silvertooth
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Keep Truckin' (YRC Worldwide) | SmartMoney.com
everyone stock and earings are down for the fourth quarter.
silvertooth
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Ok, where did I say that everyone was doing well?
What a typical union reply..."Pay me a bonus and i will do the job i was hired to do." and as far as that stock quoting guy is concerned..all trucking stocks are down right now...that is part of the market ups and downs...worry if you get around two dollars a share like Central Freight..
and no matter where you got into the discussion on this it still ends at if you are not happy where you work ,don't work there .It is not healthy for you to work where you are not happy.As far as union wages vs non-union wages i do not know anybody that would not like a raise but when you will call a strike on the company you work for knowing in some cases the company will go bankrupt or will be seriously damaged financially by doing so does not seem right.If the company is endangering the employee by practices or verbal and/or mental abuse i can see a reason for the union.If i have read my history right that was the reason the union was founded,to protect the employee not harrass the ownership into giving raises,pensions and other benefits to keep them productive.respond if i am wrong.
Shifterknob
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Wrong, wrong wrong, wrong. Man, are you wrong! Look, if everyone had the attitude "If you don't like it, leave!", do you have any idea where we would be?
It was those brave souls who stood up and risked all against often brutal employers to improve their lives and livelihoods. In turn, they have done much to improve your life and mine. Overtime provisions, worker protections, benefits... for all of these and more we owe a debt of gratitude to those who came before, and those who are still fighting to maintain a decent standard of living for the working class today!
Negotiating does not lead inevitably to a strike. In fact, strikes are very rare in this day and age. But that is the only real leverage an employee has to use: the withholding of one's labor.
Sure, a strike causes damage... for both sides. Rarely have I seen a strike where both sides didn't get hurt to some degree. But there is a time and a place where it is completely appropriate.
History proves this out.
Unions are there to represent their membership in all aspects of employment; from disciplinary actions to wages and benefits. Statistics prove that unionized workers make more in wages, and have better benefits than non-union employees. The reasons that union membership has declined so radically over the years is due to a combination of corporate clout in gaining ever more restrictive labor laws like Taft-Hartley and "Right to Work" that restrict the ability of workers to unionize and bargain collectively, while doing nothing to restrain corporate greed and malfeasance, and a lack of education on the part of workers as to their rights, and what I find even more troubling: a general sense of apathy and just not caring about standing up for oneself.
If you don't like it... leave?
Nope. Not going to do it. The unionized workers of this country have the better argument, and as they say, the proof is in the pudding. Without unions, this country would look much like China does now, with everyone (including children in sweatshops) working sixteen hours a day for cents, and no benefits. Hell, even in China unions are starting to have more and more presence in the workplace. Chinese workers are becoming more unionized (and are starting to enjoy a much better standard of living thanks to that union presence), and we are becoming less unionized by the decade.
Anyone else see the shame in that?
It was those brave souls who stood up and risked all against often brutal employers to improve their lives and livelihoods. In turn, they have done much to improve your life and mine. Overtime provisions, worker protections, benefits... for all of these and more we owe a debt of gratitude to those who came before, and those who are still fighting to maintain a decent standard of living for the working class today!
Negotiating does not lead inevitably to a strike. In fact, strikes are very rare in this day and age. But that is the only real leverage an employee has to use: the withholding of one's labor.
Sure, a strike causes damage... for both sides. Rarely have I seen a strike where both sides didn't get hurt to some degree. But there is a time and a place where it is completely appropriate.
History proves this out.
Unions are there to represent their membership in all aspects of employment; from disciplinary actions to wages and benefits. Statistics prove that unionized workers make more in wages, and have better benefits than non-union employees. The reasons that union membership has declined so radically over the years is due to a combination of corporate clout in gaining ever more restrictive labor laws like Taft-Hartley and "Right to Work" that restrict the ability of workers to unionize and bargain collectively, while doing nothing to restrain corporate greed and malfeasance, and a lack of education on the part of workers as to their rights, and what I find even more troubling: a general sense of apathy and just not caring about standing up for oneself.
If you don't like it... leave?
Nope. Not going to do it. The unionized workers of this country have the better argument, and as they say, the proof is in the pudding. Without unions, this country would look much like China does now, with everyone (including children in sweatshops) working sixteen hours a day for cents, and no benefits. Hell, even in China unions are starting to have more and more presence in the workplace. Chinese workers are becoming more unionized (and are starting to enjoy a much better standard of living thanks to that union presence), and we are becoming less unionized by the decade.
Anyone else see the shame in that?
Shifterknob
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Well, you father is mis-informed as to the reason for CF's demise. I don't know what function he held there, but I know many people who were not only drivers and dockworkers there, but were management as well.
It was, simply put, poor management that ran CF into the ground.
And what do I have to prove that? Very simple: the National Master Freight Agreement you were crapping all over in another post. Under this contract, not only CF, but Roadway Express, Yellow Freight, ABF and a nyumber of regionals all had the same pay structure and benefits, which means their labor costs were all roughly the same.
So tell me... if these costs were so excessive under the NMFA, how is it that ABF and YRC managed to stay in business and even be quite profitable, and CF didn't? What is the difference, if the labor costs and "restrictive" work rules are all the same between all of these companies?
I maintain it was poor management at best, and at worst, a conspiracy to build a huge super-regional non-union LTL from the ashes of CF without having to deal with certain legal niceties.
I highly suggest you look back into the past of Oak Harbor and see that the unionized employees have been more than resonable in dealing with management here. When Henry came to us in '84 asking us to gve concessions in the form of leaving the NMFA so his company could survive, we did it. Our wages and benefits stagnated while the company grew and prospered. But we did survived the tumultous post-deregulation era intact. And in our last contract, we took a little of that back, and negotiated the best contract we have had since departing Master Freight.
So we all have much to thank the union for here at Oak Harbor, and I look forward to seeing us negotiate another fair and substantive labor contract this year...
silvertooth
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Sometimes staying and fighting has a far better end result than leaving. Think of Rosa Parks, maybe she could have just not rode the bus? I understand the situation is not the same, but the principle is. You all have an opportunity through the Teamsters to make a difference, to be a part of something bigger than yourself. To make your job more than just a job, through collective bargaining you stand face to face with management. All of us at the other companies we stand with you, we truly are a family.
I am tired of seeing England Trucks Pulling Oak Harbor pups full of freight that was collected and sorted by hard working Teamsters, only to be passed on to some double book running, drug using, sleeper team so the company can save a few dollars.
These guys come on here and try to discredit us by saying we are corrupt, greedy, leach's trying to suck the dues money out of you so somebody can get rich. I am just a truck driver; if you join the union I don't get anything monetary out of it. The reason I come here and spill my hopes and dreams on to these pages is because I have seen it work. The more powerful we become the better it works our power is the membership.
I realize I didn’t really address your statements yes, you are wrong. We are reasonable people we do not expect the company to hand us the world. Remember that we are working people; sometimes it is easy to forget the sacrifices we make everyday. Traveling down the road at 62mph with 80,000 lbs behind you, heavy lifting, bouncing around in trucks, loud noises, exhaust fumes, forklifts, dust, jumping in and out of trailers, handling hazardous materials, remember you are trading your life for your pay. David Vanderpol doesn’t know that feeling you get in your elbow after tugging a fifth wheel that just wont give. That’s why we fight for our fair share, honest days work for an honest days pay. We don’t expect to drive Ferrari’s and live in Mansions, but we can live comfortably and feel good about our jobs.
so what you are saying is that when one union company goes on strike all of them should just because your a family.i have never witnessed this.i have heard of other union members not crossing the lines but not striking just because you are.Something bigger than myself,i will do my job to the best of my ability and get a paycheck union or not.
CF :poor management: how could so may people in their management be that blind for that long.I am not an accountant but i would think CF had a few of them and would have spoke up.
answer a few questions and lets see what we can learn together.
1 who determines when to call a strike
2 who determines the provisions to incorporate in a new work contract
3 who calls for a vote on new rules.
4 what percentage of votes are required to pass a change/addition etc
keep the conversation going,i apparently need to learn more about the union than i know now.
CF :poor management: how could so may people in their management be that blind for that long.I am not an accountant but i would think CF had a few of them and would have spoke up.
answer a few questions and lets see what we can learn together.
1 who determines when to call a strike
2 who determines the provisions to incorporate in a new work contract
3 who calls for a vote on new rules.
4 what percentage of votes are required to pass a change/addition etc
keep the conversation going,i apparently need to learn more about the union than i know now.
silvertooth
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About CF, they really did not want a union and they went to great measures to eliminate CF, the company CNF former parent to both CF and Con-Way initially was just CF. They sold Freightliner Truck from those proceeds Con-Way, CWX whatever was born the "non-union CF", after several years of operating both companies side by side they spun CF out of their umbrella, gutted it of assets and funds leaving it with no real chance of survival. After CF went under their customer accounts were handed over to Con-Way. It was done legally but that doesn’t make it right. There are others here who know allot more about this, but that is the jest from what I know.
That’s just it, anyone can go to work and get a paycheck, when you work for a great company, and you know that you have a hand in making it what it is. That makes it more than just a job I am very fortunate to work where I work, we are treated very well.
Fortune: Most Admired Companies: Snapshot
When one company goes on strike we don't cross lines, and we help out with the pickets, we are there to support them morally and financially (from the international, local and member to member). In the case of a master freight contract strike all the companies covered under it would strike at the same time. A strike is a last resort and only occurs in something like 2% of negotiations.
I am glad you ask! Thank you, I appreciate you open mind.
1. The members vote on a strike.
2. Usually a survey is passed out to employees before negotiations even start, asking what things are most important to us. Members can submit ideas, the local union reps come around and try to get a real idea of what we feel is important. The contract truly is an expression of the will of the members.
3. After gathering a good idea of what the employees want the negations begin, and then a proposal is put before the membership to vote upon. At any time during this process the members can look over the contract and tell their reps if something needs to be changed.
4.Once a contract is ratified it cannot be changed, amendments may be added so long as both parties agree but a contract is good for its designated life. As far as the percentage votes on a contract I believe it to be 51% but let me find out for sure.
dmtorl, middle management and lower management are not the ones that create policies and make executive decisions that affect the future of the company. Upper management does that and thats where CF had problems.
The BOD and CEO of CF are the ones I blame for the demise of CF. Under the leadership of Roger C**** CF went from making money to losing millions quarter after quarter. Not until it was too late did the BOD get his resignation.
I'm sure there were plenty of front line managers that realized the company was in trouble but had no way of making any changes that would have actually made a difference.
usfsactown
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keep up the good work
whats with union haters? dont they know that the only reason they all dont make 10-bucks an hour is because of the union! I make 22.13hr thats because 60% of our barns are under union contract.NOT because reddaway is so generous......................
whats with union haters? dont they know that the only reason they all dont make 10-bucks an hour is because of the union! I make 22.13hr thats because 60% of our barns are under union contract.NOT because reddaway is so generous......................
silvertooth
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No, that is standard OTR pay. The major companies covered under the agreement are Roadway, Yellow, ABF and there are other smaller companies.
silvertooth
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Yeah I totally screwed this up I just realized it sorry.
4/1/07 standard line haul pay is 54.975
4/1/07 Sleeper pay 58.975
Current standard line haul pay 53.725
Current sleeper pay 57.725
Also, I should mention these rates are not exact because their was a cost of living wage increase that deviates us from the original scale, something like 10 cents hourly and .25cpm in line.
4/1/07 standard line haul pay is 54.975
4/1/07 Sleeper pay 58.975
Current standard line haul pay 53.725
Current sleeper pay 57.725
Also, I should mention these rates are not exact because their was a cost of living wage increase that deviates us from the original scale, something like 10 cents hourly and .25cpm in line.
Ummm... you entire logic is flawed. Unions are by nature, and under IRS regulation (at least in the U.S.), non-profit. Now, that is not to say that unions do not try and stay profitable in the sense of maintaining positive cash flow so they can perform their business, which is representing their membership. Because of course they have to stay solvent. And of course they want to grow, because more workers in a company or industry means more leverage, generally. If you look at the U.S. in historic terms, the unions who are declining serve sectors or industries which are also on the decline. Steel, coal, textiles, airlines, etc. However, in the burgeoning service sector, unions such as the SEIU and the Teamsters are making sizeable inroads.
I'm not saying that there is not occasionally corruption or abuse of union funds, but if you were to compare the statistics of publicly-traded companies who have been investigated and convicted of fraud under the auspices of the SEC as well as the IRS to unions investigated and convicted by the U.S. Department of Labor... well, there is no contest. The DOL requires unions to file LM-2 financial reports which are public knowledge. Unions are under the microscope, which leaves very little room for fraud or misuse of funds.
We also have the option of voting incompetant or corrupt union officers right out of office. When was the last time you had that option with your company's executives, hmmm?
But getting back to the original point so brilliantly stated by Brother Silvertooth... what a union does is represent it's members before management. At the negotiating table, and during disciplinary matters, and at any time a worker needs a hand in dealing with management.
You migh ask youself this: if unions are so horrible and corrupt and crappy... why do so many of us believe in them? Why do we argue so adamantly on their behalf? Many of us have had experience on both sides of the fence, and prefer the union shop over the non-union shop. It's not that unions are perfect. Far from it. They simply represent for the average worker a far better deal that they could get otherwise.
By way of example and in the case of Oak Harbor, let's go back to the last contract negotiations to see what the union actually accomplished. The company decided that contract negotiations had drug on too long, and so gave the non-union side a $.50/hr. raise and a $500 "signing" bonus, and issued a memo from our esteemed VP of Operations stating that the company was going to award their non-union employees for their patience and furthermore stated that they would always "take better care of their non-union employees than those they actually had to bargain with".
Ouch. The contempt in that memo was clearly felt by all who read it, which was many.
But lo and behold, the union negotiators ended up getting $.60/hr. a year for a three-year contract, as well as full MOB on our H&W and we converted our "signing bonus/retro pay" into our pension, where it would pay far larger dividends over the long haul than a bonus check that the government taxed at an exorbitant rate and is then quickly spent.
I also enjoy how senior management now likes to go around telling all of the non-union employees that the union "left money on the table" in the last negotiations. Might I add that the company ended up raising the non-union employees to match the union employees hourly wage rate?
So, what can we learn from this little example?
1.) The union was able to get a better deal than was initially offered to the non-union side. If this had been a completely non-union company, I doubt we would have even seen $.50/hr. As it was, everone got a good deal, which leads me to my second point.
2.) A rising tide lifts all ships. The union got more than what was offered to the non-union side, and they were eventually brought up to our standard. The UNION STANDARD. And this applies to the industry as a whole. Do you think FedEx Freight drivers would have what they have if FedEx management wasn't living in constant fear of being organized?
3.) Statistics don't lie. Unionized workers average 16% higher wages overall, and more union workers have affordable healthcare and a retirement plan than non-union workers do by a fair margin. Even in workplaces that have those fringe benefits, non-union employees pay a far larger share of their healthcare costs than union employees do, again by a large margin. And non-union companies are increasingly moving away from defined-benefit retirement plans to 401(K)-type defined-contribution plans where the burden of ensuring a decent retirement fund is totally on the employee.
So, to wrap up this little story... your tired old rants about the union are just that: tired. They are just the same old lies and half-truths spread about by management types who resent having to deal with their employees on anything approaching a level playing field. In this day and age, when corporate profits are approaching historic numbers and when executive pay has climbed hundreds of times higher than what their average employee makes, and executive golden parachutes clauses eclipse anything approaching common sense, you really have the nerve to get on this soapbox and decry the only tool the average worker has left to try and maintain decent wages and benefits for himself and his family?
Wow... I'm so sad for you.
Well Said. You should print that out and post it on the breakroom wall's.
Thanks,
I was just curious to see what FXF will give us this year, looks like another penny, lol.
We are at .5313 so I'm willing to bet we'll be .5425 or real close to that. can't wait to see if I'm right...
FM
Thanks for the clarification. Are you Line/or P&D/ or Sleeper? (Just asking)