL KNOW IT'S ALL TRUE! I will be there Dec. 20 at the old hall. I would like to see Flynn try to talk his way out of his VIDEO!

Pat has already talked about this video and its' contents at previous meetings. I thought you were there when it came out. Remember you go to all the meetings. LIE NO 2

And the vote thats coming up this tuesday for YRC,

POST THIS ON THE YRC THREAD WE DON'T VOTE ON THIS


Remember he only cares about the DUES. LIE NO 3


Please MIKEY you said you would not post anymore remember!

I said that was all I had to say on the matter, problem is mindless idiots such as yourself need to be explained to several times, several different ways, and we can only hope that you get the picture. I know that the truth escapes you and the fictional scenario that you try to sell here ain't selling. That being the case, I won't go until you figure out that intentional BS has no place here.

Since you will be there, I am sure since your stance here is so rock solid, that you will get to the microphone, and call the officers of our local on their shortcomings. Otherwise I will figure that you are just another blowhard, making noise, and trying to cause trouble where there really is no trouble. At least bring your sorry jones to call Pat on this personally, to his face.
 
I guess we will just have to wait and see. The current contract expires in 2013, and until 2012 rolls around, the time that will benchmark negotiations for the next contract, we will just have to do the best with what we've got. I really don't think its fair to speculate the future at this point in about the next contract, or who will be a party thereof.

you dont think its fair to speculate the future at this point?
maybe thats the problem..nobody looks down the road at the actions they are taking and how it will effect their futures...the people changing all of the rules here need to start looking at long term effects to their actions and how it's going to effect the members that THEY WORK FOR!!!!!!!we pay their discustingly gross salaries..we are the ones doing all the work making them rich.. giving them cars to drive .. giving them the ability to live their lavish life styles..all at the same time we the people are getting low wage increases and watching our benefits decrease..and now with the actions they are taking i am seeing reversals of peoples cash inflow..we have put up with enough BS from this.. go ahead and tell me to go to a meeting and voice my opinion..i would but after a decade and a half at the same company i cant get a sunday off..funny thing is if you think about it i would like to have seen them come to ABF(the terminal not the company)when they were deciding to take things away from us(white paper)and tell us what the plan was...give us an idea of what was going on.. ask us if this is what we want...how can they make these huge devistating decisions without even coming to the members with it...i know same old song and dance..go to a meeting and talk to them...well like i said..gotta work that day!!!!..
one more thing.. maybe they need to start coming out to the terminals more often to let us voice our opinions to them before they do these things.. hell you know how little i see my Business Agent...thats pathetic with the money he makes...
 
you dont think its fair to speculate the future at this point?
maybe thats the problem..nobody looks down the road at the actions they are taking and how it will effect their futures...the people changing all of the rules here need to start looking at long term effects to their actions and how it's going to effect the members that THEY WORK FOR!!!!!!!we pay their discustingly gross salaries..we are the ones doing all the work making them rich.. giving them cars to drive .. giving them the ability to live their lavish life styles..all at the same time we the people are getting low wage increases and watching our benefits decrease..and now with the actions they are taking i am seeing reversals of peoples cash inflow..we have put up with enough BS from this.. go ahead and tell me to go to a meeting and voice my opinion..i would but after a decade and a half at the same company i cant get a sunday off..funny thing is if you think about it i would like to have seen them come to ABF(the terminal not the company)when they were deciding to take things away from us(white paper)and tell us what the plan was...give us an idea of what was going on.. ask us if this is what we want...how can they make these huge devistating decisions without even coming to the members with it...i know same old song and dance..go to a meeting and talk to them...well like i said..gotta work that day!!!!..
one more thing.. maybe they need to start coming out to the terminals more often to let us voice our opinions to them before they do these things.. hell you know how little i see my Business Agent...thats pathetic with the money he makes...


Good post Dockit!

Your right, Everything that happens to YRC may happen to us. Just because I go by 705irishsetter doesn't mean that I'm 705, my Father was a Driver for over 40 years and I have great respect for most of them. And as far as Mikey goes I am telling the truth. And if you ever went to a meeting you feel like we work for them!
 
Mikey you say I can't handle the truth, did you stand infront of the mirror and practice saying that just like Jack Nicholson? Mikey this must be your seventh post since you said you weren't going to post on the subject again. You mention testicular fortitude and estrogen in your rant. You certainly are strong in the area of hormones but you don't know ::shit:: about union affairs. Did you ask Mr. Whitepaper in your phone conversation, how he voted at the executive board meeting? Now thats the most important question to answer and this time tell the truth it will make you feel real good. If the answer to this question is that he abstained on this vote how would that make you feel? Now be truthful
 
Did you ask Mr. Whitepaper in your phone conversation, how he voted at the executive board meeting? Now thats the most important question to answer and this time tell the truth it will make you feel real good.


Yes I did ask, and the answer was that because our local was involved, he was not allowed to vote on this. The same rules that are invoked at JAC committees and the like. That is the truth, and if you cannot believe me, grow some nads and ask him yourself.

As far as not knowing crap about union affairs......I take that as a compliment from you.
 
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