FedEx Freight | Policy Update: Active collision mitigation system & Fwd facing cameras

[Southerntrucker]

There we go that famous quote to leave. Why don't you leave I'm vested just like you just want to make it better. Isn't that what a democracy is all about. That's like saying if you don't like your president why don't you pack up the kids,pets,and move to another country. So intelligent

For one I don't have any issues with what's

First off, for both of you: We need to remove the emotion, and drama. Then we'll look at FACTS. Agreed? Excellent.

Let's use math, since no one gets emotional or dramatic over math, right?

Let's 1st convert MPH to FPS (feet per second) by multiplying speed X 1.467 (actually 1.46667, but who's counting?). At 60 mph, a two second following distance equates to 176 feet. At 55, two seconds equates to 161.37 feet. Kind of hard to call that "tailgating".

According Swampratt's new collegiate dictionary:

Tailgate: \ˈtāl-ˌgāt\
transitive verb

1) To ride directly on one's ass.

Now, Merriam-Webster defines it a little more vague, subjective if you will.

intransitive verb
1) to drive dangerously close behind another vehicle.

Either way, following at a distance of more than half the length of a football field is in no way tailgating. Unwise, for an extended period of time? Certainly. Unlawful, for a limited amount of time? No. Dangerous? Depends on a variety of variables.

We can talk about all the benefits of a larger following distance, if you'd like. I'm all in with that. But let's stick with facts and skip the drama.

Let's do a little more math. Take your 176 ft.....take 1.5 second reaction time off of that. So 3/4 of the space your giving equals 132 ft for reaction time. That leaves you 44 feet of space. According to your math......A normal passenger vehicle such as a car or small pickup truck will normally take approximately 316 feet to come to a complete stop after recognizing the need to stop. In comparison, a semi truck takes about 525 feet before it comes to a complete stop after recognizing the need to stop. This is an important aspect of a truck accident case as the stopping distance is often a question answered through accident reconstruction. Do you still think that that's not tailgating or are you really that dumb.........

 

[Crazy Trucker]

If it takes 1.5 seconds to respond to something right in front of you with your eyes on it while driving you must be really old or half asleep. Lol carry on.

 

[Southerntrucker]

If it takes 1.5 seconds to respond to something right in front of you with your eyes on it while driving you must be really old or half asleep. Lol carry on.

1.) Driver Reaction Times (tr)
Driver reaction time includes recognizing the light has changed, deciding to continue or brake, and if stopping engaging the brake (remove foot from accelerator and apply brake). Reaction times vary greatly with situation and from person to person between about 0.7 to 3 seconds (sec or s) or more. Some accident reconstruction specialists use 1.5 seconds. A controlled study in 2000 (IEA2000_ABS51.pdf) found average driver reaction brake time to be 2.3 seconds. The study included all driver types, test were conducted on a controlled track and in a driving simulator.

Driver Reaction Times
0.7 sec -- about as fast as it gets
1.0 sec -- old standard
1.5 sec -- common use
2.0 sec -- common use
2.3 sec -- AVERAGE
2.5 sec -- used in a few states
3.0 sec -- NSC and UK Standard
A few states, including California, have adopted a standard driver reaction time of 2.5 seconds. The United Kingdom's Highway Code and the Association of Chief Police Officers ACPO Code of Practice for Operational Use of Road Policing Enforcement Technology use 3.0 seconds for driver reaction time. The National Safety Council (NSC) recommends 3 seconds minimum spacing (3 second reaction time) between vehicles traveling in the same lane......I guess you're super trucker....

 

[Southerntrucker]

If it takes 1.5 seconds to respond to something right in front of you with your eyes on it while driving you must be really old or half asleep. Lol carry on.

1.) Driver Reaction Times (tr)
Driver reaction time includes recognizing the light has changed, deciding to continue or brake, and if stopping engaging the brake (remove foot from accelerator and apply brake). Reaction times vary greatly with situation and from person to person between about 0.7 to 3 seconds (sec or s) or more. Some accident reconstruction specialists use 1.5 seconds. A controlled study in 2000 (IEA2000_ABS51.pdf) found average driver reaction brake time to be 2.3 seconds. The study included all driver types, test were conducted on a controlled track and in a driving simulator.

Driver Reaction Times
0.7 sec -- about as fast as it gets
1.0 sec -- old standard
1.5 sec -- common use
2.0 sec -- common use
2.3 sec -- AVERAGE
2.5 sec -- used in a few states
3.0 sec -- NSC and UK Standard
A few states, including California, have adopted a standard driver reaction time of 2.5 seconds. The United Kingdom's Highway Code and the Association of Chief Police Officers ACPO Code of Practice for Operational Use of Road Policing Enforcement Technology use 3.0 seconds for driver reaction time. The National Safety Council (NSC) recommends 3 seconds minimum spacing (3 second reaction time) between vehicles traveling in the same lane......I guess you're super trucker....

 

[Redracer3136]

I would like to find the answer to how we pass a slower vehicle since that's when primarily the headway gets me in trouble.
Increasing following distance does not resolve that issue.
Increase truck speed maybe. We could only wish right. The Kenworth and Peterbilt have a second guauge built in so there's no reason to get a headway just following someone. The Volvo's do not. Frieghtliners I don't know , haven't driven one.
You can increase it to 10 seconds following and you still will come up to a slower vehicle with no chance to pass in there 3 minute senerio.
90% of the time a big truck has you pined behind the vehicle your overtaking and when you get a hole to pass your on the other trucks ass trying to complete the pass. THE Last thing I want to do is slow down while I passing the said vehicle because I got to get the following distance behind the vehicle I just got behind till I finish the pass. We all know very well it can take longer than 3 minutes.
This is the main area unless you are a tailgater that you will find a disagreement with the new policy.
Trucks run on momentum and we can't change that.

I'm not sure I follow you Gator...are you saying that you must complete a pass within 3mins in order not to get an event triggered??

 

[Crazy Trucker]

1.) Driver Reaction Times (tr)
Driver reaction time includes recognizing the light has changed, deciding to continue or brake, and if stopping engaging the brake (remove foot from accelerator and apply brake). Reaction times vary greatly with situation and from person to person between about 0.7 to 3 seconds (sec or s) or more. Some accident reconstruction specialists use 1.5 seconds. A controlled study in 2000 (IEA2000_ABS51.pdf) found average driver reaction brake time to be 2.3 seconds. The study included all driver types, test were conducted on a controlled track and in a driving simulator.

Driver Reaction Times
0.7 sec -- about as fast as it gets
1.0 sec -- old standard
1.5 sec -- common use
2.0 sec -- common use
2.3 sec -- AVERAGE
2.5 sec -- used in a few states
3.0 sec -- NSC and UK Standard
A few states, including California, have adopted a standard driver reaction time of 2.5 seconds. The United Kingdom's Highway Code and the Association of Chief Police Officers ACPO Code of Practice for Operational Use of Road Policing Enforcement Technology use 3.0 seconds for driver reaction time. The National Safety Council (NSC) recommends 3 seconds minimum spacing (3 second reaction time) between vehicles traveling in the same lane......I guess you're super trucker....

I guess i must be a super duper trucker. Lol

 

[Southerntrucker]

To those of you that don't have them and are getting them.....the forward facing cameras are not that big of a deal.....I've done my share of being up someones butt to get around. Or blocked behind someone going slow....we all have. You'll have to adjust your driving style. It's really not that big of a deal.....I've followed xpo trucks at 63 64 mph letting my vorad pace them at the 3.6 seconds it's set at. For 60-70 miles....I've never taken anymore than 3 or 4 minutes longer on my 250 mile turn to run it...if you are worried about 5 extra minutes on the dock or on delay everyday I'm thinking you have bigger issues that need addressed...

 

[Gator]

I'm not sure I follow you Gator...are you saying that you must complete a pass within 3mins in order not to get an event triggered??

Yes once you fall in the 3 minute 2 second event you have 3 minutes or it will start recording if you are still within the 2 second boundaries, yes you can back off to 2.1 seconds and start the event all over but do you want to get a gap when your already passing. You will understand more of what I'm talking about when you get your elog.
What I find funny is if your under 55 mph you can tailgate all day long a never get a recording.

 

[Gator]

To those of you that don't have them and are getting them.....the forward facing cameras are not that big of a deal.....I've done my share of being up someones butt to get around. Or blocked behind someone going slow....we all have. You'll have to adjust your driving style. It's really not that big of a deal.....I've followed xpo trucks at 63 64 mph letting my vorad pace them at the 3.6 seconds it's set at. For 60-70 miles....I've never taken anymore than 3 or 4 minutes longer on my 250 mile turn to run it...if you are worried about 5 extra minutes on the dock or on delay everyday I'm thinking you have bigger issues that need addressed...

I'm not going to argue your point and I know where your coming from but that is your choice to follow instead of pass a slower vehicle. My self I feel I'm out here long enough and 5 minutes isn't a big deal to some but I don't like being forced to run at someone's else's speed.

 

[Redracer3136]

Yes once you fall in the 3 minute 2 second event you have 3 minutes or it will start recording if you are still within the 2 second boundaries, yes you can back off to 2.1 seconds and start the event all over but do you want to get a gap when your already passing. You will understand more of what I'm talking about when you get your elog.
What I find funny is if your under 55 mph you can tailgate all day long a never get a recording.

So what you're saying is if you come up on someone traveling say 63mph in the right lane and you pull out to pass, you only have 3mins to complete the pass, even if no one is in front of you in the left lane?
I'm confused.

 

[Gator]

So what you're saying is if you come up on someone traveling say 63mph in the right lane and you pull out to pass, you only have 3mins to complete the pass, even if no one is in front of you in the left lane?
I'm confused.

No that would not trigger any event as long as you have a clear path Infront of you.
What will trigger is you are approaching a slower vehicle and you have a choice follow or pass, you decide to pass but there is a flow of traffic in the passing lane usually big trucks that are not going to much faster than you but there there. So you have fallen into the 2 second following distance trying to find a gap in the passing traffic to pass. As soon as you came up on the slower vehicle your going to pass and you crossed the 2 second boundary and you may stay there trying to keep the speed up to get out to pass for say a full minute and you finally get out behind another big truck and you ride in the 2 second boundaries to finish the pass because you never broke the cycle of two seconds following on either vehicle in 3 minutes a event will be triggered at that time.
So yes you can get in the hole in the passing lane and established a 2 second distance and **** people off your slowing down in the passing lane because your behind another vehicle. So at that point there was no reason to pass but to remain behind the slower vehicle.

 

[Redracer3136]

No that would not trigger any event as long as you have a clear path Infront of you.
What will trigger is you are approaching a slower vehicle and you have a choice follow or pass, you decide to pass but there is a flow of traffic in the passing lane usually big trucks that are not going to much faster than you but there there. So you have fallen into the 2 second following distance trying to find a gap in the passing traffic to pass. As soon as you came up on the slower vehicle your going to pass and you crossed the 2 second boundary and you may stay there trying to keep the speed up to get out to pass for say a full minute and you finally get out behind another big truck and you ride in the 2 second boundaries to finish the pass because you never broke the cycle of two seconds following on either vehicle in 3 minutes a event will be triggered at that time.
So yes you can get in the hole in the passing lane and established a 2 second distance and **** people off your slowing down in the passing lane because your behind another vehicle. So at that point there was no reason to pass but to remain behind the slower vehicle.

Thanks for the clarification!!

 

[Big Dave]

Poor Gator...20 posts before anyone else (not me, this hat covers a big brain) could finally figure out what he was getting at???
Good thing you're so cute, Red...
Is Swamp's dictionary online?

 

[Crazy Trucker]

Yes once you fall in the 3 minute 2 second event you have 3 minutes or it will start recording if you are still within the 2 second boundaries, yes you can back off to 2.1 seconds and start the event all over but do you want to get a gap when your already passing. You will understand more of what I'm talking about when you get your elog.
What I find funny is if your under 55 mph you can tailgate all day long a never get a recording.

Yeah the under 55mph deal doesn't make sense to me either. I would say the majority of accidents of someone rear ending someone is under 55mph.

 

[Gator]

Poor Gator...20 posts before anyone else (not me, this hat covers a big brain) could finally figure out what he was getting at???
Good thing you're so cute, Red...
Is Swamp's dictionary online?

That's OK it wasn't simple CB chatter

 

[SwampRatt]

For one I don't have any issues with what's

Let's do a little more math. Take your 176 ft.....take 1.5 second reaction time off of that. So 3/4 of the space your giving equals 132 ft for reaction time. That leaves you 44 feet of space. According to your math......A normal passenger vehicle such as a car or small pickup truck will normally take approximately 316 feet to come to a complete stop after recognizing the need to stop. In comparison, a semi truck takes about 525 feet before it comes to a complete stop after recognizing the need to stop. This is an important aspect of a truck accident case as the stopping distance is often a question answered through accident reconstruction. Do you still think that that's not tailgating or are you really that dumb.........

First, let me answer your final question. The fact that I had to look that term up, to be certain of the definition, leads us to conclude that I'm not only THAT dumb, but "dumber THAN that". https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dumb I play the hand I'm dealt, as best I can.

Having established that, I hope you'll forgive me for asking lots of questions.

Your number for reaction time seems quite high. Averages for alert drivers is closer to 3/4 second. Are you are including perception time in your number?

What speed did you use to calculate this stopping distance?

The ATA (Safety Management Council) uses 55 MPH and estimates "braking time/distance" at 4.5 seconds/363.83 feet. When adding perception, reaction, and braking, they conclude a potential total stopping distance of 566 feet. This has long been considered the gospel.

The flaw in the above comes from the calculation of 55 mph x 1.47 x 4.5 seconds. Do you see any missing piece to the calculation? Think about it for a minute...

Ok, from the moment the brakes are activated, speed begins to drop. Agree? At no point, not even a split second, after application does vehicle speed remain constant. Agree? Is the speed actually 55 for 4.5 seconds? Is the actual distance required lower than their estimate? Please help me.

Would you also agree that an alert driver closing to within the 2 second window, might either be already covering the brake or planning a lane change? Might the covering of the brake reduce your estimate of time/space required? Does the braking ability of the lead vehicle not also factor in?

I'm not arguing FOR a 2 second (or less) following distance. In fact, we are likely on the same page in terms of "best practices" and the benefits of 4 or more second following distances. There are many. Agree?

Also, I am quite willing and capable of following all policies and guidelines, while recognizing the flaw in the calculation.

My beef with you comes only from your miss-characterization of a 2 second following distance as "tailgating". Most would agree that 170 feet, more or less, is not tailgating. To use that term provides a false narrative, plain and simple.

If you still disagree, please tell the class about your typical day. Do you look around and see EVERYONE TAILGATING? Almost everyone? By your definition, is EVERYONE EXCEPT YOU, guilty of tailgating?

 

[SwampRatt]

Poor Gator...20 posts before anyone else (not me, this hat covers a big brain) could finally figure out what he was getting at???
Good thing you're so cute, Red...
Is Swamp's dictionary online?

1)Hey, I recognized his point too, the first time around.
2)That is a good thing
3)The online version is coming soon, to your favorite browser. You'll be amazed at the never before seen words. Stay tuned!

 

[Redracer3136]

Poor Gator...20 posts before anyone else (not me, this hat covers a big brain) could finally figure out what he was getting at???
Good thing you're so cute, Red...
Is Swamp's dictionary online?

Don't know about Swamp's dictionary but in mine, cute is one step above ugly!!

 

[Redracer3136]

That's OK it wasn't simple CB chatter

To my defense since I don't have a camera, had it been simple CB chatter I would've picked right up...while pushing him out of the way!!

 

[Southerntrucker]

First, let me answer your final question. The fact that I had to look that term up, to be certain of the definition, leads us to conclude that I'm not only THAT dumb, but "dumber THAN that". https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dumb I play the hand I'm dealt, as best I can.

Having established that, I hope you'll forgive me for asking lots of questions.

Your number for reaction time seems quite high. Averages for alert drivers is closer to 3/4 second. Are you are including perception time in your number?

What speed did you use to calculate this stopping distance?

The ATA (Safety Management Council) uses 55 MPH and estimates "braking time/distance" at 4.5 seconds/363.83 feet. When adding perception, reaction, and braking, they conclude a potential total stopping distance of 566 feet. This has long been considered the gospel.

The flaw in the above comes from the calculation of 55 mph x 1.47 x 4.5 seconds. Do you see any missing piece to the calculation? Think about it for a minute...

Ok, from the moment the brakes are activated, speed begins to drop. Agree? At no point, not even a split second, after application does vehicle speed remain constant. Agree? Is the speed actually 55 for 4.5 seconds? Is the actual distance required lower than their estimate? Please help me.

Would you also agree that an alert driver closing to within the 2 second window, might either be already covering the brake or planning a lane change? Might the covering of the brake reduce your estimate of time/space required? Does the braking ability of the lead vehicle not also factor in?

I'm not arguing FOR a 2 second (or less) following distance. In fact, we are likely on the same page in terms of "best practices" and the benefits of 4 or more second following distances. There are many. Agree?

Also, I am quite willing and capable of following all policies and guidelines, while recognizing the flaw in the calculation.

My beef with you comes only from your miss-characterization of a 2 second following distance as "tailgating". Most would agree that 170 feet, more or less, is not tailgating. To use that term provides a false narrative, plain and simple.

If you still disagree, please tell the class about your typical day. Do you look around and see EVERYONE TAILGATING? Almost everyone? By your definition, is EVERYONE EXCEPT YOU, guilty of tailgating?

Tailgating is the act of driving on a road too close to the vehicle in front, such that the distance between the two vehicles does not guarantee that stopping to avoid collision is possible.

The safe distance for following another vehicle varies depending on various factors including vehicle speed, weather, visibility and other road conditions. Some jurisdictions may require a minimal gap of a specified distance or time interval.

Yes according to your math....and a dictionary it is tailgating.....