Discussion in 'ABF Freight System' started by Muler, Aug 21, 2012.
Now you agree that multi employer pension plans are an asset to the company. Which is it?
The only problem I see with your logic is that the Nons, in many cases, aren't giving any retirement to their employees and they will never agree to start unless they are forced to. That is very hard with more and more states becoming "right to work", meaning "right to fire at will"... Workers are often between a rock and a hard place and when they look at what has happened at YRCW and with the unions attempt to pass card check, it is very hard for us to sell them on the idea of a trying to bring in the union... The only way to get more participants into the multi-employer plans is through greater union participation, and the trend is very much in the opposite direction from that... I wish it were possible, but sadly, I just don't see it happening...
I don't disagree with your points...The key to long term viability for the pension fund is getting more employers to join...I agree that the likelyhood of that seems to be improbable in the current political and economic environment were experiencing.... One thing to think about is that the same economics that cause Companies not to offer any retirement or just a 401 K, is the same that compels them to squeeze out ever increasing productivity out of the employees that they have and often for less wages... resulting in employees that are "burnt out"..and without sufficient morale to keep up the pace, as it were, so productivity suffers if it reaches the point of a higher turnover rate. Perhaps you may have read statements by Company Executives, in trying to justify enormous compensation plans for themselves, is that in order to attract and retain "good" management they have to offer such absurd levels of Salary. Well the same can be said of the Workers, who in general can't demand the same, but are no less important to the Companies ability to contribute to the bottom line... When Companies experience high turnover it comes at a cost..so often you'll see Trucking Companies offer sign on bonuses or other incentives to stay with the Company. Those companies often have lower wages and benefits that they are trying to compensate for.....Companies that have low turnover usually have the higher wages and benefits negating the need for gimmicks to attract employees. Look at YRC and ABF and other such Companies..The former Roadway and Yellow drivers were, in general, quite loyal and felt a sense of pride that went along with being a "Yellow Driver" or a Roadway Driver" as can be attested to by all the comments on the YRC fourm even after both no longer exist other than in the minds and hearts of those that made up those Companies...Much the same can be said of ABF Drivers...and rightfully so... Why is this? Several things...Union membership with all the benefits that come with it....such as higher wages..especially important for the "younger"workers...and the Good pensions that were also part of the deal....especially important for the "older" workers...So in the Long term.... to help achieve and maintain strong levels of productivity, it is in the best interests of companies to provide strong wages...and even more so, strong pensions for workers. I agree with your point that Those in Charge of Companies are not going to readily agree to any of this without being "forced" to.....For the most part they are shortsighted and only seem to be able to chase the dollar from quarter to quarter...without much thought beyond that... they have to make money for the shareholders right now....more short sightedness...In the long term...I don't think that Employers should necessarily have to become Union to join the pension plan....that may be more of an incentive...another factor might be in readdressing the withdrawal liability issues...If they can see there are options open without having to have it all one way or the other....all Union or no Union....that might make it an easier lift...Having low turnover rates and the resulting increase in pride of workmanship will only make sustained productivity a stronger reality....If these things are incapable of happening..the only other alternative that we have to consider in light of the situation as you noted in your remarks, would be to "force" the will of the workers. That would mean all workers uniting....not just Union vs Non-Union....all workers...and take it to the streets....in a simular manner as we have observed in the European Countries...Entire industries band together and strike...not just seductively as its always been done here.. It would basically mean a "starting over" as it began in the early days of Union formation...Much of the foundations and laws are already in place. That would make it easier...but corporate influence over politics and law enforcement would make things harder in some aspects..as witnessed by the treatment of the "Occupy" movement...agree or disagreements aside. It seems that those are the choices and the chances we have to "take back" our own economic realities as workers...as employees.....It is possible...all things are possible if the majority recognize the power they have through the numbers they have and then exercise that power....Sadly.... I see things having to get much much worse before anything happens to stop the slide on the slippery slope that were currently on.....
Thanks Grovercxl for your well thought out comments regarding my post....
In case some have not noticed we have been the highest paid drivers for decades. We have had a defined pension for decades. Yes there are less members and that has to be addressed. In my opinion Nyhan and the rest of the pension fund Trustees and the people that have been in charge from the government should be held accountable. Under the watchful eye of the government our fund has been done great harm. Some say that we are not owed nothing from the government. Who the HELL do they think screwed or pension up. They have been in charge for many many years. Nyhan has done nothing to better CSPF and hoffa keeps him there. He should be gone immediately. But the companies are not without guilt either.. There has been Trustees responsible for over seeing the fund. Where have they been all these years of decline. How many of you can name your company Trustee that sits on the CSPF Board? Not many I bet. Because they keep that on the down low. But they are there and they have done nothing. Now some come on here and cry for cuts to our pension. And I find that absurd. The companies and the government and the IBT broke it and now they want us to pay for their mistakes. They kept Goldman Sachs as one of our main investment firms for years. Now how can they be so successful with many of their other funds but yet so wrong with ours? And still nobody has called for any type of investigation into their actions. After all hoffa said they tried to put yrc out of business. So why would it not to logical to assume they did the same to our pensions. We have to fix it not throw it away. And everybody has to be held accountable for what they have done. YOUR NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT BROTHER ALWAYS!
Ah muler , you're getting into conspiracy territory now. I mean the stock market is a gamble..you win some you lose some. The government's role is to oversee corruption. The trustees are required by law to make prudent investments. Investments that suck up nickles and dimes from all over the world to provide you with a premium pension. No one was better at it then Goldman Sachs. They could smell the scent of money from miles away. Goldman Sachs did not try to put YRC out of business. They did sell investment options that paid off if YRC did shut down..so no, they did not try to do the same to our pensions. Similar to the dice table at the casino where a player could hedge his bet to reduce the possibility of losing the bet. CSPF trustees are big betters. But remember..when you bet big you win big
Gary Caldwell, ABF
Brother Joe, a number of years ago, the Wall Street Journal had put out several editorials on the actions of CALPERS, California's defined-benefit plan for it's public employees...at that time, the largest in the world, with assets in excess of 6 billion. CALPERS was advocating that pension plans....specifically Union single, and multi-employer plans...start using the weight of their stock-holdings to force non-Union and anti-Union companies to "toe the line" , as it were, to improve labor rights and conditions. CALPERS had threatened to sell off it's very large block of Wal-Mart stock in response to Wal-Mart's heavy-handed treatment of employees trying to organize. The Wall Street Journal was livid...frothing at it's metaphysical mouth about how....and I quote: "Unions do not have the right to use stock that they own through pension funds, to do Social Engineering."..............Ummm...we DO own that stock, do we?.... CALPERS was advocating that workers carry the fight right to where it really mattered with the Corporate world....right into the share-holder's meetings....as the biggest gorilla in the room. Even the Teamsters Convention later that year in Las Vegas called for the creation of a "Corporate Shareholders Strategy" department to be created. Now,....here it is several years later, and through a severe recession......which provided the reason to do so,...the rate that banks lend money to each other is....and has been for several years...0.0%. That's an historical action by the Federal Reserve,...unprecedented...they've never kept the lending rate at "0" for this long. That also happens to be the rate our Pension Fund investments grow by. Somehow......and I don't pretend to be smart enough to know how.....our investment rate is tied to this figure. Now....if Wall Street was terrified that Unions were going to show up at the shareholders meeting with armloads of stock, and start dictating Labor policy, do you think that maybe there's a possibility that Wall Street created a mess to have a reason for the Federal Reserve to artificially lower the interbank lending rate, so that they could de-fund Pension Funds, and remove their ability to gather large blocks of stock? Now, does Brother Muler look like a conspiracy theorist, or is he on to something?...............................................P.S. Pension funds should never be based on a gamble. That's immoral, in my opinion, to promise someone a certain amount if you work hard for 30 years, and after they've literally busted their back, given up their youth, family time, and health, to make the corporation rich, turn to the employee and say that through unfortunate bumbling, gambling on the stock market, their pension is now substantially lowered. That's a violation of a deep 30 year trust. The system should be changed, and NOBODY"S future should be based on that ultimate snake-pit of financial misadventure...the stock market. There needs to be a better way.......
Couple things canaryintheminein, The California public unions literately run the state. Cities in CA are filing bankruptcy etc. It is truly a Communist state run by card carrying Communists. Public unions and democrats work together to dictate policy. Let me say private unions are not a player here. Wall Street took on a lot of sub-prime toilet paper and needed a bailout but as far as the near zero US treasury bond rate..it does help Obama finance his God awful debt to a point of only paying say $4B interest a month rather then say $500B a month interest if interest rates were where they should be but kills investors who like union pensions invest in because it's a sure thing uncle sam will pay the lousy rate
This is the new CSPF plan that should be of great concern to all of us ABF Teamsters. Read page 205.
I just found this article.
According to the Form 5500s filed
with the Department of Labor, the Central States fund
has about 416,000 participants with 2,057 contributing
Brother Muler, you already know this, but I would recommend everyone on this thread to file a Form 5500 on their pension fund. Don't forget to ask for all notes and attachments, and include $10.00 for mailing, because you'll get a big stack of papers back. This is our right to file for this under ERISA. I suggest we all do this yearly as a matter of maintenance. For those who've never done this, it's an eye-opener as to how your fund is managed.
Yes Form 5500 tells where every nickle has been spent. And I also agree that many will be shocked to see who makes what. YOUR BROTHER ALWAYS!
Here is a little history on ABC(ABF).
Arkbest.com - About ABC
Check this site out. Arkansas is one of the poorest states in the country but yet look at these CEO's. And the company's they head.
Public Company CEOs | Arkansas Business News | ArkansasBusiness.com
In September 2011, ABF Freight announced the opening of offices in Indonesia, Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, Myanmar, the Philippines, India and Sri Lanka. The locations are in addition to ABF offices in China, Hong Kong and Taiwan, ABF said in a news release.
Oh and for the guy that said the CSPF has lost money every year since 2006 you wee wrong. AGAIN!
The assets of the Central States Pension Fund increased by some $2 billion in 2009, ending the year at $19.6 billion.
YOUR COUNTING THE MONEY BROTHER ALWAYS!
The assets of the Central States Pension Fund increased by some $2 billion in 2009
AS you can see it is not as doom and gloom as some would like us to believe!
F.Y.I., That guy being me, said the CSPF has average a 2.2 Billion loss since 2008. If you can find a post by me stating otherwise, please post. My quote is accurate, yours is not, per usual! How many more times does this have to be shown to you?
https://tdu.org/sites/default/files/Financial and Analytical Report-2nd Quarter-2012.pdf CSPF assets as of Jan 1, 2008 26.8 Billion, CSPF assets as of Dec 31, 2011 17.6 Billion. A loss of 9.2 Billion in 4 Years, with an [B]average around 2.2 Billion per year[/B]. JUST THE FACTS MODERATOR MULER!
You see you are the misleading one here. You did not tell the members that it was a $6,000,000,000.00(6 BILLION DOLLAR) loss in 2006 that makes it average out to 2.2 over that time period. But you failed to tell the members year by year like I did. You are the misleading person. Why did you not post that the fund grew 2 BILLION DOLLARS in 2009. I was not misleading your post was. The fund has grown since 2006 and you if honest would have stated that. Did the fund grow in 2009? YOUR FACT FINDING BROTHER ALWAYS!
The fund is going bankrupt. Anyone with commonsense can see the writing on the wall. The trend will only change if the pool of those paying into the pension grows substantially. Going from 26.8 Billion to 17.6 Billion in four years says everything you need to know. And yes, the fund increased its assets by a little in 2009 when the dow went up almost 19%. Wall St closes out '09 with best gains since 2003 | Reuters The fund lost essentially the same amount in 2011 eventhough the dow was up 5.5% for the year. Dow ends 2011 up 5%; S&P 500 finishes flat- MSN Money Again, a very troubling sign that the market is up but the pension asset base went down.
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