People Are Officially Done With John Kelly After His 'Absurd' Civil War Comments

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Magoo, Nov 1, 2017.

  1. Magoo

    Magoo You don't have to be Einstein to figure it out

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  2. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

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    Amazing.........

    One of the books I am reading now is U.S. Grant's memoirs,..........Not the newest book,...but the one written in 1886, and published by Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens. General Grant makes it very, very clear that the Civil War was fought over slavery,...starting in the fourth chapter and recurring throughout the 500 or so pages I've read so far..

    This is viewed through the lens of the 19th Century,....untouched by any 20th Century media spin. Of course,....any casual student of history can cite the Dred Scott decision of 1850,....the Missouri Compromise,......and enough references as to how slavery was viewed as a corrosive force on our democracy,...all the way back to Thomas Jefferson's warning of a "national conflagration" in the future over slavery.

    General Kelly was born in 1950,....four years older than me. I know I certainly didn't hear about slavery being an issue in the public school education I got in the '60's,....He probably didn't either. We were told it was "State's Rights". A bare mention or two about slavery.

    General Kelly has,...or had... a high reputation as an honorable person.

    Apparently, the old adage, " When you lie down with swine, you get up covered in pig (manure).." still holds true......What a shame....
     
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  3. Magoo

    Magoo You don't have to be Einstein to figure it out

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    I have Vol 1 with no printing date so I assume it was the first printing. Volume 2 must be hard to find. Has .Interesting hand written notes they included in the book. Have yet to make it very far. My reading is now left to bed time and puts me to sleep.
     
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  4. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

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    After U.S. Grant was President, a person he trusted messed up Grant's personal finances, and put him close to bankruptcy. Samuel Clemens thought it was a national disgrace to let that happen to a former President, so he came up with a scheme to publish General Grant's memoirs.

    They were a best seller in the 1880's,.....and to Clemens' honor,...he turned all the profit back to General Grant and his family,....only keeping the printing and distribution costs. Got his family out of bankruptcy. General Grant died of throat cancer as the last pages were transcribed.

    Several re-prints over the years broke the memoirs into several volumes.......I've got a recent printing, and the publisher put all 879 pages under one cover......About 3 inches thick.......Makes a helluva fly swatter......Too big to prop up the short leg of a four-legged table though........
     
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  5. Rastus

    Rastus ......Deplorable.....

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    Maybe he ment the south didn't compromise by giving up slavery, but nice propoganda.
     
  6. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    We're the same age. I went to school in Pennsylvania. All I ever heard was slavery as the reason. Methinks you're changing the tune after the fact????
     
  7. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

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    One man's Propaganda,.....is another man's Russian-bought internet meme. How's that for a Twenty-First Century proverb?
     
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  8. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

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    Maybe you had a better teacher. I had read Bruce Catton's trilogy on the Civil war by the time I was 14,..........and I had noticed it was distinctly at odds with what was mentioned in my classroom. There was much more of an emphasis on State's Rights than there was slavery.

    To be fair,....slavery was mentioned,....but the emphasis,...the main thrust of the teacher's syllabus,....was the effect of State's Rights. That was my perception as a 14 year old, anyway.

    Now that we're both older,...I guess there is a consensus that slavery was what brought on the deep political divisions of that time.
     
  9. Rastus

    Rastus ......Deplorable.....

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    Graduated in 1973, slavery was taught the reason, I don't recall states rights being mentioned.
    Maybe it's a north/south thing.
    I don't believe anyone in my extended family had residence in the until the 1970's.
     
  10. Rastus

    Rastus ......Deplorable.....

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    More crap.
     
  11. ABFer

    ABFer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I graduated in 1976, I was taught that the South's attempt to secede was the primary reason for the Civil War with slavery being a factor. I often wonder how many teachers are 'teaching' bad information.
     
  12. Rastus

    Rastus ......Deplorable.....

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    Oh yeah, forgot, it was a long time ago.
     
  13. Rastus

    Rastus ......Deplorable.....

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    One episode of the Netflix series madmen set in the later sixties one character accused another of being a racist. Racist wasn't used in the sixties prejudice or bigotry was.
    Racist was used in later years because of its vague definition(s).

    Otherwise the stuff in that drama seems pretty period correct.
     
  14. Magoo

    Magoo You don't have to be Einstein to figure it out

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    I think Clemons was broke and bankrupt before that so he knew what it was like.
    Terrible that the US would let a former President go to the poor house with no pension.My great grandfather received a pension for the Civil War I think something around 6 or 8 dollars a month
     
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  15. Bubba74

    Bubba74 Well-Known Member

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    The Civil War was fought over economics and power
    The northern states were industrialized the southern states agricultural
    Slavery was needed in the southern states because of the massive amounts of labor needed in cotton
    The north did not need slavery thus as each new state or territory was admitted into the union senators from the north and south had to compromise over how the state would be admitted slave or free
    If the balance became to skewed towards the north, the south would lose all its power
    Thus, Kelly was right lack of compromise
    But hey, i heard my entire life it was slavery

    My simple response, you find 500,000 poor white northerners or southerners that are going to go put their lives on the line for slaves
     
  16. jimmy g

    jimmy g Kook

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    You do like to name drop..... Methinks you change stories to fit the post? I too had Caton's book before Jr High. Still do. It's still on my Bookshelf. I'm not home to take a picture tho.

    I never heard the States Rights version until Mike Church radio, circa 2010.
     
  17. AzPilot

    AzPilot Well-Known Member

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    Hey I graduated in the Bicentennial also.
     
  18. ABFer

    ABFer Super Moderator Staff Member

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    :usa: I never found it anywhere else but one teacher also 'taught' us (my class) that there was one state that chose not to secede and they were permitted to keep their slaves for a period after the Civil War was over.
     
  19. 20_yrs_2_go

    20_yrs_2_go Well-Known Member

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    If I remember right gen. Grant left his finances to his brother or a close relative who gambled it away while he was at war
     
  20. canaryinthemine

    canaryinthemine Retirement....The Job I Was Born To Have!

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    Just out of curiosity,..........Where in Pennsylvania did you go to school? I'm in W. Pa., close to Pittsburgh......I went to Gateway in Monroeville for a year, Penn Hills for about two months,.....and then Plum Boro for about a year and a half until I dropped out to go into the Air Force in '72'.

    Those are all in the eastern 'burbs of Pittsburgh. You anywhere near that? We might've been classmates,.....that is , if I had bothered to regularly go to class.....
     

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