No Thanks

Discussion in 'Oak Harbor' started by okharbor, Jan 14, 2007.

  1. okharbor

    okharbor New Member

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    Why do union guys believe they need to save non-union guys?...I don't want to be a teamster...I can take care of myself...If you want a union job,go work for a union company..leave mine alone.Thanks.
     
  2. freightpunk

    freightpunk Member

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    What are you referring too exactly?
    OK,let us know when your ready to retire and have a crummy 401k check left to survive on and pay huge out of pocket medical expenses.What terminal are you out of? and why are you so anti-union?If your gonna complain about it,at least put up a good argument with some facts...
     
  3. DMT

    DMT Well-Known Member

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    to each of us our choice.choice being the word.it is my responsibility to provide for my future not my employer or the government.i do not believe that social sercurity will be there for me and it is my opinion that your pension will not be there for you in the way it has been told it would.example given is the airlines are dropping their pensions and the governments are picking them up and what will be distributed is not what you were promised or told.so i will put my money in 401ks and savings accounts for my future thank you and if i am wrong on my belief then it is my loss not yours.we all choose where we work and i do not work for a union and i do not put down people who do,because they are doing what they believe and more power to them,but i do not like union members telling me i am wrong because i don't work for a union,it is my choice.
     
  4. freightpunk

    freightpunk Member

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    I undertsand your opinion,and thanks for the response.However here's some info that you have wrong.The airlines were not engaged in multi-employer pensions.They were privately held which makes a huge difference.The Western Pension Conference has been around since 1955 and has never failed to deliver a payment,you can even call the trust to verify that one.But your right when you say it's a choice,but if you go to work for a company that is a majority union,your gonna have to expect that.I agree that you should'nt put all your eggs in one basket,I myself invest in other things besides my Teamster pension,it only makes senses.The more you invest,the better your return.I wish you luck on your endeavors,I myself will remain a proud Teamster.If you don't mind i'm curious who you work for.
     
  5. SMOKESTACK

    SMOKESTACK Administrator Staff Member

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    Welcome ''okharbor'' you will find this place is addicting .
     
  6. silvertooth

    silvertooth Member

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    From your screen name I can only assume you work for OHFL, I don't feel the need to "save" you. Truth is, if you do work for OHFL then you work for a union carrier. Organizing your particular terminal is in our best interests, the positive benefits for you are nice, but the real motive is to increase wages and salary through the entire network and to protect work for the drivers so we don't see England trucks hauling the freight.

    I have met allot of guys who feel the way you do particularly at first, so I would say the same thing to you. If a majority of your co-workers decide they would like to be union and you don't like it than leave, and go work for a non-union outfit.

    I saw some mention of pension, I have my Master Freight Contract here, and I am just going to drop some numbers leaving out the pension, and countless other protections that make our jobs better.

    *for employees with 2 years of service*
    Hourly P&D Wages effective 4/1/07 -$22.26.5

    OTR Wages effective 4/1/07 - 58.97.5 cpm
    $22.05hr

    Health and welfare contributions $781.69 monthly with no out of pocket costs

    5 paid sick days @8hrs pay

    8 paid Holidays, your birthday, anniversary date and three personal holidays -@8hrs pay

    2 weeks paid vacation %based on average daily pay (overtime included)

    overtime after 8hrs @ 1+1/2 times pay and after 8hrs and on sixth day worked

    2X pay on your seventh day and premium holidays

    Good luck to you.

    Happy MLK Day!
    "In our glorious fight for civil rights, we must guard against being fooled by false slogans, as 'right-to-work.' It provides no 'rights' and no 'works.' Its purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining... We demand this fraud be stopped."
    Martin Luther King, Jr.
     
  7. Dipstick

    Dipstick New Member

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    Silvertooth, you made an interesting statement, "Organizing your particular terminal is in our best interests, the positive benefits for you are nice, but the real motive is to increase wages and salary ...

    Your said that organizing your particular terminals is in "our" best interest, not YOUR best interest. You also said the real motive is to increase wages and salary. Wrong. The real motive is to increase the coffers of the union. The union, any union, is a business just like IBM, General Electric and General Motors. The unions main goal is profit just like any other business. It amazes me that some union members go on and on about the evil of "big business" and apparently fail to see that the union is the same thing
     
  8. silvertooth

    silvertooth Member

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    Is that what "your" said?

    I realize that the Teamsters are a business, you can go to The Center for Union Facts (a anti-union corporate-funded website) and look at our balance sheets and and the salaries of our officers (compare them to that of FedEx officers, for example) try Executive PayWatch Database
    to find the salaries and bonuses for CEO's. Our intention is to grow our organization and our membership. Like any organization we have bad apples, and internal problems we are far from perfect.

    The difference between major corporations and us is we have elections; the officers are accountable to every member. When our "big business" is successful so is the middle class.

    If you are on the fence about joining a union, don't take my word for it, google around, research it.
     
  9. freightpunk

    freightpunk Member

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    I'm curious to what spurred on this thread?
    Is there a terminal trying to organize or are you bitter about something? It takes 50+1
    to vote in a union,it's called democracy.If you live in Oregon,were a "closed shop" state meaning that if you work for a union carrier you have to join.Or if you are a "core" member,you've been black balled out of the union but still have to pay union dues without representation.Idaho is an "open" shop state,you can work there,but choose if you want union represenation.Me personally,
    I would'nt work in an "at-will employee" state like Oregon without a labor agreement.Gee.I do'nt like you hair style today,Your Fired!!!!
     
  10. Shifterknob

    Shifterknob The Last Wordslinger

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    Ummm... you entire logic is flawed. Unions are by nature, and under IRS regulation (at least in the U.S.), non-profit. Now, that is not to say that unions do not try and stay profitable in the sense of maintaining positive cash flow so they can perform their business, which is representing their membership. Because of course they have to stay solvent. And of course they want to grow, because more workers in a company or industry means more leverage, generally. If you look at the U.S. in historic terms, the unions who are declining serve sectors or industries which are also on the decline. Steel, coal, textiles, airlines, etc. However, in the burgeoning service sector, unions such as the SEIU and the Teamsters are making sizeable inroads.

    I'm not saying that there is not occasionally corruption or abuse of union funds, but if you were to compare the statistics of publicly-traded companies who have been investigated and convicted of fraud under the auspices of the SEC as well as the IRS to unions investigated and convicted by the U.S. Department of Labor... well, there is no contest. The DOL requires unions to file LM-2 financial reports which are public knowledge. Unions are under the microscope, which leaves very little room for fraud or misuse of funds.

    We also have the option of voting incompetant or corrupt union officers right out of office. When was the last time you had that option with your company's executives, hmmm?

    But getting back to the original point so brilliantly stated by Brother Silvertooth... what a union does is represent it's members before management. At the negotiating table, and during disciplinary matters, and at any time a worker needs a hand in dealing with management.

    You migh ask youself this: if unions are so horrible and corrupt and crappy... why do so many of us believe in them? Why do we argue so adamantly on their behalf? Many of us have had experience on both sides of the fence, and prefer the union shop over the non-union shop. It's not that unions are perfect. Far from it. They simply represent for the average worker a far better deal that they could get otherwise.

    By way of example and in the case of Oak Harbor, let's go back to the last contract negotiations to see what the union actually accomplished. The company decided that contract negotiations had drug on too long, and so gave the non-union side a $.50/hr. raise and a $500 "signing" bonus, and issued a memo from our esteemed VP of Operations stating that the company was going to award their non-union employees for their patience and furthermore stated that they would always "take better care of their non-union employees than those they actually had to bargain with".

    Ouch. The contempt in that memo was clearly felt by all who read it, which was many.

    But lo and behold, the union negotiators ended up getting $.60/hr. a year for a three-year contract, as well as full MOB on our H&W and we converted our "signing bonus/retro pay" into our pension, where it would pay far larger dividends over the long haul than a bonus check that the government taxed at an exorbitant rate and is then quickly spent.

    I also enjoy how senior management now likes to go around telling all of the non-union employees that the union "left money on the table" in the last negotiations. Might I add that the company ended up raising the non-union employees to match the union employees hourly wage rate?

    So, what can we learn from this little example?

    1.) The union was able to get a better deal than was initially offered to the non-union side. If this had been a completely non-union company, I doubt we would have even seen $.50/hr. As it was, everone got a good deal, which leads me to my second point.

    2.) A rising tide lifts all ships. The union got more than what was offered to the non-union side, and they were eventually brought up to our standard. The UNION STANDARD. And this applies to the industry as a whole. Do you think FedEx Freight drivers would have what they have if FedEx management wasn't living in constant fear of being organized?

    3.) Statistics don't lie. Unionized workers average 16% higher wages overall, and more union workers have affordable healthcare and a retirement plan than non-union workers do by a fair margin. Even in workplaces that have those fringe benefits, non-union employees pay a far larger share of their healthcare costs than union employees do, again by a large margin. And non-union companies are increasingly moving away from defined-benefit retirement plans to 401(K)-type defined-contribution plans where the burden of ensuring a decent retirement fund is totally on the employee.

    So, to wrap up this little story... your tired old rants about the union are just that: tired. They are just the same old lies and half-truths spread about by management types who resent having to deal with their employees on anything approaching a level playing field. In this day and age, when corporate profits are approaching historic numbers and when executive pay has climbed hundreds of times higher than what their average employee makes, and executive golden parachutes clauses eclipse anything approaching common sense, you really have the nerve to get on this soapbox and decry the only tool the average worker has left to try and maintain decent wages and benefits for himself and his family?

    Wow... I'm so sad for you.:duh:
     
  11. silvertooth

    silvertooth Member

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    Don't they have a managers board somewhere where you guys can brag about what a great job you have, and pat each other on the back for systematically destroying the working middle class?

    Oak Harbor will always "take better care of their non-union employees than those they actually had to bargain with"
    That sounds about right...
    Like those England guys, I bet they would like to take real good care of them to, all up and down the system. I wonder if they give their non-union P&D employees A/C?

    For those of you who have messaged me about heading for greener pastures, you might want to take into consideration that if you give them notice, they will in almost all cases just tell you not to come back. So I would just quit on the day you plan to, and not tell them anything. If you really want to do it right, you might call in sick for the week before you quit. That way you can get your check without them having anything to withhold from you, plus collect your sick pay (I am pretty sure they don't pay this out upon resignation, not positive though).
     
  12. okharbor

    okharbor New Member

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    No Sale

    Alot of personal responsibility has made me prepared for my future,when i am done with the truck i won't need the goverment or the union to take care of my needs...All that stuff that you listed in your master agreement does one thing in my opinion....and that is to weaken a company and hamstring them from staying competative with non union outfits...ask CF drivers if they would rather have 10 cents more an hour and a couple of days off....or there jobs back.
     
  13. silvertooth

    silvertooth Member

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    I know a lot of former CF employees, and they know that giving concessions cannot bring an inefficient company back to profitability. Since deregulation many companies have merged or folded. Such as Overnight, Motor Cargo, GI, American Freight and Watkins to name a few, these were non-union companies. If you look into the whole CF story, there is more to it.

    In some cases the difference in pay and benefits is simply absorbed in a higher CEO paycheck. Union companies enjoy a low turnaround and fewer instances of employee theft. You should know that whatever you make at a non-union carrier is directly linked to what we make. Many things can hamper a companies profitability. Look at Con-Way for example, all the advantages they've had in the ltl market yet their performance is lackluster at best.

    The most successful domestic transportation provider ever is UPS. They have almost 2X the market share of their largest competitor; they are Teamsters, which alone flaws you logic. Diversifying you investments and planning for retirement is nothing new it only makes sense.
     
  14. okharbor

    okharbor New Member

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    Heap of shipoopie

    My father worked for CF for 16 years that's not the story he tells...rising cost s due to employee demands equaled less profits per pallet of freight...union companys are ineffeciant in that guys will stand around doing nothing because what needs to be done is not in their job description,thus production is slowed if not stopped...as far as conway is concerned,i drove for conway for 9 years.."lackluster"?...that company has deep pockets and is EXTREMELY profitable...i would'nt classify them as "lackluster"
     
  15. serta

    serta Active Member

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    Didn't cf close because they wanted a non-union carrier,CCX, and gave all them the money and ran themselves into the ground. Sounds like typical corporate greed to me
     
  16. DMT

    DMT Well-Known Member

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    all companies can be gready and CEO paychecks are outrageous in just about every industry where the company is large.As i posted earlier in the thread,i am not against the union and i agree if not for the union the non-unions would not be making the money we are.I also agree that because of union rules the workers will stand around because it is not their job and i have witnessed this alot here too.It is in my opinion just in the things i read here on these boards that some union members just live for the next contract and what they can get instead of looking at the health of the comapny as a whole and bargaining fairly for the employee and the employer.each side has become so greedy that the workplace becomes to stressful just to go to work and bringing down moral and quality. The end result is everybody loses.
     
  17. silvertooth

    silvertooth Member

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    Your father would I think disagree :argue: with a majority of his former co-workers. Con-Way CNF shares trade in the mid to low 40's and have not had any real change in the last three years their Q$ 06' EPS was in the mid .70 cent range. I wouldn’t call that EXTREMLY profitable, pretty dismal actually.

    Lazy Teamsters :sleep: , now there is a legitimate concern. I believe in a fair days work, for fair days pay. But I have no control over my co-workers :Rulz: , (not in my job description) it really is the responsibility of management and the contract to come up with a plan, production bonuses seem to work well at UPS. I did work non-union for a few months, and I think that non-union employees tend to be more discrete about wasting company time.
     
  18. brutus

    brutus Active Member

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    when your wrong your wrong.
    and are price started going down at the same time everyone Else's did.

    52 weeks
    high............. ..........low
    61.87 .....................42.09
    02june2006 ............13dec2006
    NYSE Group, Inc. > About NYSE Group > Listed Companies > Listed Company Directory
     
  19. silvertooth

    silvertooth Member

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    If you are fortunate enough to work in a place where favoritism is not a problem... Oak Harbor has a history with the Union, and concessions had been giving by employees they agreed to leave the Master Agreement in the early 80's. Here is the problem we can't bargain fairly with OHFL because they refuse to show the union their balance sheet.

    I imagine a freshly organized workplace is probably a pretty stressful situation.
     
  20. silvertooth

    silvertooth Member

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    What is your point?
    CNW 1/21/2004 $46.42
    CNW 1/18/2007 $45.90
    So what if it spiked, that doesn’t indicate an actual increase in market share. Hovering around industry standards and riding market trends is not the mark of an "EXTREMLY profitable" company it is normal=lackluster: lacking brilliance or vitality.

    Q4 06' EPS 72-76 cents per share
     

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