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BIG STEVE

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well abf's intentions are on the table

abf is withdrawing from TMI
:smilie_132: "big deal"

competing with the non unions is the priority
"no problem"
how do we acheive that bob?
we need more flexibility guys!
pse was just the tip of the iceberg! we need much much more
we need access to and control of your pension money at lower than market rates:toxic:
your H&W is too costly, don't worry guys we'll do what's best for you!!!!! trust us we know what you need
we need similar start times like conway and old d and upsf have which fluctuate and change according to freight flow and arrival times
they have7am 7:30am 9:30am 10:00 am 12pm 1pm start times that can be adjusted daily

they have part timers on the dock
road men make yard moves
need i go on and on

i know bob why don't we just rip up the nmfa and just grant your wishlist:hysterical: :butt kiss:
now what do you guys think about bob's wishlist?
should we kiss his ***?
 
You are not kissing his *** you are securing your future. Is NMFA going to pay for your salary and H&W if ABF goes the way of so many before? And just for your info ABF would not control the pension money. It would be in a fund just like it is now, just without the 14+billion underfunding. Actually more than likely you would have better control over where your money is invested. It is not ABF's intention to be a non-union company... They want representation for their labor but feel the h&W pension can be done to the same quality and level without the current baggage of the out of biz carriers.
 
I think the key word in this whole issue,may be obligation.

All Teamster companies are olbligated to honor the contract.
If they have no contract,they will have no obligation to honor anything.

There by not paying into any pension plan,or helping out very much with employee health benefits.

In other words all trucking companies can offer as little as possioble to their employees to keep them working for them.

This may be just the way I'm looking at this issue.
I feel the government really started killing the LTL trucking industry when they deregulated the rates.

Now we all are seeing companies trying to get away with as much as they can,and still retain their work force.
 
I Hope Hoffa Our Great Worthless Leader Gives Us The Right To Vote On The Pullout Of The Pension. Then It Will Be Up To Us The Men To Vote Up Or Down. Only The Men At Abf Have The Capability If We Don't Like What We See To Shove It Up Bob Davison Rearend And Give Him The Promotion He Deserves
 
Mister Freight said:
You are not kissing his *** you are securing your future. Is NMFA going to pay for your salary and H&W if ABF goes the way of so many before? And just for your info ABF would not control the pension money. It would be in a fund just like it is now, just without the 14+billion underfunding. Actually more than likely you would have better control over where your money is invested. It is not ABF's intention to be a non-union company... They want representation for their labor but feel the h&W pension can be done to the same quality and level without the current baggage of the out of biz carriers.
Click to expand...

hey brother just look at what conway did to their guys
the company controls the pension
ours will not be just like it is currently
the company will administer it sure but they will also use it as a personal bank to borrow from at below market rates something they cannot do currently as the fund lends at current market rates
AT TERMS THEY WILL SET
it costs currently to administer central states over 3 mil per year
the company will charge the fund the same amount but manage it with existing employees they currently pay so this 3 mil+ is a bonus
low interest loans a bonus
their withdrawal liability that they will have to pay will be over 10 - 15 years
god forbid what would happen if they go belly up without paying that money, without paying back whatever money they will borrow

big bob just hooked a big one with you as i am sure there are a few more of you out there

hey you are entitled to your oppinion no problem but don't hit me with your gloom and doom remarks /sentiments
"where are you going to work when ABF is gone"
there was life b4 ABF and there will life after ABF brother
so don't just sit there and act like a mushroom where they keep you in the dark and feed you a lot of manure
as far as the health portion of our H&W is concerned they have no majic bullet as well as the current fund managers don't have one
health bennies are on a downward spiral no matter who adminsters it
the really big difference is with the current managers as opposed to company control the cuts in bennies will be at a much slower pace
with the companies controlling them it will be at their pace which will obviously geared to their best interests rather than ours

ok we won't be kissing his *** i'll agree
we will be securing their future not ours
sure our futures will follow but at what expense? expenses charged to us exclusively
 
Look at the big picture...

big steve,

big steve, thanks for the input. I'm not a fish and I can see the big picture and can think for myself. No doom and gloom here, just stating fact, look at biz levels and stock prices and who is growing and who is not. Look at the O.R.s on every earnings report. Look who has pricing advantage, not the Union carriers. Price is the driving force when customers look at how they will route their freight.

Back to the Pension issue, First of all you need to understand the legal governing of Pension Funds public sector law and private sector law. Alot of eyes are on pension funds now and how they are administered.

Second ABF will be working "with" the IBT and the central states among others to develop how the fund is administered. So this is not a "we will tell you how its going to be" thing. The terms will be set and agreed to by ABF and the Union. You will have input, so don't fear the people who are "thinking for you now" will continue to do that throughout the negotiations.

What does $14+ billion underfunded mean to you? How did it get that way? How is that going to be fully funded/corrected? The 5 union carriers left can't continue to carry that burden and insure that all members get what was promised when all this was established.

Also look at what this will do for Hoffa. If he is able to get UPS to agree to the price tag for the pullout of which will probably be in the ten(s) of billions and then get ABF to pay whatever price is determined at a future time. YRC probably does not have the funds to pay a pullout charge. However, with UPS/ABF he has almost insured the continued existence of what is left of the union carriers pensions, and then all of a sudden he is a hero...

ABF wants happy employees whether union or non. Mgmt knows if the employees are not happy it will have an impact on quality and customer relations. Management especially the middle mgmt wants to keep their jobs I'm sure.

With your stance in your post you are already pulling negativity into the deal. In business today, you have to have the willingness to work together to come to an agreement that works for both parties. Sure negotiations are part of that but you get efficient and better results when you work on a positive. Plus you display to other parties/public or private sector what a professional organization the IBT is when it comes to business relations.
 
DUH....one of the only reasons we put up with the lousey schedules and bare tractors is because of the H & W and pension....sounds like Mr. Freight might be alittle cpy brain washed. Try and recruit a driver with our equipment and open schedule, feast or famine, with anything other than the Teamster H&W, pension and pay. See what they get. Oblay ispan low??? spelling ain't correst but comprenday?
 
Where are all you guys from? You guys are way too enchanted with your jobs to be from the warning letter capitol Stalag 034.
 
mr freight
what any existing multi employer funds need at this point in time are increased contributions
i'm sure there is no argument there
one of two basic things/ or a combination of both can acheive this "majic bullet"
additional contributions from the employers or
new members/participants
neither is currently occurring
new contributions from the upcoming NMFA negotiations are on the horizon but that only will slightly delay facing the inevitable eventual music
these things would certainly ease the burden
the flip side of more contributions is the negative impact on these unionized carriers' ability to compete with non union carriers in the market place so now we have a proverbial "monkey wrench"
so what's the answer?
they way you look at it along with the companies seems to be is screw those who worked for defunct carriers and let us concentrate on who's left
that doesn't sound like union principles to me
is there an answer ? i think so but for all express purposes it is a complicated one for sure
here's some thoughts
abf and many other companies could ease the burden if they would hire some new employees
something they more or less refuse to do
i do not know where you are from but in my area and many others their intentions are simply this
do more with less
work the existing work force 60 hours
use cartage to the maximum
shrink the seniority rosters via attrition
then they use the excuse freight levels are down but so is manpower at a greater rate

now i do not know for sure if they wish to hurt or impact multi employer funds they are a part of intentionally but what i do see is a clearly negative impact on those funds thru the attrition effect
ups can afford increased contributions for sure as the impact on their competitive equity would be minimal at best
or they can add more full timers to the job from their part time rosters, if anything that would seem a reasonable request, right? then why do they resist? the union has to constantly stay on their backs for this to happen, why?
pulling out of multi employer funds accomplishes one certain thing for these companies
their intentions are clear as anyone who believes they, meaning all companies have their workers future best interest at heart is nothing short of a foolish belief!!!
all these companies wish to do is cut their losses as they care less about you
by that i mean simply, the longer they remain part of these funds the more their withdrawal liability increases along with whatever they have to continually contribute on a regular basis
in short they wish to curtail the inevitable, higher costs period
higher withdrawal fees or an almost certain increase in current contributions( mandated by law )

in addition ups i believe agreed with the CSPF to pay in excess of 5 billion to be able to withdraw not the 10's of billion you stated

ABF put a number on the table of 650 mil which i think if an agreement is reached will almost certainly be substantialy higher

i say if they wish to withdraw then pay what it would take to fully fund the fund's current liabilities so no one is left hanging
but in order to achieve that YRC would have to cough up a number similar to UPS and that doesn't seem likely
 
mr freight
you stated,"ABF wants happy employees whether union or non. Mgmt knows if the employees are not happy it will have an impact on quality and customer relations. Management especially the middle mgmt wants to keep their jobs I'm sure."
yes abf wants happy employees under their terms not mutually agreed to terms. we all want our jobs to be secure their is no argument there but guy don't be so willing to take their position as that just makes our position that much weaker
think about it
just because they say we need this or that in order to compete does not make it true

in reality we placed ourselves in the present dilema
meaning we, being the entire union, IBT,Locals and members by being complacent from the mid 70's to the present on the main solution to the dilema we now face
ORGANIZING
 
Mister Freight said:
big steve,

big steve, thanks for the input. I'm not a fish and I can see the big picture and can think for myself. No doom and gloom here, just stating fact, look at biz levels and stock prices and who is growing and who is not. Look at the O.R.s on every earnings report. Look who has pricing advantage, not the Union carriers. Price is the driving force when customers look at how they will route their freight.

Back to the Pension issue, First of all you need to understand the legal governing of Pension Funds public sector law and private sector law. Alot of eyes are on pension funds now and how they are administered.

Second ABF will be working "with" the IBT and the central states among others to develop how the fund is administered. So this is not a "we will tell you how its going to be" thing. The terms will be set and agreed to by ABF and the Union. You will have input, so don't fear the people who are "thinking for you now" will continue to do that throughout the negotiations.

What does $14+ billion underfunded mean to you? How did it get that way? How is that going to be fully funded/corrected? The 5 union carriers left can't continue to carry that burden and insure that all members get what was promised when all this was established.

Also look at what this will do for Hoffa. If he is able to get UPS to agree to the price tag for the pullout of which will probably be in the ten(s) of billions and then get ABF to pay whatever price is determined at a future time. YRC probably does not have the funds to pay a pullout charge. However, with UPS/ABF he has almost insured the continued existence of what is left of the union carriers pensions, and then all of a sudden he is a hero...

ABF wants happy employees whether union or non. Mgmt knows if the employees are not happy it will have an impact on quality and customer relations. Management especially the middle mgmt wants to keep their jobs I'm sure.

With your stance in your post you are already pulling negativity into the deal. In business today, you have to have the willingness to work together to come to an agreement that works for both parties. Sure negotiations are part of that but you get efficient and better results when you work on a positive. Plus you display to other parties/public or private sector what a professional organization the IBT is when it comes to business relations.
Click to expand...


Good Post!
 
Have you poeple looked at the pension reform act that Mr. bush signed in law last year.It is to keep defined benefits pension out of having the goverment making your pension payments.So for the Teamsters that are in underfunded pensions the company's have to come up with more money to have them fully funded in the next 15 years.So the funds that are do well it is a increase in pension contribution as you can not give more to one fund and not the other's.This is why were talking about the pension and pulling out of the funds is the central states fund is in need of more cash. Will company's pull out of central states only and attack other's later.
 
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