ABF | Pension

[Docker]

I did not see where you posted the start up money ABC paid for Value Freight,or Moving Solutions, Also we bought that moving company and lets not forget that $180,000,000.00 we spent on Panther. Not to mention the more than one thousand new tractors and the several thousand new trailers that was purchased. And since you are at it why don't you tell all our Brothers that the numbers ABC post are combined from all their subsidiaries. That's right if the planes need new tires guess who pays for them. I did not see where you posted the millions ABC spent on New cubes. I did not see where you posted the over $100,000,000.00 they spent on stock dividends to themselves during a recession. I did not see where you posted they have given themselves hundreds of thousands in raises millions in pensions for the executives. But all I hear from you is we need to give our money back to ABC. Are you kidding? I will tell you what just give me what Wes got and I will walk away happy. YOUR LOOKING FOR ANSWERS AND NOT PACKING IT IN BROTHER ALWAYS!

Great post Muler! Doesn't nothumbleenough sound more like a company man than a Teamster or is it just my imagination?

 

[nothumbleenough]

I keep hearing what is wrong but I never hear how to fix anything. If you are willing to throw your pension out the window that is your business. But I will tell you one thing. They are not throwing nothing out from their benefits. I did not work 35 years and all them make millions from me only to now sit and watch it be thrown away. CSPF made money last year for those who didn't know. So please do your homework before you go off the deep end of the pool. There are many ways to fix the pensions and throwing them out the window is not one of them.

https://www.centralstatesfunds.org/CSF/Pdf/Arbitration_Letters/5-1-2008-1st2008.pdf


https://www.centralstatesfunds.org/CSF/Pdf/Arbitration_Letters/06-07-2012-4th2011.pdf

Again, not a one year snap shot, but five year trend. The pension had 26.8 billion on 12-31-07 and 91,000 actively participating to the plan with 212,000 drawing checkings in retirement. 1 worker paying into the pension while 2.32 are drawing out a pension. Page 8 will verify my information.

At the end of 2011, the pension had 17.7 Billion in assets. 63,000 paying into the fund will 212,000 are drawing from the fund. 1 worker paying into the pension, while 3.3 are drawing out of the pension. Page 11 will verify my information.

In the five years, CSPF has paid out or lost in the market 9.1 Billion and shrank those paying into pool by 28,000. I don't see a damn thing positive about those numbers.

 

[nothumbleenough]

I did not see where you posted the start up money ABC paid for Value Freight,or Moving Solutions, Also we bought that moving company and lets not forget that $180,000,000.00 we spent on Panther. Not to mention the more than one thousand new tractors and the several thousand new trailers that was purchased. And since you are at it why don't you tell all our Brothers that the numbers ABC post are combined from all their subsidiaries. That's right if the planes need new tires guess who pays for them. I did not see where you posted the millions ABC spent on New cubes. I did not see where you posted the over $100,000,000.00 they spent on stock dividends to themselves during a recession. I did not see where you posted they have given themselves hundreds of thousands in raises millions in pensions for the executives. But all I hear from you is we need to give our money back to ABC. Are you kidding? I will tell you what just give me what Wes got and I will walk away happy. YOUR LOOKING FOR ANSWERS AND NOT PACKING IT IN BROTHER ALWAYS!

1. The financial statement tracks all assets and liabilities. All of your grievances listed above would be addressed in my link except for the Panther transaction because that took place in June of this year. Also, 80 Million was cash, the other 100 million will be borrowed. Seems like they way over paid.

2. I choose Old Dominion to do a comparison because they have a similar business model minus the pension obligation. They also buy tractors, trailers. God forbid, they might even have a corporate jet that occasionally gets new tires. The point is this is who we compete against in the marketplace and they are very profitable and we are not. If the 5 year trend that ABF is on continues, it will not be in business much longer. The market, i.e. stock market, is looking for value and consistantcy in its earnings, and ABF does not have that. That is why our stock trades at $9.39 and Old Dominion trades over $40.

 

[nothumbleenough]

Great post Muler! Doesn't nothumbleenough sound more like a company man than a Teamster or is it just my imagination?

We have a difference of opinion on the subject matter of this thread. I think that ABF should be given some sort of relief in its pension requirements, in particular having to pay for the pensions of employees who never worked a day at ABF. I do not know the exact dollar amount ABF paid into the pension. But here is what I do know, the calculation used to determine what they needed to pay had nothing to do with covering all its employees who retired from ABF.

Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen. -Winston Churchill

If it makes you feel better calling me a "company man" keep it coming.

 

[slim66]

1. The financial statement tracks all assets and liabilities. All of your grievances listed above would be addressed in my link except for the Panther transaction because that took place in June of this year. Also, 80 Million was cash, the other 100 million will be borrowed. Seems like they way over paid.

2. I choose Old Dominion to do a comparison because they have a similar business model minus the pension obligation. They also buy tractors, trailers. God forbid, they might even have a corporate jet that occasionally gets new tires. The point is this is who we compete against in the marketplace and they are very profitable and we are not. If the 5 year trend that ABF is on continues, it will not be in business much longer. The market, i.e. stock market, is looking for value and consistantcy in its earnings, and ABF does not have that. That is why our stock trades at $9.39 and Old Dominion trades over $40.

OD also does not pay overtime, their dockmen work for peanuts, they pay a high premium for cut rate insurance, their city drivers wait for loads to be ready off the clock, hell they are on that forum talking about how the drivers will pay out of their own pocket to have their trucks washed. If you want to do a comparison you should choose a company who actually compensates their work force. If you have such a problem with ABF's costs go work for OD and, as one poster on OD's board said, "just bite it and move on".

 

[Joe the plumber]

We have a difference of opinion on the subject matter of this thread. I think that ABF should be given some sort of relief in its pension requirements, in particular having to pay for the pensions of employees who never worked a day at ABF. I do not know the exact dollar amount ABF paid into the pension. But here is what I do know, the calculation used to determine what they needed to pay had nothing to do with covering all its employees who retired from ABF.

Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen. -Winston Churchill

The pensions of employees who never worked a day at ABF or YRC is the problem that is unsustainable according to them at the top and they are probably correct. But those orphans payed the dues and worked the 30 years to earn it. I've a neighbor who never even worked for a freight company who will get a $900.00 check when he turns 65. He's been out of the trade over 20 years. This is not something the carriers can just stop paying. It will take the Congress to have the PBGC pay them so figure on that not happening. The calculation used to determine what they pay retirees is based on stock market returns. The stock market has been ill since '07

 

[nothumbleenough]

OD also does not pay overtime, their dockmen work for peanuts, they pay a high premium for cut rate insurance, their city drivers wait for loads to be ready off the clock, hell they are on that forum talking about how the drivers will pay out of their own pocket to have their trucks washed. If you want to do a comparison you should choose a company who actually compensates their work force. If you have such a problem with ABF's costs go work for OD and, as one poster on OD's board said, "just bite it and move on".

Could my point quite possibly be there will be no job over here at ABF if we don't get our financial house in order. And that my fellow teamster involves no longer accepting the myth that ABF will do fine no matter what. That they can continue contributing an additional 8% every year to a pension that has been insolvent for years.

The pension has received the lionshare of our increases in contract negotiations for well over a decade. I would like the focus to be on wages, health and welfare and then the pension.

 

[Docker]

We have a difference of opinion on the subject matter of this thread. I think that ABF should be given some sort of relief in its pension requirements, in particular having to pay for the pensions of employees who never worked a day at ABF. I do not know the exact dollar amount ABF paid into the pension. But here is what I do know, the calculation used to determine what they needed to pay had nothing to do with covering all its employees who retired from ABF.

Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen. -Winston Churchill

If it makes you feel better calling me a "company man" keep it coming.

First of all...this has nothing to do with courage so that nice quote of Churchill that you provide is not applicable here.Let's just take a look at this poster called nothumbleenough...shall we? As I recall...you came over to ABF in March of 2011...correct? You say that you worked for Yellow for ten years...according to your way of thinking...why should ABF have to pay for your ten years at YRC since you are considered an orphan because YRC is not paying full rate.That's sounds hypocritical to me. Now...Just what do you know about the all out campaign of ABF and the IBT to coerce the ABF Teamsters into concessions by deceit and outright lies? And what I'm reading in your posts are nothing but a flashback of the tactics used buy ABF management for our concessions.That's why I say that you sound more like management than a Teamster...using selective facts to mislead people into thinking that the company is in dire need of financial relief on just the ABF Teamsters part.Just how deceptive was ABF...here's just one instance...they sent DVDs to each of us stating their financial distress and even went as far as taking out a loan to be able to claim that they were now in debt but neglected to mention the fact they they had a 145 million in cash reserves...so the ABF Teamsters spouses would be concerned about the financial shape of the company thus pressuring for a yes vote too.Pretty ingenious...I must say. It was stated by the company and confirmed by Tyson that ABF was losing about $10 million a month in 2010 and needed the pay cuts to keep from burning through its cash reserves.But guess what...after the concessions were voted down...what does ABF do...gave Judy a $75,000 a year raise...which just the raise is more than the average ABF Teamster makes all year...purchases Albert moving for 4 million...then purchases Panther for 180 million more.

I have stated many times in the past that ABF has very intelligent management...now tell me...do these actions sound like ABF is in dire need of financial relief? Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that we don't need to address the defined pension issue...IMO...it needs to be fixed not thrown out all together.

 

[nothumbleenough]

First of all...this has nothing to do with courage so that nice quote of Churchill that you provide is not applicable here.Let's just take a look at this poster called nothumbleenough...shall we? As I recall...you came over to ABF in March of 2011...correct? You say that you worked for Yellow for ten years...according to your way of thinking...why should ABF have to pay for your ten years at YRC since you are considered an orphan because YRC is not paying full rate.That's sounds hypocritical to me. Now...Just what do you know about the all out campaign of ABF and the IBT to coerce the ABF Teamsters into concessions by deceit and outright lies? And what I'm reading in your posts are nothing but a flashback of the tactics used buy ABF management for our concessions.That's why I say that you sound more like management than a Teamster...using selective facts to mislead people into thinking that the company is in dire need of financial relief on just the ABF Teamsters part.Just how deceptive was ABF...here's just one instance...they sent DVDs to each of us stating their financial distress and even went as far as taking out a loan to be able to claim that they were now in debt but neglected to mention the fact they they had a 145 million in cash reserves...so the ABF Teamsters spouses would be concerned about the financial shape of the company thus pressuring for a yes vote too.Pretty ingenious...I must say. It was stated by the company and confirmed by Tyson that ABF was losing about $10 million a month in 2010 and needed the pay cuts to keep from burning through its cash reserves.But guess what...after the concessions were voted down...what does ABF do...gave Judy a $75,000 a year raise...which just the raise is more than the average ABF Teamster makes all year...purchases Albert moving for 4 million...then purchases Panther for 180 million more.

I have stated many times in the past that ABF has very intelligent management...now tell me...do these actions sound like ABF is in dire need of financial relief? Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that we don't need to address the defined pension issue...IMO...it needs to be fixed not thrown out all together.

You say it sounds hypocritical that I don't believe ABF should be responsible for my years at YRC? It is the exact opposite. I am being consistant. I do not want some special exemption that allows me to be paid and no one else. I understand the big picture about the real consequences of bad decisions.

I live in Arkansas and the state wide paper just released the salaries of the states publicly traded company executives. Judy made lots of money. But nothing on the scale of the executives of Wal-Mart, Tyson Chicken, Murphy Oil or Dillards. I am not here to defend what she is paid. Maybe a better question is, what should she be paid in your opinion?

I use public information as to ascertain the legitimacy of ABF's financial stituation, and am not a member of management nor do I even have a personal relationship with a member of their management team. Ironically, I do still have contact with a member of YRC management team and can tell you with absolute certainty that YRC's executives have met (in the last two weeks) in Washington D.C. with both members of the Obama Administration and the PBGC and are working very hard to reduce the already reduced amount they put into the pension. ABF might be a party to those conversations, but they might not be either. You can call that a rumor, but the part about YRC meetings in D.C. is a fact. I haven't a clue as to their fruitfulness.

I will say again, as the question was put out by Muler, I am open to real and substantial change to the pension. The reason is simple, if everything stays the same, their is a 99% certainty ABF will go out business considering the five year trends.

 

[Docker]

You say it sounds hypocritical that I don't believe ABF should be responsible for my years at YRC? It is the exact opposite. I am being consistant. I do not want some special exemption that allows me to be paid and no one else. I understand the big picture about the real consequences of bad decisions.

I live in Arkansas and the state wide paper just released the salaries of the states publicly traded company executives. Judy made lots of money. But nothing on the scale of the executives of Wal-Mart, Tyson Chicken, Murphy Oil or Dillards. I am not here to defend what she is paid. Maybe a better question is, what should she be paid in your opinion?

I use public information as to ascertain the legitimacy of ABF's financial stituation, and am not a member of management nor do I even have a personal relationship with a member of their management team. Ironically, I do still have contact with a member of YRC management team and can tell you with absolute certainty that YRC's executives have met (in the last two weeks) in Washington D.C. with both members of the Obama Administration and the PBGC and are working very hard to reduce the already reduced amount they put into the pension. ABF might be a party to those conversations, but they might not be either. You can call that a rumor, but the part about YRC meetings in D.C. is a fact. I haven't a clue as to their fruitfulness.

I will say again, as the question was put out by Muler, I am open to real and substantial change to the pension. The reason is simple, if everything stays the same, their is a 99% certainty ABF will go out business considering the five year trends.

Let's be clear on this since I see were you are going and it's a lame direction to boot...it's not about greed or jealously at all...I don't care what Judy is paid or is it any of my business...until she comes after ours! Do you understand that point? I don't care if she get's paid 20 million a year...as long as we get paid a fair days work for a fair days pay plus decent benefits.

But you are being hypocritical...after all...you are one of those orphans you complain about...unless you are willing to throw those ten years away that YOU paid into the pension.Why don't you just think long and hard about that!

You say that you use public information as to ascertain the legitimacy of ABF's financial situation...evidently you don't research you facts and use your common sense very well...do you? Tell me...if you were worried about your future job security...would you go out and purchase a brand new home and car? Just why do you think that I mentioned the fact about buying Albert Moving and Panther...just for the hell of it?

I'm not out to destroy ABF...but at the same time...I'm not willing to sit back and let them push all the financial responsibility and blame on the ABF Teamsters either!!!!

 

[nothumbleenough]

I don't complain about the orphans. I complain about the calculation that says it is not enough that you are essentially the only company paying union scale in wages and benefits. But then goes further to say, you have to increase your pension contributions at a rate of 8% every single year. Have my wages increased anywhere near that rate? Absolutely positively not even close.

Docker, why do you draw a distinction between ABF Teamsters and other unaffilliated Teamsters?

 

[slystone]

I don't complain about the orphans. I complain about the calculation that says it is not enough that you are essentially the only company paying union scale in wages and benefits. But then goes further to say, you have to increase your pension contributions at a rate of 8% every single year. Have my wages increased anywhere near that rate? Absolutely positively not even close.

Docker, why do you draw a distinction between ABF Teamsters and other unaffilliated Teamsters?

I tend to think your way on this issue nothumbleenough. ABF is absolutely going out of business unless they get some kind of relief from this doomed pension. As an ABF employee it will only hurt our wages and job security if they continue to have to increase pension payments every year, the pension is not going to survive even if ABF put everything they made into it so why put them out of business for a lost cause, I for one would be willing to listen to ABF if they have a plan that helps its own employees. The current pension fund can pay orphans until it goes broke I guess but ABF cannot foot the bill. I will never trust a multi employer pension, THEY DO NOT WORK. I want something from ABF in my name that cannot be taken away, at this point I would agree on a matching 401k over this pension fund. Seems like most of these guys are worried more about orphans than their own families economic future.

 

[Joe the plumber]

First of allI must say. It was stated by the company and confirmed by Tyson that ABF was losing about $10 million a month in 2010 and needed the pay cuts to keep from burning through its cash reserves.

I have stated many times in the past that ABF has very intelligent management...now tell me...do these actions sound like ABF is in dire need of financial relief? Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that we don't need to address the defined pension issue...IMO...it needs to be fixed not thrown out all together.

Right on bro. They don't need no dam relief. What is wrong with them people in Fort Smith. They are in business for your comfort and convenience. They are making enough money so concessions are not warranted. Send it in bro. I see a new Escalade truck 2013 as a reward for your loyalty. The company has a moral obligation to provide this perk for helping them out in 2010 when they were losing 10's of millions.

remember

solidarity!!!​

 

[Muler]

https://www.centralstatesfunds.org/CSF/Pdf/Arbitration_Letters/5-1-2008-1st2008.pdf


https://www.centralstatesfunds.org/CSF/Pdf/Arbitration_Letters/06-07-2012-4th2011.pdf

Again, not a one year snap shot, but five year trend. The pension had 26.8 billion on 12-31-07 and 91,000 actively participating to the plan with 212,000 drawing checkings in retirement. 1 worker paying into the pension while 2.32 are drawing out a pension. Page 8 will verify my information.

At the end of 2011, the pension had 17.7 Billion in assets. 63,000 paying into the fund will 212,000 are drawing from the fund. 1 worker paying into the pension, while 3.3 are drawing out of the pension. Page 11 will verify my information.

In the five years, CSPF has paid out or lost in the market 9.1 Billion and shrank those paying into pool by 28,000. I don't see a damn thing positive about those numbers.

Your take on the CSPF is to say the least cloudy. Yes those that did our investing(Goldman Sachs) Since gone! Did poorly in their duties to grow our fund. The bulk of the 9 Billion dollar shrinkage was due to the recession and that has since begin to climb back. CSPF assets grew last year. You throw numbers out like 1 worker pay for 3 retirees. That is not completely true. The number of retirees is correct but that is where you get the FACTS WRONG! You sir did not tell the complete truth. How many of those retirees pensions are being paid by UPS? After all you have to know that the agreement between CSPF and UPS made UPS responsible for all UPS retirees under 65 and from age 65 on CSPF pays their pensions.
Changes the picture doesn't it. Your figures then don't look so frightening. You call Teamsters orphans so then shouldn't your years at yrc be considered orphan years? Surely you don't expect ABF to make good on those years if anything should ever happen to yrc.
We lost 9 Billion in the stock market. 401k plans lost TRILLIONS. So wouldn't that make a 401K more dangerous than a defined pension plan? The CSPF needs fixed not destroyed. I have yet to hear what you would have happen to those at ABF who have 30 or more years in the funds. Because after all if ABF is allowed out or defers pension payments then we will all suffer the same penalties as the yrc Teamsters. So am I to believe that you are willing to throw the pensions of all the ABF Teamsters in the dumpster. I can assure you this will not happen. There are more of us ABF Teamsters that have many years in the funds and it would not be in our best interest to have our pensions cut in half because of default rules in the CSPF.
What would we have to lose on staying in the CSPF. After all if we let ABF out our pensions will be cut in half. And if some day the CSPF goes into default and the government takes it over we will receive half of our pension. So you see we the vested Teamsters have nothing to lose pension wise.
Now that we have determined that your claim of the SKY IS FALLING doesn't hold any water we should really move on. WE HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE!

Somehow you keep referring to me calling for ABF to pay more and I have ask you on several occasions to quote my post saying that. But I know you can't because I never said that. So please post that you made that up so as not to look like you fabricate things. I'm, Just saying.

Now on the 8% statement again you make it sound as though the SKY IS FALLING. Do you even know what the weekly contribution is?

The funds need fixed not destroyed.
I am just a little concerned on your calling Teamsters Orphans.
Did you call them Orphans when they walked pickets lines in the extreme weathers conditions So you today could enjoy a good wage and work rules? Did you call us orphans when we fought to have an Article placed in our NMFA holding the companies to a maintenance standard for Trucks. Yes before your time many Teamsters had to breath diesel fumes due to there not being any language on vehicle maintenance standards. So all those Teamsters that died so you today have a much safer and maintained vehicle.

No I can't say you are management but you sure sound like management to me though.

Now I have heard you complain a lot about what is wrong. Now I would like to hear some Ideas you have to fix it.

Funny when you think you don't need someone they quickly become an Orphan. I will assure you of this (brother) you may think you don't need your fellow Teamsters(ORPHANS) but you will need them someday soon. And what are you going to do when they refer to you as the ORPHAN?

You cut and ran at yrc and I am confident you would do the same here at ABF given the chance. After all you are the loudest on this thread beating the drum to cut the yrc Teamsters. And you worked there TEN YEARS! Loyalty doesn't seem to be one of your strong suits.
Ten Years and you want them destroyed. As a Teamster I must say SHAME ON YOU!
I along with every other ABF Teamster wants ABF to survive and grow. After all we were doing that before you came here. But unlike you we will see to it that they do it the RIGHT WAY. Not like COWARDS! We will stand toe to toe with the company and hammer out a FAIR AND HONEST CONTRACT that benefits all parties.
But one last thought for you and any other ABF Teamster that thinks ABF pays to much. You can write them a check each week returning what ever amount of your pay you deem they deserve back because they paid to much on your behalf. I'm sure they will be very grateful.

YOUR WORKING HARD AND EARNING EVERYTHING I GET BROTHER ALWAYS!

 

[Muler]

I tend to think your way on this issue nothumbleenough. ABF is absolutely going out of business unless they get some kind of relief from this doomed pension. As an ABF employee it will only hurt our wages and job security if they continue to have to increase pension payments every year, the pension is not going to survive even if ABF put everything they made into it so why put them out of business for a lost cause, I for one would be willing to listen to ABF if they have a plan that helps its own employees. The current pension fund can pay orphans until it goes broke I guess but ABF cannot foot the bill. I will never trust a multi employer pension, THEY DO NOT WORK. I want something from ABF in my name that cannot be taken away, at this point I would agree on a matching 401k over this pension fund. Seems like most of these guys are worried more about orphans than their own families economic future.

You talk like we don't know what is best for our families. And you do. Many of us have raised our families and we know what it takes. You seem more concerned about your little world. I can tell you from experience if you choose that path you will not like the outcome. Do you think ABF would pay you the wage you make today if they had not been forced to do so by the threat of a strike. They would not. If you were not here during our BEG BACK VOTE. ABF said none of the money given back would go towards discounts to customers. They said it would go back into the company bank accounts. That doesn't help us grow just their bonuses. But I have no problem with them making their money just keep their hands off my money and benefits. I hope you know any deferral or reduced contribution triggers penalties that cut ABF Teamster pensions in half because of DEFAULT language in the funds rules. And you come on here wanting this for your fellow workers. It can't happen. We have nothing to lose. If the funds go broke our pensions will be cut in half. We really don't have any pressure on us for that reason. ABF has to come up with something that is better for us or it will fail miserably. And the way you talk about your fellow Teamsters why should we give a damn about you and your family? You see you do need your fellow Teamsters or your butt will be left out there in the cold. So may I suggest you start seeing yourself as a TEAM PLAYER. We are not here to break ABF but we will get a fair and honest contract. YOUR HAVING NOTHING TO LOSE BROTHER ALWAYS!

 

[Muler]

1. The financial statement tracks all assets and liabilities. All of your grievances listed above would be addressed in my link except for the Panther transaction because that took place in June of this year. Also, 80 Million was cash, the other 100 million will be borrowed. Seems like they way over paid.

2. I choose Old Dominion to do a comparison because they have a similar business model minus the pension obligation. They also buy tractors, trailers. God forbid, they might even have a corporate jet that occasionally gets new tires. The point is this is who we compete against in the marketplace and they are very profitable and we are not. If the 5 year trend that ABF is on continues, it will not be in business much longer. The market, i.e. stock market, is looking for value and consistantcy in its earnings, and ABF does not have that. That is why our stock trades at $9.39 and Old Dominion trades over $40.

Are you for real saying you see OD as a business model of ABF. Well maybe if ABF did not pay us the overtime they pay and if they did not supply our health insurance. And if they lowered our hourly wage then maybe your statement would be true. But no they don't and ABF does. Like I said before if you think ABF is paying you too much write them a check at the end of every week. And on the matter of the stock price. Just watch the SEC Filings and see when the executives exercise their STOCK OPTIONS! AND BUY AND BUY! You have to come up with better stuff than this. YOUR WAITING TO SEE THE CANCELED CHECKS BROTHER ALWAYS!

 

[nothumbleenough]

You cut and ran at yrc and I am confident you would do the same here at ABF given the chance. After all you are the loudest on this thread beating the drum to cut the yrc Teamsters. And you worked there TEN YEARS! Loyalty doesn't seem to be one of your strong suits.
Ten Years and you want them destroyed. As a Teamster I must say SHAME ON YOU!
I along with every other ABF Teamster wants ABF to survive and grow. After all we were doing that before you came here. But unlike you we will see to it that they do it the RIGHT WAY. Not like COWARDS! We will stand toe to toe with the company and hammer out a FAIR AND HONEST CONTRACT that benefits all parties.
But one last thought for you and any other ABF Teamster that thinks ABF pays to much. You can write them a check each week returning what ever amount of your pay you deem they deserve back because they paid to much on your behalf. I'm sure they will be very grateful.

YOUR WORKING HARD AND EARNING EVERYTHING I GET BROTHER ALWAYS!

I could do without the personal attack on my integrity. This is a forum that allows different opinions to be discussed. I believe you actually started this thread and am simply discussing why I am open to other options on the pension.

F.Y.I. Yes, I left Yellow. The reason was simple. I had served most of my time "running a sleeper" out of Kansas City. Every time I got close to be able to maintain a living running single, a Change of Operation would take place and Kansas City would gain sleeper runs and lose single runs. As a father with many children still in my house, I was unwilling to accept years more on a sleeper. Call it what you want, I made the best decision for my family.

 

[nothumbleenough]

Muler, thanks for the dialogue.

My suggestion is a fairly simple one. Get ABF and YRC paying the same amount into the pension. Do not allow one to have a competitive advantage against the other. If the workers want a concession, allow them to vote on a wage or health and welfare reduction.

Everyone takes a haircut on their pension. Not as hard or dramatic as a pension failure whereby a retired teamster gets roughly .28cents on the dollar.

It will take an actuary firm quite a while to break down the numbers but something could be put together based on contributing years and when the contributions took place. We the Teamsters can help determine certain priorities in their funding decisions. For instance, whose pensions get cut the least like for the widows of deceased Teamsters. Teamsters of the companies that have continued to fulfill their pension obligations get the next level of funding. Those companies long since out of business get the next level. And those that pay only partial contributions get the next higher level. Lastly, those Teamsters that have at least 10 years before they retire, get the hardest hit.

I have put on paper my thoughts. There are other questions I undoubtedly am not covering, but believe the basic formula would work.

 

[Muler]

I could do without the personal attack on my integrity. This is a forum that allows different opinions to be discussed. I believe you actually started this thread and am simply discussing why I am open to other options on the pension.

F.Y.I. Yes, I left Yellow. The reason was simple. I had served most of my time "running a sleeper" out of Kansas City. Every time I got close to be able to maintain a living running single, a Change of Operation would take place and Kansas City would gain sleeper runs and lose single runs. As a father with many children still in my house, I was unwilling to accept years more on a sleeper. Call it what you want, I made the best decision for my family.

I can not help it if you find what you have posted in the past makes it look as though as though I am attacking you. You did leave yrc while they are still in business. You are asking to separate from them. You are asking penalties for Teamsters who worked for out of business companies. You are calling for ABF Teamsters to as you put it TAKE A HAIRCUT! If that sounds as though I am attacking you them you must have a self hate for yourself. Because those are just a few of the things you have been calling for. Not attacking just debating someone that has a different view than myself. Why is it when someone knows they are losing the debate do they start calling FOUL! I believe you are way off base and so does most of the other ABF Teamsters. So quit crying foul and state your concerns. YOUR STANDING LIKE A MAN BROTHER ALWAYS!

 

[Muler]

Muler, thanks for the dialogue.

My suggestion is a fairly simple one. Get ABF and YRC paying the same amount into the pension. Do not allow one to have a competitive advantage against the other. If the workers want a concession, allow them to vote on a wage or health and welfare reduction.

Everyone takes a haircut on their pension. Not as hard or dramatic as a pension failure whereby a retired teamster gets roughly .28cents on the dollar.

It will take an actuary firm quite a while to break down the numbers but something could be put together based on contributing years and when the contributions took place. We the Teamsters can help determine certain priorities in their funding decisions. For instance, whose pensions get cut the least like for the widows of deceased Teamsters. Teamsters of the companies that have continued to fulfill their pension obligations get the next level of funding. Those companies long since out of business get the next level. And those that pay only partial contributions get the next higher level. Lastly, those Teamsters that have at least 10 years before they retire, get the hardest hit.

I have put on paper my thoughts. There are other questions I undoubtedly am not covering, but believe the basic formula would work.

Spoken like a true company man. No we will not take a lower benefit package in our pension pay outs. That is a no brainier. We may talk about ABF guaranteeing our pension as a single company but a reduction in our retirement pay out is not even going to be on the table. You are funny(SO as not to make you feel as though I am attacking you).
You talk of slaughtering fellow Teamsters as though they are worthless. I am glad that our fellow Teamsters had the chance to read your post. Now they can see that people do exist that think like you.
We will hammer out a fair and just contract and it won't include HAIRCUTS FOR OURSELVES! YOUR TEAMSTER BROTHER ALWAYS!