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Oak Harbor Threatens To Terminate Volunteer Firefighter

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THEWRENCH

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Oak Harbor Freight Lines is probably one of the most selfish companies that I have ever been employed for. Just in case my emails to the company ask the boss don't get read by the appropriate management I hope that this will reach the many managers that pose as truck drivers, as well as the union and non-union represented employees that do not understand to what extent this company does not actually care about you and I. Oak harbor’s management team seems to dislike me because of my union support and ability to read and understand their bogus offer and my very vocal stance on what they are trying to do to us. With that, they have made numerous attempts to discipline me or attempt to figure out a way to terminate me without cause. I believe that they have decided to focus their efforts on removing people who do the quality of work needed to make their selfish dream a reality. Without these key people, and you all know who you are, this company would have failed years ago. People who have a sense of pride and perfection, values that the VanderPols have removed from many people over greed in the last 10 months. I believe this is an issue that must be brought to the attention of all who read the trucking boards page. I am a volunteer firefighter and am employed at Oak Harbor. I was notified that I was put on a list to respond to Spokane, FOR A STATE EMERGENCY, to protect structures from fire. I notified Oak Harbor and was told that I would be disciplined for doing such a thing. I then told them that I was protected by law. I provided them with a copy of a bill that was being passed federally as I did not have time to read all the laws in Washington to protect my job which should MORALLY be protected by Oak Harbor. They then came back the following week and told me again that I would be held to the attendance policy and I was verbally warned again of being terminated...Wouldn’t you think they would refer this issue to their wonderful law team? No not Oak Harbor, they make their own rules, contracts, policies, procedures, and now apparently they are also writing state law. Why should a volunteer that serves to protect their community, state, and country be subjected to such treatment and the fear of losing their job when asked to help a big freaking problem? I believe that this company has no values, morals, and the only thing that matters is the bottom line. I sent them an email earlier this week and now 5 days later I have not received an apology which I think is absolutely inexcusable. 73% of all fire departments in the country are volunteer and rely on people like us to respond when someone calls 911 or lets their campfire get out of control. I am a state and nationally certified firefighter, wildland firefighter, and EMT, we aren’t the group of good old boys that show up anymore...we are PROFESSIONALS. What next? Military reservists losing their jobs?? I just still cant believe the law needs to tell these guys how to act and how to think, have they lost touch with reality over this whole contract issue? What would Hank think about this? Anyway I have included a poll, please vote to let me know who is out of line. Should I be disciplined for being late or missing work to volunteer to help people? I have included the state law below for all of you to read. Maybe there are some more firefighters out there that will need to know this!

RCW 49.12.460
Volunteer firefighters, reserve officers — Employer duties — Violations.

(1) An employer may not discharge from employment or discipline a volunteer firefighter or reserve officer because of leave taken related to an alarm of fire or an emergency call.

(2)(a) A volunteer firefighter or reserve officer who believes he or she was discharged or disciplined in violation of this section may file a complaint alleging the violation with the director. The volunteer firefighter or reserve officer may allege a violation only by filing such a complaint within ninety days of the alleged violation.

(b) Upon receipt of the complaint, the director must cause an investigation to be made as the director deems appropriate and must determine whether this section has been violated. Notice of the director's determination must be sent to the complainant and the employer within ninety days of receipt of the complaint.

(c) If the director determines that this section was violated and the employer fails to reinstate the employee or withdraw the disciplinary action taken against the employee, whichever is applicable, within thirty days of receipt of notice of the director's determination, the volunteer firefighter or reserve officer may bring an action against the employer alleging a violation of this section and seeking reinstatement or withdrawal of the disciplinary action.

(d) In any action brought under this section, the superior court shall have jurisdiction, for cause shown, to restrain violations under this section and to order reinstatement of the employee or withdrawal of the disciplinary action.

(3) For the purposes of this section:

(a) "Alarm of fire or emergency call" means responding to, working at, or returning from a fire alarm or an emergency call, but not participating in training or other nonemergency activities.

(b) "Employer" means an employer who had twenty or more full-time equivalent employees in the previous year.

(c) "Reinstatement" means reinstatement with back pay, without loss of seniority or benefits, and with removal of any related adverse material from the employee's personnel file, if a file is maintained by the employer.

(d) "Withdrawal of disciplinary action" means withdrawal of disciplinary action with back pay, without loss of seniority or benefits, and with removal of any related adverse material from the employee's personnel file, if a file is maintained by the employer.

(e) "Volunteer firefighter" means a firefighter who:

(i) Is not paid;

(ii) Is not already at his or her place of employment when called to serve as a volunteer, unless the employer agrees to provide such an accommodation; and

(iii) Has been ordered to remain at his or her position by the commanding authority at the scene of the fire.

(f) "Reserve officer" has the meaning provided in RCW 41.24.010.

(4) The legislature declares that the public policies articulated in this section depend on the procedures established in this section and no civil or criminal action may be maintained relying on the public policies articulated in this section without complying with the procedures set forth in this section, and to that end all civil actions and civil causes of action for such injuries and all jurisdiction of the courts of this state over such causes are hereby abolished, except as provided in this section.


[2004 c 44 § 1; 2003 c 401 § 5; 2001 c 173 § 1.]

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and thanks for your support. May we all hope for a fair contract someday and the respect from our employer we once had.

THEWRECH
 
And a big Thank You Wrench for helping with the fires over here. As you could probably tell it is drier than a popcorn fart here and it takes nothing to get a large fire going!

I have a fellow driver who spent 4 days on the Dishman Hills fire complex and UPS was right up front on granting him the time needed to be on the firelines.:1036316054:
 
While I am not surprised by what Oak Harbor is doing to you, it is alarming. They preach all of the typical B.S. but when it comes down to living it, they don't follow through. I have seen them called greedy and egotistical and now I guess you can add two faced as well.

Sounds to me that if they terminate you, you will have some back pay coming your way. I hope it doesn't come to that but with these people anything is possible.
 
Leave of absence?

Did you request a leave of absence? Are you expecting to
get paid for the time? If you want to be paid, then the
vacation policy should come into effect, yes? And, if that
is the case, and the company has set a max number of
people that can be off on vacation time at one time, they
should be within their rights to deny the vacation pay.

However, if you request a leave of absence, and it is
denied, which can happen, but the company has allowed
others to have leaves, then the company could be in
the wrong.
 
We need those people in this country and I think it should be excused.
911.gif
 
And also

If this were my company to run, I would let the person
have as much time as they needed to do the job, and
thank the person for their service. But that is just me.
 
hmmmm

Maybe you need to get your post polished up that you can and send it to KING 5 News. It would complement the video about the pickets.

Good Luck and thanks for your volunteer work.
 
chuckandbob said:
Did you request a leave of absence? Are you expecting to
get paid for the time? If you want to be paid, then the
vacation policy should come into effect, yes? And, if that
is the case, and the company has set a max number of
people that can be off on vacation time at one time, they
should be within their rights to deny the vacation pay.

However, if you request a leave of absence, and it is
denied, which can happen, but the company has allowed
others to have leaves, then the company could be in
the wrong.
Click to expand...

I do not wish to be paid for the time off, just to have support and someone not telling me I will be counted tardy resulting in progressive discipline. YES in fact may be able to deny "vacation pay" but i dont care because it is not a vacation. Just want to do what I have to do and be covered...think you may have missed a little in the thread...and the company would really be in the wrong and legally cannot deny me leave so no argument there.
 
RedRollingRoadblock said:
Maybe you need to get your post polished up that you can and send it to KING 5 News. It would complement the video about the pickets.

Good Luck and thanks for your volunteer work.
Click to expand...

Better believe that will happen if they violate the law on the next call out, as of now, was just empty threats by people who had little knowledge of the law. I have a feeling they have been properly schooled by braun consulting... :chairshot: thanks for the support!
 
happyltlguy said:
The law stated you must be unpaid, you were going to go fight fires in spokane unpaid?
Click to expand...

You are correct, the law states that I cannot not be a paid firefighter to be a volunteer firefighter. Good job. I believe this thread used the term "volunteer" Reimbursements that all volunteer departments provide do not make one "paid." Just because a person is out doing good doesn't mean they don’t have bills that need paid. "Paid" is meaning I am not a Salaried employee of a fire department, a career firefighter if you will. Our fire department is an ALL VOLUNTEER department. You obviously are a lawyer for the company, or a manager who just doesn't give a crap about anyone besides yourself. I saw you voted that you believe I should be terminated. I wish nothing less than you taking a scenic drive to an area covered by volunteer protection (which you don’t have to go far to find one, I remind you...73%) and crashing into a tree at 60 miles an hour and waiting for a "paid" person to come to your aid. In my area, if you don’t get a volunteer response, because we fear losing our jobs because of people like you...., you are looking at a minimum of a 30 minute response time to your bleeding corpse from a paid department plus an hour transport time or another 30 for life flight, yeah...your dead. Thanks for your support you ***. You want me to be nicer then vote yes on all fire levees and pay for services that cities cant find the money for, then all us butt hole volunteers will get hired and you wont have to worry about trying to fire us for leaving to help. You make me sick. :annoyed:
 
Your quick with the false assumptions. I have some knowledge of this situation. My father was a certified wildfire firefighter and I know that when he fought wildfires 12 years ago, they would send out calls to volunteer districts to recuit people ususally when the pro fighters were thin because of a lot of fires at once. That is simply because they want certified firefighters and the volunteers are a good source for those. I have many friends that are both paid and volunteer firemen and respect them for what they do.

What I also know is that the pay you will receive is no different than the pay you would receive if you were on a pro crew such as my fathers. I know this because he often got assigned some of the volunteer firemen and they received the same pay, as they should. My beef here is that your indignant about the company and their view of "the bottom line" and you paint yourself as this saint who is only asking to go help out the community. The reality is that your only concerned about your bottom line and your trying to apply this law to a situation where it doesn't apply. The code says "must be unpaid"

I applaud you for your service as a voluteer firefighter. I believe if you had a fire locally that you needed to go to the law would apply. I also think you true motivation for being a firefighter is not to benefit the community you have an ego that needs the help.
 
Oh you caught me greed and ego. I am not a paid firefighter. If I was I would not be here typing this today, I would be fishing. Do you think I should just not have any income for two weeks? That would be so nice to come home to a stack of bills. Whatever man, everybody has their opinion but im just sayin, Office Depot's lawyers and JB Hunt's owner doesn't have a problem with it...they have had no problem with two of their guys 10 seasons in a row. Definition of paid firefighter says this from answers.com "Not all firefighters are paid for their services. In some countries, including the United States, Canada, Finland, Australia, and New Zealand, there are often paid, or "career" firefighters working. Additionally, there are volunteer and "call" or "retained" (firefighters who are paid for the specific time they are responding to emergencies) firefighters who are not employed full time as firefighters." I just dont see how someone cannot support me on this, pretty sure that any judge would say I am right and they are wrong. Why would the dept of the intererior provide a check to a volunteer if it was against the very RCW that protects us...just doesn't seem like it makes sense to me. Lastely, the ego statement is very untrue, I do this because I enjoy it and its family tradition that goes back 3 generations. Its just what you do, you live in a small town, you join the fire department. Trust me, the first time they do testing is the day I will drop my crap at oak harbor and never come back.
 
I believe that you should be paid for working for two weeks in a wildfire. I just don't think the RCW covers you unless it is a truely voluteer situation, just as the RCW states.
 
You know how I know Happyltlguy is a manager? Because there is no such thing as a happy ltl guy. Corny joke I know....

Now to the discussion at hand, unfortunately I am going to have to agree with him on this one, I was unaware volunteer firefighters were paid for their time, I hate to say it, but as I read it, I really don't think that law protects you in this case, you were hired at will, not called upon to volunteer if you are getting paid you are not a volunteer. While I realize it is a noble cause, and any decent employer would be more than willing to work with you, and morally they should, this is not a decent employer. Know the rules, and stick it to them legally, don't expect them to give you an inch.
 
well people in the reserves for the armed forces get paid if they are called up for duty and their jobs are protected so what is the difference? I am sure if one of the VP houses were threatened in the 13+ houses that burnt to the ground they would be really happy to see your sorry a$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Why is this company using any means to keep their employees on the edge. I asked my boss if the same situation arose and he said the company would back the employee 100% aslong as there is proof that you were really pulling hoses and digging fire lines. I guess some companies respect what their employees do in their communities.
 
silvertooth said:
You know how I know Happyltlguy is a manager? Because there is no such thing as a happy ltl guy. Corny joke I know....

Now to the discussion at hand, unfortunately I am going to have to agree with him on this one, I was unaware volunteer firefighters were paid for their time, I hate to say it, but as I read it, I really don't think that law protects you in this case, you were hired at will, not called upon to volunteer if you are getting paid you are not a volunteer. While I realize it is a noble cause, and any decent employer would be more than willing to work with you, and morally they should, this is not a decent employer. Know the rules, and stick it to them legally, don't expect them to give you an inch.
Click to expand...

Well I guess we will have to see what happens in court if they decide to fire me one day for going to one of these...haven't heard of it ever happening before with any other employer in the state of washington. I know alot of volunteers show up and nothing ever happens to them. When in comes down to it, my job title is volunteer firefighter/EMT, for an all volunteer house. Everything that is "made" which is referred to as reimbursements are protected and non taxable so....i donno. Maybe Oak Harbor wants to be the first company in state history to disgust a judge in washington? again, donno. Couldn't find any records of company's trying to push the issue in the past. I will be contacting the dept. you file violations of the law to and will let everyone know what their response is, as well as the union lawyer to get his take on the situation, just dont know how timely it will be. On a happier note......lets all hope for a resolved contract in our favor so that our employer may stop looking at us as the enemy and be a little bit more down to earth and realistic...hopefully...but I guess every teamster you fire is one more guy hired that will most likely cross a line, gotta prepare for the worst as they say.
 
happyltlguy said:
I believe that you should be paid for working for two weeks in a wildfire. I just don't think the RCW covers you unless it is a truely voluteer situation, just as the RCW states.
Click to expand...

I believe it is truely a volunteer situation. The way it works is when they need additional resources above and beyond what is available...which in this one, for structural protection, they call out all in their county...once those are gone they are gone. Next are surrounding areas and counties like pierce which has a high number of "wildland interface" firefighters, they call the fire station and ask the chief for a list of all their "red carded" personell, 5 at our station, they then put you on a list if the chief agrees to being able to spare his resources. You are then notified of the call, and upon the final request of the resources..officially toned out "officially and specifically requested and called to the emergency" and have 3 hours to assemble and meet for deployment. Your return is dependant on when you are released from the scene. The fire engine is also paid by the state when it is used in a state mobilization which is then paid to the city or town from which it came from at the rate of around 1k a day...nothing is free i guess...even free stuff. I am truely a volunteer, I work every saturday for free, pull a full shift, buy my own wildland protective gear (less the fire shelter and pack) and train to keep current with WAC 396.205 and NFPA 1001 standard for firefighter professional qualifications, everything that a paid person does, except for free, in my off work time. I also have to keep current on live fire training exercises which mean taking my vacation time to go to north bend fire academy if I have not seen fire for 1 yr. I usually dedicate 16 free hours a week to being at the station and all other time off of work (oak harbor) to being on call, tones go out in the middle of the night, I drive down to our unmanned volunteer station and a lot of time respond with one other or by myself. I dont know if this helps at all, but this is the reason I believe that I would have support in court as I dont see how I fall under the paid firefighter category...
 
This is so sad!!!!!!!!!! Why do we have to feel like the employer is trying to get us? Like I have heard some of the drivers are hitting 60+ years and things break down (knees, elbows, back) and Oak Hrbor will not let you use your sick days if you have called in more than the 3.5 days that are allowed without a warning letter. Why do they give you 6 days a year if you can not use them? I think they want to keep the fear in everyone, afraid you will not be able to provide for your family, so you just keep conceding to their unrealistic demands.
 
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