TForce | New Union

[kb47]

This just what ups planned with this apwa. There behind it and these idiot's fall for it. And i'm not pro union THE ONE CROOK'S WITH POWER AND THE OTHER'S WANT TO BE CROOK'S. Nothing but a company union this awpa it's a joke. And don't come looking for my money ups is already getting it. And then give money to there new union. Ask any ups man or woman and they know nothing about it. And they don't want to know there happy.

 

[greenbean]

lighten us

Buster,
It becomes obvious in debates when one of the parties lacks substitive arguements that they must use mischaracterizations and misrepresentation of their opponent. In my above post, I discussed issues and ideas which would improve the quality of life for UPSF employees. Why is it that Teamster BA's and stewards like yourself cannot do the same? Let's hear some hard responses from Teamster supporters on the true issues that will determine this NLRB vote:

INSURANCE:

[list type=decimal]
[*]What insurance company will be handling UPSF benefits? IBT owned, monopolized insurance or publicly traded insurance(BCBS, Cigna, United Healthcare) which is exposed to free market prices?
[*]As an employee, what will my premiums be?
[*]Will there be major-medical coverage?
[*]If I get sick and am unable to work, will I lose my insurance? (out-of-work rule)
[*]For a UPSF retiree , what will my premiums be?
[*]Will there be a lifetime max payout and how much?
[*]As a retiree, will dental/vision be included in this insurance?
[/LIST]
PENSION:
[list type=decimal]
[*]The current UPSF plan is 102% funded. If UPSF goes Teamsters, will this funding level be effected?
[*]For a UPSF employee with 25 years with Overnite, how much credit will be given for years worked prior to joining IBT? [*]I enjoy fishing. If I choose to work at the BassMasters outlet after retirement, will this effect my pension payout?
[*]In the event of my death, will my spouse continue to receive my full pension?
[*]Upon the demise of both me and my spouse, what happens to the remainder of my pension? [*]My pension is my money that I workerd for. Can I expect to have the opportunity to write into my will how my pension payout be handled upon my death?
[/LIST]


These are the issues. I've tackled the tough questions on this webboard with frankness. Let's see the IBT answer some tough questions.

what premiums,:tongue0015: thats part of your dues.
Why dont you asked the social security what happens to the money you put in there all these years.(who gets that after you and your spouse dies)

 

[theoriginalwebidiot]

you liberals don't want a comprehensive plan for private investment that why there is not money in ss ....catch a clue....o will take care of your pension for you 60 per year wow wow wow...this may buy that cabin cruiser and you head to the tropic......with buckets of Kerry money....

 

[Equalizer]

Steve5 asks,

What vote do you think I'm talking about.

I thought maybe you knew of a vote or a terminal nearing a vote that I had not heard of.

Steve5 says,

No don't think there will be a nationwide vote of some kind, Your under estimating my understanding.

I'm not under estimating your understanding at all. I completely understand you.

Steve5 says,

If say, ABQ had a vote when it came time to do so, The vote was split 3 ways. 3ways between the apwa, Teamsters, and non-union, neither of which had 50%+1, the company would win staying non-union.

Someone tell me that this will never happen, and if not,why.

If said theory that you purpose happens there will be multiple winners and losers. The company would win because each union is cancelling the other out, but for those that do not choose to be represented by either party win as well. The losers will have to try again a year later. I understand what you were saying and what you are saying now. You can blame the APWA if you want for this scenario, but if the IBT had not done what they did, this conversation wouldn't be taking place. I can't tell you that this will never happen because it may very well be the case at several terminals, but you have to respect the choices made by those individuals.

Steve5 asks,

Why do you consider this a fight?

It's a fight for representation that I'm sure the company doesn't want to see and a fight to stay IBT free.

Equalizer

 

[Equalizer]

hiro@342 asked,

I'm very curious Equalizer. Why are you so dead set against the Teamsters?

Howdy neighbor.
Seeing how you are from the local that harrassed us during the strike, threatened, used violence for intimidation, etc. etc., , I would think you would know already. You had to have seen and heard what went on. I could go on and on, but what would be the point? We are excercising our American given right of freedom to choose and we choose the organization that has not betrayed us, lied to us, threatened us, commited criminal acts of violence against us, harassed our families, etc, etc, etc. I do not associate with these kind of people and never will.

Equalizer

 

[hilo342]

I think you are condemning a whole organization simply for the actions of a few. As you also know, there was a lot of threats, acts of violence, etc. from former OVNT employees who crossed picket lines as well. Many Teamster supporters who formally worked at OVNT who are now working at Roadway and Yellow tell a different story than you do.

 

[CFer]

What vote do you think I'm talking about. I've given you too much credit I guess.

No don't think there will be a nationwide vote of some kind, Your under estimating my understanding.

Let me explain myself to where YOU can understand.

If say, ABQ had a vote when it came time to do so, The vote was split 3 ways. 3ways between the apwa, Teamsters, and non-union, neither of which had 50%+1, the company would win staying non-union.

Someone tell me that this will never happen, and if not,why.

It can happen exactly as you described Steve and thats exactly what the APWA and UPS are hoping for.

There is no such thing as the APWA union. Maybe on paper it exists but thats about it.

The APWA is nothing more than a company tool to attempt to beat the Teamsters and from what I've read from the members here, not many people are falling for it

 

[CFer]

Most current info i have on the Central States Pension Fund was for 2004. The value of plan assets, after subtracting liabilities of the plan, was $18,717,532,696 as of Dec. 31,2004, compared to $17,725,135,566 AS OF jAN. 1, 2004. During the plan year the plan experienced an increase in its net assets of $992,397,130. Mustache Retired Roadway

Good info mustache. It's good to see people posting real facts instead of taking things out of context and putting their spin on it to suit their agenda.

 

[CFer]

One more point that caught my attention that I forgot to mention.
The union busting law firm that the APWA has "hired" is based in Richmond Va. Isin't that where the UPSF offices are located?

I am actually not one to subscribe to conspiracy theories but sometimes certain facts get my attention that just can't be ignored

 

[Equalizer]

hilo@342 says,

I think you are condemning a whole organization simply for the actions of a few

It was the leader of said organization that said," We will get a contract or we will put you out of business". As far as a few, we had 40 city drivers at that time. Everday, when they left to do their deliveries, 3 to 4 Teamsters followed each one. So if my math is correct that would be 120 to 160 people. Quite more than just a few. Every driver had at least one of the following happen to them:
Airlines being cut, door latch padlocked, door cables cut, not to mention at every customer they yelled that this company is going under, do not use them or your freight will get stuck in the system.

hilo@342 says,

As you also know, there was a lot of threats, acts of violence, etc. from former OVNT employees who crossed picket lines as well.

I do not doubt this one bit. I personally did not see this, but I believe you when you say this. Some people will only take so much before they fight back. Just remember who drew first. We were not gonna be put out of a job just because the IBT wanted it that way.

Hilo@342 says,

Many Teamster supporters who formally worked at OVNT who are now working at Roadway and Yellow tell a different story than you do.

I'm sure they do. Everyone has their side of a story. Did they mention how the IBT left them out to dry and didn't even bother to show up for the decertification election? We have several individuals that are currently working that were out the entire duration of the strike and they will be the first say NO to the IBT. They were abandoned by the IBT. As I said earlier I do not associate with people like this now or ever.

Equalizer

 

[accelerator]

Any answers boys? Or just more talk distracting from the real issues?

It is quite obvious none of you followed up on the reports you people posted about the helth and pention fund, as you see yourself, these documents were posted in 2003 - 2004, but you never saw the 2005 followup did you, as a matter of fact it was CFER that posted it. I think.

 

[accelerator]

One more point that caught my attention that I forgot to mention.
The union busting law firm that the APWA has "hired" is based in Richmond Va. Isin't that where the UPSF offices are located?

I am actually not one to subscribe to conspiracy theories but sometimes certain facts get my attention that just can't be ignored

They all play golf together cfer, it's a loosing battle. Like bush say's," stay the coarse" 51% will come quick.... with a bit of tangebility.

 

[accelerator]

hiro@342 asked,



Howdy neighbor.
Seeing how you are from the local that harrassed us during the strike, threatened, used violence for intimidation, etc. etc., , I would think you would know already. You had to have seen and heard what went on. I could go on and on, but what would be the point? We are excercising our American given right of freedom to choose and we choose the organization that has not betrayed us, lied to us, threatened us, commited criminal acts of violence against us, harassed our families, etc, etc, etc. I do not associate with these kind of people and never will.

Equalizer

With all due respect Equilizer , and I understand your position of coarse,you are stereotyping a whole entity for the horrific act's of a few. And as I said before, you can alway's practice the american dream being part of the TDU and I will back that move 100%. A bit of revenge I mite add. Nothing like a extremist movement. It worked for the alternate lifestyles, after all they have brokeback mtn.

 

[accelerator]

Most current info i have on the Central States Pension Fund was for 2004. The value of plan assets, after subtracting liabilities of the plan, was $18,717,532,696 as of Dec. 31,2004, compared to $17,725,135,566 AS OF jAN. 1, 2004. During the plan year the plan experienced an increase in its net assets of $992,397,130. Mustache Retired Roadway

There is also a statement that read ,if the health and welfare fund proposes an increase of just 2% over the next 10 years ,this will infact relieve the threat of bankruptcy of the fund's, but will also compensate for contribution deficts.

 

[greenbean]

next ?

OK, If 90% of UPS in your area want a change. Why has the APWA done nothing to make the changes that these UPS employee's wan't? The APWA has had a few years to make these changes and nothing yet? Is it a lack of members with no bargaining or negotiating power.

if 90% want apwa why are they still teamsters your are able to decertify

 

[greenbean]

CFer,
In reply to your original question:
The current PARCEL RETIREMENT situation:
I give you this because should you go with IBT this is what you should expect:
As a standard, pension funds provide health insurance up to age 62 when Medicare takes over. Central States offers retirees below that age a monthly premium of $1240 which gives them no vision, no dental and a LIFETIME max of $150,000. If you use that up before medicare, then you're SOL. E**** said he priced a premium through his personal insurance company which was re-selling BCBS at a monthly rate of around $625/month and would give a lifetime max of $1million and better coverage. I suggest you go to the BCBS website or even several insurance websites and quote yourself to get an idea of what the market is offering currently. Central States is providing such poor insurance because they have to reallocate health insurance money to the pension fund to keep it solvent. Meanwhile, Fred G*****, CS fund manager, will receive premium health insurance for life as well as a $1million pension payout when he retires.

APWA's proposals reflect the unstrained financial position that they will enjoy when UPS pension/health insurance money will provide benefits to UPS employees only. APWA is capable of offering the retirement premium of $300/month to those under 62 for the following reasons:

• APWA will be purchasing insurance directly from the insurance companies.

• There is significant bargaining power when you approach an insurance company with the opportunity to land a policy covering 217,000 employees of an extremely solvent and profitable company such as UPS

• Herein lies the core answer to your question. The APWA pension has calculated into its payout plan and investment strategy the need to provide insurance coverage between the time you retire and the time Medicare kicks in. Thus, the $300 is not the actual amount of your total premium. This reflects the balance remaining after your pension has already paid its monthly portion. Once again, this is possible because your pension contributions pay only for your retirement benefits.

• The $300 amount reflects the premium you would pay until age 62 if you retired today. Reflecting rising healthcare costs, should the insurance premium increase tomorrow to $350 and you retire tomorrow, you would pay that amount until age 62. Prices would be fixed annually or biannually and would be renegotiated between APWA and the insurance provider at that time. The buying power that APWA would enjoy works to improve your insurance at the lowest possible rate. IBT does not take advantage of this buying power because it relies on its insurance plans to help finance the pension fund deficiencies.

The current FREIGHT retirement situation:
Should you choose to go with IBT, expect something very similar to the above examples. The insurance benefits that IBT plans are offering are being sacrificed to maintain the pension funding levels. It is a sinking ship.

APWA insurance benefits for the Blue side retirees are identical to the Parcel benefits. This would likely result in an improvement in health insurance upon retirement when compared to the coverage you carry as an active employee. You can see the details of this coverage on the APWA website.

The Active Employee situation:
Parcel employees do not pay for health insurance. This expense is covered in full by UPS and is a part of the contract with IBT which stipulates that UPS must purchase insurance from the financially unstable Teamster plans. On average, UPS pays a premium of $975/month per employee.

APWA insurance plans are defined on their website. These benefits are possible as a result of APWA using its buying power to find its members the best deal. When I priced a 56 yo couple for health insurance on BCBS, the ranges of premiums were from $200 to $1200. UPS's monthly contribution of $975 could easily purchase good coverage when applying the purchasing power the APWA would have available.

Currently Freight employees pay around $250/month out of pocket on premiums. APWA would negotiate to have the entire premium covered by UPS. In addition, they would seek to have your major medical coverage restored and the out-of-work rule reversed so that in the case of debilitating disease which precludes you from working, you will not lose your insurance.


APWA--Integrity. Honor. Justice.

You need members first before you provide anything

 

[greenbean]

Just where is the choice when members that actually want a union lose because the company hires a union busting law firm to form sham of a union to try and assure the employees never get the required 50%+1 vote?




This would be far from the first time that Overnite has been found guilty of violating labor laws


And who's behind Van and Danny?

maybe UPS or right to work

 

[greenbean]

1. is the UPSF 102% funded where did you get that info.
2.if we go teamsters the in my area it will be CENTRAL PA and i think that what you pay dues for.
3. you ask the IBT that
4. Does she recieve your full pay check
5. selfish are we - this is not the energizer bunny here folks it doesnt keep going -going
6. social security is a pension also but its alot different than a 401k

 

[Equalizer]

Accelerator said,

With all due respect Equilizer , and I understand your position of coarse,you are stereotyping a whole entity for the horrific act's of a few.

Those few that you speak of were all across the entire Nation commiting the same criminal acts. The locals are responsible for the actions back then, but MR. H Lead the way with "contract or we will put you out of business". I will agree that the IBT does have some high quality people within. Heck on this board are quite a few Teamsters that are very intelligent and have great intentions.

Accelerator said,

And as I said before, you can alway's practice the american dream being part of the TDU and I will back that move 100%.

So anyone that dislikes the current leader of the IBT or wants to represented by someone else is TDU? The APWA is not affiliated with the TDU.

Accelerator said,

Nothing like a extremist movement.

If wanting to have a different organization represent us then I suppose extremist is a word to use, but I would disagree with that statement. I don't consider myself an extremist in anyway, shape, or form. As far as brokeback mountain, never seen it nor do I want to.

Equalizer

 

[hilo342]

To Equalizer,
It is apparent you have made up your mind regarding your lack of support of the Teamsters. And that is your right as a American and as employee of UPSF. And I respect that. But ask yourself this. You obviously must have crossed the picket lines in 1999 when the Teamsters were your legally recognized bargaining agent. And since then, the ones that supported the Teamsters have either been fired or left voluntarily. So all thats left in Kansas City anyway, are either workers that feel like you do or others who really don't care about a Union one way or the other. Now, suppose your APWA is recognized as your bargaining agent. And UPSF fails to "bargain in good faith" with them. And in order to get a contract you go out on strike. You crossed a picket line before. And many like you did too. Will you again? Will others? Will Teamsters honor your picket lines? Will UPS parcel? Will you have the support of the AFL-CIO?
It is just my opinion you are throwing your money away supporting a paper tiger like the APWA who at best is a start up union with no real national support, and at the worst a company sponsored union that doesn't really have your best interest at heart. Either way your still better off with the Teamsters, despite all there faults. Or no union at all. Which i suspect you prefer anyway.
Thank you for letting me express my opinion.
HILO