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ABF | One irrefutable fact

nothumbleenough said:
Skilling, Lay and Ebbers all went to prison for investment fraud, i.e. lying about profit when there was none to drive up their stock price which provided mucho access to cash in the capital markets.
The exact opposite is happening with ABF by continuing to show losses the capital markets are not providing access to cash. This is the madness to the line "they've been losing money on purpose for five years." The main reason the stock recovered half of its price of five years ago was the T/A.
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I don’t believe management has been purposely loosing money but I also don’t believe this contract is going to do anything but postpone ABF’s financial problems ie “kick the can down the road.” But maybe you can help me understand. In 2011 revenue was $1.9 billion with profitable net income of $6.1 million. The next year, 2012, revenue rose 8.3% to $2.2billion but net income declined by 25% to -$7.7million. What increased so much that ABFS lost money? Was it employee compensation? Because that is what this contract is cutting. What caused ABFS’s net income to decline so much when revenue increased so much? How did they go from profitable to unprofitable? Please help me to understand this!!!
 
Homesick said:
Enron and WorldCom were not that long ago. When you get a little more experience and you have lived through a few mistakes maybe you will understand. Until then, enjoy your innocence.
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Oh give me a break. That was in 2001. I was only 23 at the time. I heard about it, but it certainly wasn't my top concern in life then.

Your question was stupid. How can I believe them when its a proven fact they lied?

And I'm not about to put ABF in that group. I'll need a lot more evidence.
 
nothumbleenough said:
Yes, life will go on no matter whether the contract is approved or voted down. This doesn't mean the union carrier known as ABF will have life post a voted down contract. Life will still go on even if the currently under funded Central Stats Pension Fund is deemed insolvent by the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation and the retirement you thought and planned on receiving is slashed by almost 75%. Life will go on even if we are paying hundreds a month in insurance premiums at our new jobs where we also make less money. Life will go on even if YRC buys us and paints our green tractors orange and blue.

I don't read company propaganda to reach conclusions and you shouldn't either because there are more reliable places to verify such things like; S.E.C. filings and P& L reports, public comments by the Central States Pension Trustee and lastly a very basic understanding of the capitalistic society that mandates a profit for a company to exist long term.
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This proposal is being sold by both sides, I know the companies side (even though I am not convinced of the amount of loss's). I have read the S.E.C. filings, and it just don't add up (YOU EVEN ADMITTED YOUR FIGURES DON'T MATCH THE COMPANIES DOCUMENTS). The Teamsters (IBT) also have a motive to make sure this gets passed at any cost (YRC AND THE LAWSUIT), So in my perception they have not bargained without conflict of interest.

The CSPF would not be underfunded if the Executives would have done their job and protected our future (money). If the IBT had not let UPS withdraw out of the CSPF, The fund will still be solvent.CSPF somehow lost 6 BILLION DOLLARS that was paid in by UPS for withdrawing from the fund. I know they lost it in the bad investments, but they should be held accountable, and make retribution to the funds loss's. In my opinion before anything happens to the pensions, the government should do a full investigation, and hold the executives in charge accountable.

Well I see you are still trying to influence with Threats of YRC buying ABF. TELL ME AGAIN HOW THIS IS NOT TRYING TO PUT FEAR INTO THE TEAMSTERS RIGHT BEFORE THE VOTE.. CLASSY....

In my opinion this contract probably would have passed, except the company and IBT, went overboard (concessions). We can talk about this every time, but this contract is not just about money and you know it. It is about gutting it. Tell me again how greed is not a part of it

IF THE COMPANY WAS WORRIED ABOUT IT NOT PASSING OR A POSSIBILITY OF LOSS OF BUSINESS, THEN MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE PUT MORE THOUGHT INTO THE TA AND WHATS THE BEST INTEREST OF ALL INVOLVED TO GUARANTEE THAT IT WOULD PASS THE FIRST TIME.
 
Stoney I just want to let you know, Even thought nothumbleenough and I will not agree on this and yes I know he is a yes voter, that we can still talk without insults and calling each other names. As I may not agree with him I do respect him and his right to vote anyway he likes.
 
papajohn said:
Stoney I just want to let you know, Even thought nothumbleenough and I will not agree on this and yes I know he is a yes voter, that we can still talk without insults and calling each other names. As I may not agree with him I do respect him and his right to vote anyway he likes.
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Funny how you felt the need to say that. Guilt setting in?
 
Stoney said:
Funny how you felt the need to say that. Guilt setting in?
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Not at all. You keep making your snide comments, so I saved you time, IT IS NOT ABOUT THE YES VOTERS OR HOW THEY VOTE, AS YOU SAY, SO THAT MEANS IT MUST BE YOUR YOUR OWN CONCLUSION ON ONLY WHAT YOU WANTED TO SEE AND NOT THE ACTUAL INTENT
 
Stoney said:
Oh give me a break. That was in 2001. I was only 23 at the time. I heard about it, but it certainly wasn't my top concern in life then.

Your question was stupid. How can I believe them when its a proven fact they lied?

And I'm not about to put ABF in that group. I'll need a lot more evidence.
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There you go again bashing another poster....
 
papajohn said:
Not at all. You keep making your snide comments, so I saved you time, IT IS NOT ABOUT THE YES VOTERS OR HOW THEY VOTE, AS YOU SAY, SO THAT MEANS IT MUST BE YOUR YOUR OWN CONCLUSION ON ONLY WHAT YOU WANTED TO SEE AND NOT THE ACTUAL INTENT
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Ya, guilt. My rant must have got to you.
 
Stoney said:
Because it was a stupid question. And I didn't call him stupid. Hello!
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It was stupid in your eyes, when someone doesn't have the same though process as you yo belittle & degrade them .... Remember what I said about being classy you proved my point once again....
 
GO40 said:
It was stupid in your eyes, when someone doesn't have the same though process as you yo belittle & degrade them .... Remember what I said about being classy you proved my point once again....
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You said I bashed him. How? I didn't call him stupid. I didn't accuse him of being on his knees for management( your definition of classy ).

I simply called his question stupid, not him.
 
Stoney said:
You said I bashed him. How? I didn't call him stupid. I didn't accuse him of being on his knees for management( your definition of classy ).

I simply called his question stupid, not him.
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Have a good nite ... You just don't get it....
 
nothumbleenough said:
Skilling, Lay and Ebbers all went to prison for investment fraud, i.e. lying about profit when there was none to drive up their stock price which provided mucho access to cash in the capital markets.
The exact opposite is happening with ABF by continuing to show losses the capital markets are not providing access to cash. This is the madness to the line "they've been losing money on purpose for five years." The main reason the stock recovered half of its price of five years ago was the T/A.
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It looks to me like you're saying that ABF is committing fraud to drive stock price down, am I seeing this wrong?
 
GO40 said:
It was stupid in your eyes, when someone doesn't have the same though process as you yo belittle & degrade them .... Remember what I said about being classy you proved my point once again....
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You have to remember he is young. He has not had enough life experiences to know anything. I can’t fault him because when I was young and innocent I thought I knew it all. I remember my dad telling me to write everything down because one day I would find out I did not know it all. And he was right life has turned and bitten me several times. That is why I am skeptical of most things. And why I require proof or at least evidence before I accept any claims.
 
ABFer said:
It looks to me like you're saying that ABF is committing fraud to drive stock price down, am I seeing this wrong?
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The general theme when discussing certain facts such as the losses ABF has had over the last five years, i.e. since the last contract, "No Voters" will inevitably say the company is purposely losing money. ABFer I don't know what you do at ABF (road or city) but in general most road drivers I speak with will openly tell you the company demands more today then they did 5 years ago. Our road board at 004 has gone from 275 to 160 in five years. So the company is making clear attempts to be more efficient at 004, surely you would agree the same holds true at your terminal? If they wanted to lose money on purpose as many "no voters" contend, why is the job harder today then five years ago? So no, by honoring a contract they signed five years ago, they have lost hundreds of millions of dollars and are not committing any kind of fraud.
 
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